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COOL POWER OR OMEGA

Old 01-25-2011, 05:36 PM
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beberly540
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Default COOL POWER OR OMEGA

Ive been using Omega fuels for years, i like the castor synthetic mix... Now my question is cool power ismuch more expensive than omega... (overseas)Ive alsomixed my own fuels with klotz.I would likesome others thoughts on these fuels.. Now ive NEVER has an engine fail with omega and i have an OS 46 fx that is almost 10 years oldand a Thunder tiger .40 ABC (my first)that is almost 16 years old and both are still running strong today.. now i would like to hear some others opinions please... Now i like opinions and have been flying for 16 years and i dont want a "know it all" who doesnt know it all to tell me i need to switch.. thanks.
Old 01-26-2011, 02:49 AM
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proptop
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

You're asking for opinions on "the great oil debate"...!?

I like some Castor in my fuels...so...IMO...stick with what's been working well for you for all those years...why switch?

If you want some reading material, go to the Glow Engines forum and try a search on the topic of oils...(get a cup of coffee, or some popcorn, or etc. 'cause you'll be there a while )
Old 01-26-2011, 03:29 AM
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TimBle
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

for ABC/N engines i prefer a bit of castor

if its ringed then Coolpower is the way to go.

Old 01-26-2011, 05:14 AM
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beberly540
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

thanks, good comments.. another thing, i bought 4 galllons of FA3 fuel from a guy for about 5 bucks, figured i couldnt turn it down.. now what is FA3 fuel? does it contain 0% nitro? thats what i am assuming but not sure. Someother guy told me that so...thanks
Old 01-26-2011, 05:16 AM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

Just my thoughts on fuel
I run Omega 15% unlessif it's a large 2 stroke I drop it to 5%.. A lot of your china 4 strokes run a steel liner and a iron ring. The castor actually glazes this surface over with a hard, very slick film, that these type of porous metals benefit from. It also works well in the higher end engines also, so to keepthings simple I just buy 15% Omega in most everything. The down side is the castor bakes on the engine overtime.
The only down side to straight syn, is it,s lower flash point which is not a problem for many that use it. I have no problem using CoolPower, just prefer to stay with what I always use.. As others have suggested they add a little oil, or castor, just for added insurance.
Old 01-26-2011, 07:12 AM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

For the last 25 years I have been running 10% Omega in all of my engines, .25 through 1.20, 2 stroke and 4 stroke. For engine break in I add 2 oz of castor to a gallon of fuel to increase the oil percentage to 18%. Doing this I have never had an engine failure or, for that matter, gum up. Back when I had engines with cast iron pistons, I ran 20% to 25% all castor fuel. I also run the engine dry at the end of the day and use after run oil (Performance Specialties' Ultra Oil). If I am going to be storing an engine for a long time, I load it up with Ultra Oil and bag them. I have stored engines for years this way without one locking up or developing rust.

Bruce
Old 01-26-2011, 07:36 AM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

Thanks...
Old 01-26-2011, 08:20 AM
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ES CONTROL
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

I have found that What I was thinking, or what I was going to do first before asking someone, was right. So save your money and you will be happier 
than if you listen to every one else.
Old 01-26-2011, 08:22 AM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

ORIGINAL: beberly540
i dont want a "know it all" who doesnt know it all to tell me...
You probably shouldn't have asked anyone in the RC hobby then.

For what it is worth, I run Coolpower exclusively and I have never had problem. I really like it. you'll get strong opinions either way. I say just try a few different things and use what you like and is easy to get.

Old 01-26-2011, 09:30 AM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

I have used both depending on what is on sale. For the most part I have stuck with Power Master until they closed there doors. I know, they are back but not stocked in any of my LHS. As long as it's 18% oil or better I have no problems with it. When I buy the Wild Cat that is 15% I just add a couple ounces of Klotz oil. To Castor or not to Castor, I have no problems either way. All my glow engines are still in fine shape no mater what brand I'm using. What ever is on sale seems to work. Right now I'm burning a fuel sold under the Hobby People name, I have been told it is just Wild Cat.
Old 01-26-2011, 12:46 PM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA


ORIGINAL: ChuckW

ORIGINAL: beberly540
i dont want a "know it all" who doesnt know it all to tell me...
You probably shouldn't have asked anyone in the RC hobby then.

For what it is worth, I run Coolpower exclusively and I have never had problem. I really like it. you'll get strong opinions either way. I say just try a few different things and use what you like and is easy to get.


Its a closely guarded secret that there is nothing wrong with Coolpower, its an excellent fuel and does what it's supposed to.The whole castor thing is just an old school habit thats hard ot kick , similar to smoking.
Old 01-27-2011, 04:40 AM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

I use both Cool Power and Omega fuel so I figure I am getting the best of both worlds.  When I buy fuel, I buy Cool Power but I win Omega fuel at my club meeting raffles all the time.  So I kind of switch back and forth between the two.
Old 01-27-2011, 08:18 AM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

It is the same brand so they have a bunch at stake if someone does not like either one. Where cool power will give you problems is trying to eek out every last rpm and run lean every so often. If your engines are tuned regularly for conditions then it is fine fuel. If you are a little lazy and run it lean, there is not the next level of protection which is the castor.
Old 01-27-2011, 03:11 PM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA


ORIGINAL: landeck

For the last 25 years I have been running 10% Omega in all of my engines, .25 through 1.20, 2 stroke and 4 stroke. For engine break in I add 2 oz of castor to a gallon of fuel to increase the oil percentage to 18%. Doing this I have never had an engine failure or, for that matter, gum up. Back when I had engines with cast iron pistons, I ran 20% to 25% all castor fuel. I also run the engine dry at the end of the day and use after run oil (Performance Specialties' Ultra Oil). If I am going to be storing an engine for a long time, I load it up with Ultra Oil and bag them. I have stored engines for years this way without one locking up or developing rust.

Bruce
definately the way i do it.
i am not quoting you to disagree with your post either......only want to point out that Dave has replaced his Ultra oil for regular old Mobil 1.....the original ultra had that familiar bean oil smell and was indeed worth the cost.
now when you buy oil from Dave, you are paying about 5 times what is cost him to fill up the bottles he ships. i was ticked on my last order and after going back and forth with Dave, he finally came clean and admitted that the original supplier was gone, but not ready to admit that the new oil was just Mobil 1........offered to give me my money back, but i have to get burned fro 100 bucks or more to throw a fit.
Old 01-27-2011, 03:13 PM
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summerwind
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

ORIGINAL: TimBle


ORIGINAL: ChuckW

ORIGINAL: beberly540
i dont want a ''know it all'' who doesnt know it all to tell me...


Its a closely guarded secret that there is nothing wrong with Coolpower, its an excellent fuel and does what it's supposed to.The whole castor thing is just an old school habit thats hard ot kick , similar to smoking.
that's the biggest piece of BS advice i have ever seen.......there's more to why we use Castor than you'll ever understand my friend,

Old 01-28-2011, 05:02 AM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA


ORIGINAL: summerwind


ORIGINAL: landeck

For the last 25 years I have been running 10% Omega in all of my engines, .25 through 1.20, 2 stroke and 4 stroke. For engine break in I add 2 oz of castor to a gallon of fuel to increase the oil percentage to 18%. Doing this I have never had an engine failure or, for that matter, gum up. Back when I had engines with cast iron pistons, I ran 20% to 25% all castor fuel. I also run the engine dry at the end of the day and use after run oil (Performance Specialties' Ultra Oil). If I am going to be storing an engine for a long time, I load it up with Ultra Oil and bag them. I have stored engines for years this way without one locking up or developing rust.

Bruce
definately the way i do it.
i am not quoting you to disagree with your post either......only want to point out that Dave has replaced his Ultra oil for regular old Mobil 1.....the original ultra had that familiar bean oil smell and was indeed worth the cost.
now when you buy oil from Dave, you are paying about 5 times what is cost him to fill up the bottles he ships. i was ticked on my last order and after going back and forth with Dave, he finally came clean and admitted that the original supplier was gone, but not ready to admit that the new oil was just Mobil 1........offered to give me my money back, but i have to get burned fro 100 bucks or more to throw a fit.

Interesting. I noticed the oil had changed with my last order but did not think much about it. What I did notice is that with the current oil it takes a little bit longer to clear the excess out of the engine when I start it for the first time for a day's flying.

Bruce
Old 01-28-2011, 09:02 AM
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summerwind
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

yeah it's sorta sad Bruce,
when i bought a couple Nelson's from Dave for Free Flight gas comp planes, i was treated to a total differnt experience.
with Henry retiring like he did, i'm sure it had an impact on Dave's business..............one thing that really led me to think "ripoff" was that even though Dave claimed that the original supplier of the Ultra Oil went under, he would not tell me who it was.........why would such a secret be of any importance to him?
Old 01-28-2011, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA


ORIGINAL: summerwind

ORIGINAL: TimBle


ORIGINAL: ChuckW

ORIGINAL: beberly540
i dont want a ''know it all'' who doesnt know it all to tell me...


Its a closely guarded secret that there is nothing wrong with Coolpower, its an excellent fuel and does what it's supposed to.The whole castor thing is just an old school habit thats hard ot kick , similar to smoking.
that's the biggest piece of BS advice i have ever seen.......there's more to why we use Castor than you'll ever understand my friend,

Lol, responded like a true smoker. Try to make me understand. And try not to repeat the usual castor protects on a lean run excuse.
Old 01-28-2011, 12:43 PM
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summerwind
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

no point in it as you wouldn't understand....you do leave nice abrupt and rude replies to others though...........is it that bad over there?
Old 01-28-2011, 12:55 PM
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TimBle
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

rude? A simple request to aid my understanding rude? I think you don't know and that's why you try to make rudeness about me. Check your response to my post on castor being a bad habit. Trust if you a had a merit to your arguement I would understand. So I'll give you one more try. Tell me something about castor that will surprise me and convince me its the magic lube that the rc community believes it to be.
Old 01-28-2011, 01:05 PM
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summerwind
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

oh heck, i can't be mean to anyone,.....not majic, but you describe it as being non essential.

"I thought I would answer your plea for more information on castor oil and its "film strength", which can be a very misleading term. I have never really seen a satisfactory way to measure the film strength of an oil like castor oil. We routinely use tests like the Falex test, the Timken test or the Shell 4-ball test, but these are primarily designed to measure the effect of chemical extreme pressure agents such as are used in gear oils. These "EP" agents have no function in an IC engine, particularly the two-stroke model engine types.

You really have to go back to the basics of lubrication to get a better handle on what happens in a model engine. For any fluid to act as a lubricant, it must first be "polar" enough to wet the moving surfaces. Next, it must have a high resistance to surface boiling and vaporization at the temperatures encountered. Ideally the fluid should have "oiliness", which is difficult to measure but generally requires a rather large molecular structure. Even water can be a good lubricant under the right conditions.

Castor oil meets these rather simple requirements in an engine, with only one really severe drawback in that it is thermally unstable. This unusual instability is the thing that lets castor oil lubricate at temperatures well beyond those at which most synthetics will work. Castor oil is roughly 87% triglyceride of ricinoleic acid, [ (CH3(CH2)5CH(OH)CH2CH=CH(CH2)7COO)3(OC)3H5 ], which is unique because there is a double bond in the 9th position and a hydroxyl in the 11th position. As the temperature goes up, it loses one molecule of water and becomes a "drying" oil. Another look at the molecule. Castor oil has excellent storage stability at room temperatures, but it polymerizes rapidly as the temperature goes up. As it polymerizes, it forms ever-heavier "oils" that are rich in esters. These esters do not even begin to decompose until the temperature hits about 650 degrees F (343 deg C). Castor oil forms huge molecular structures at these elevated temperatures - in other words, as the temperature goes up, the castor oil exposed to these temperatures responds by becoming an even better lubricant!

Unfortunately, the end byproduct of this process is what we refer to as "varnish." So, you can't have everything, but you can come close by running a mixture of castor oil with polyalkylene glycol like Union Carbide's UCON, or their MA 731. This mixture has some synergistic properties, or better properties than either product had alone. As an interesting sidelight, castor oil can be stabilized to a degree by the addition of Vitamin E (Tocopherol) in small quantities, but if you make it too stable it would no longer offer the unusual high temperature protection that it did before.

Castor oil is not normally soluble in ordinary petroleum oils, but if you polymerize it for several hours at 300 degrees F (149 deg C), the polymerized oil becomes soluble. Hydrogenation achieves somewhat the same effect.

Castor oil has other unique properties. It is highly polar and has a great affinity for metal surfaces. It has a flash point of only 445 degrees F (229 deg C), but its fire point is about 840 degrees F (449 deg C)! This is very unusual behavior if you consider that polyalkylene glycols flash at about 350-400 degrees F (176-204 deg C)and have a fire point of only about 550 degrees F (288 deg C), or slightly higher. Nearly all of the common synthetics that we use burn in the combustion chamber if you get off too lean. Castor oil does not, because it is busily forming more and more complex polymers as the temperature goes up. Most synthetics boil on the cylinder walls at temperatures slightly above their flash point. The same activity can take place in the wrist pin area, depending on engine design.

Synthetics also have another interesting feature - they would like to return to the materials from which they were made, usually things like ethylene oxide, complex alcohols, or other less suitable lubricants. This happens very rapidly when a critical temperature is reached. We call this phenomena "unzippering" for obvious reasons. So, you have a choice. Run the engine too lean and it gets too hot. The synthetic burns or simply vaporizes, but castor oil decomposes into a soft varnish and a series of ester groups that still have powerful lubricity. Good reason for a mix of the two lubricants!

In spite of all this, the synthetics are still excellent lubricants if you know their limitations and work within those limits. Used properly, engine life will be good with either product. Cooked on a lean run, castor oil will win every time. A mix of the two can give the best of both worlds. Most glo engines can get by with only a little castor oil in the oil mix, but diesels, with their higher cooling loads and heavier wrist pin pressures, thrive on more castor oil in the mix.

Like most things in this old life, lubricants are always a compromise of good and bad properties. We can and do get away with murder in our glo engines because they are "alcohol cooled" to a large degree. Diesels, though, can really stress the synthetics we use today and do better with a generous amount of castor oil in the lubricant mix. Synthetics yield a clean engine, while castor oil yields a dirty engine, but at least now you know why! "
Old 01-28-2011, 01:13 PM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

please no links. Explain. Links simply illustrate that you don't know and need others to assist. Explain in your own words why you believe castor is essential. No more links, you have used up your credits.
Old 01-28-2011, 01:15 PM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA


ORIGINAL: TimBle

please no links. Explain. Links simply illustrate that you don't know and need others to assist. Explain in your own words why you believe castor is essential. No more links, you have used up your credits.
why, you don't want to read?

i'm more interested in your explanation why castor should not be used?.......got one?
Old 01-28-2011, 01:37 PM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

that's not your words, tut tut.Castor's wonderful polymerisation at temp also creates deposits or varnish in an engine. Those deposits affect the engines running through hot spots. Also rolling bearings were not designed to work with oils that become physically more viscous as heat is added. At a point the rollers no longer roll, they slide, increasing wear. Fine in a busted engine where castor is fine. Most modern engines want to be clean and use rolling bearings. Castor is archaic for these engines.Not please respond with your own thoughts not the very correct observations of a fellow petroleum engineer.
Old 01-28-2011, 02:24 PM
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Default RE: COOL POWER OR OMEGA

Heh heh heh...what'd I tell ya...?

"The Great Oil Debate"...

Heh heh heh...

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