greatlakesgunny

My Feedback: (8)

Hi all, I'm looking foursome advice from you guys with more experience with the big stuff.
So here's the scenario
14-16 pound 3d plane
I want to set this up with nominal throws and a less than huge engine for general sport flying.
Yeah I know "then why'd you get a 3d plane?"
Answers
1: I got a good deal on it
2: Rock solid handling, stays where you put it, I like that, reminds me of a beloved ugly stick from the 80's
3: It looks cool
4: Cuz I want to
5: If I wanted to hover, I'd dust off my VERTI-bird

Before anyone asks, I've got plenty of air time under my belt, mostly with smaller glow stuff.
My question is....
Will a saito 1.80 fly this bird?
Remember sport flying, not 3D.

Opinions, anyone?
Bueller?
Bueller?
Bueller?

greatlakesgunny

My Feedback: (8)

P.S.   

jetmech05

In a word NO. You'd be under powered with a 1.80...14 to 16 Lbs is more in the 50CC range...I fly bigger airplanes myself, Love gas no more glow for me, Like you I don't 3D. Perhaps when my wife gets back on her feet I'll IMAC

jetmech05

Hey Greatlakes What's with the Gunny in your name? You a Marine?

greatlakesgunny

My Feedback: (8)

Not a marine, a gunsmith.


I've been trying to read up on things like static thrust numbers and things and from what I've seen people claim up to 17 pounds of thrust with the big saito, one has to wonder how much these numbers have been inflated, or how many peyote buttons the guys have had before typing. I also have noticed how much the guys at the field seem to over engine everything these days and it ain't proper unless it'll go vertical....for example a few years ago I was flying a 40 size big stick with an OS 25fx, in a word it was graceful and powerful enough to do anything I wanted, it was only AFTER they saw it was a tiny 25 that they had issues. For what it's worth, In the 80's I built a Midwest little stik, smaller span, 1/2 pound heavier than the GP 40 version and it was a beast with an HB25. Not trying to poo poo the advice given here by anybody, which is greatly appreciated, just stating my thoughts. It seems to me that we've forgotten how to fly on the wing. 'course I could be mistaken, I have been wrong before.





Carpe scrotum

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Notice the Bipe on the wall, it is 16 pounds and was flown in IMAA events for a few years using an OS 1.20 FS pumper for power. Very under powered!!!! But it flew scale until you wanted to do a nice loop or something with any vertical in it. You don't need to fly 3-D to fly the 3-D planes but you still need to think about the power to fly a 3-D plane as an IMAC. A 1.80 just isn't the answer, it will fly the plane though, just not well. Take a little look at something like the DLE 55, even the DLE 30 has more power then the Saito 1.80.
Just take a look at other people flying the same size plane and what they have for power, bet you won't find a Saito 1.80 in any of them. I have a very nice 2.4 40cc Brison that would work but it's as small as I would go.

jester_s1

If you've just got to turn a 3D plane into a putt putt sporter go ahead I guess. Just understand that the biggest issue you're going to have in underpowering it will be getting into stalls on windy days that you don't have enough juice to power through. Me, I'd start scanning the market and look for someone wanting to trade a sport plane that's designed to fly like you want it to instead of trying to make this one do what it was not designed to do. That said, the GP website says an OS 1.60 2 stroke is a good match for it as a sport plane, so I'd expect it to fly ok with a Saito 1.80. Saitos are pretty close to matching 2 strokes for power, so once you find the right prop I suppose it will do what you're wanting it to do. Still, I would be on the lookout for a plane that has the planform, control surface sizes, and airfoil to do the kind of flying you want it to do.

greatlakesgunny

My Feedback: (8)

I've seen one flown with the OS160, seemed like it had enough poop to me, I guess I really wanted to know how the saitos perform compared to the 2strokers.

jester_s1

As always, the 4 stroke has more torque and turns less RPM so you'll run a bigger prop to get the same forward speed. It will make less horsepower than the same size 2 stroke, but Saitos have a reputation for being closer in power than most. That said, the aforementioned 30cc gasser (or a little bigger depending on exactly which 30cc we're talking about) will be a lot cheaper to operate.

jetmech05

Hey Gunny....the throttle is not an on off switch....the more power the engine has the less it has too work just to putt putt around, the less work the longer it'll last.
I like vertical lines I don't need to accelerate in the vertical but I like to be able to do vertical.
I live by the line that says Better to have the power and not need it than to need the power and not have it. No one says you have to fly it full power but power can sure save you
Just some food for thought Good Flyin

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

A 3-D plane is just a light weight with over size controls. Go to an IMAC event and you will see the same planes being used but with the correct size engine. The OS 1.60 produces quite a bit more beans then the Saito 1.80. The 1.80 is a 30cc but to try to compare it to a gasser is apples and oranges. The big glow engines require feeding too and at $25.00+ for a gallon of fuel you will get sick of feeding it. You can get a new DLE 55 for a couple hundred bucks, they are cheaper then glow engines and only cost about $4.00 a gallon to operate.
In my area the Saito was the number one glow engine, our local hobby shops carried them. Now I'm one of the very few people using the bigger four stroke glows, I use YS. The DLE gas engines have taken over and the Saitos are always being sold, or trying to be sold. Now we are even seeing 15 and 17cc gas engines on the market to replace the 60 size engines. The glow engine manufactures and the glow fuel manufactures are pricing themselves out of the market.
Try to do a good trade if you can or go ahead and use you Saito to just putt putt around in the sky on calm days. The Saito will work for that.

greatlakesgunny

My Feedback: (8)

Good point,  switch power for the word gun and you have my philosophy too.  I'll be sure to let you guys know what I decide and how it works out, I'm usually the first to admit when I'm wrong, so y'all will hear that too, so far my plan is to assemble the beastie, then see how much weight is needed to balance her out, then make a more refined choice of engines from there.    

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

I fly an Extra 260 that weights wet 13.2 lbs. This machine is powered by a Saito 2.20 4S and it is setup for IMAC. Combination is perfect.

hsukaria

I flew a Giant Big Stick with a Saito 1.8. It was good sport flying, but not much vertical. It weighed 14 lbs. I switched to a gas engine for more power and economy. Just my experience. The Saito 1.8 was nice, but not for hauling 14 lbs. Also, think about balancing the CG, you will either balance it with a heavy gas engine, or get a light glow engine and add ballast. I prefer a bigger engine over ballast weight.

MTK

Greetings Carpe Scrotum..."Tis I, TestiCleez...

Never have too many options; like apples and oranges, they are both fruit and they both make juice.

I agree with GB. Get one of the newer gassies such as DLE35R, OS33GT, PTE36R, even the DLE55. They are all relatively inexpensive and all will run circles around the Saito 180 4s in terms of useful power. Their field manners are superb and they run on cheap to buy and maintain petrol. Gas power is simply far easier on the pocketbook to maintain. Bearing replacements become things of the past. You just need to pay attention to oil content and provide some common sense cooling to the engine

jchorsejeff

Completly agree. Go with a gas engine. I've had great luck with the smaller Dle engines and use DA on the bigger planes. The new dle 35 is getting good reviews.

Jeff

rglgatortail

My Feedback: (7)

I suppose if you must you can get you your saito 1.80 engine that you have been looking at and it will fly the plane in a non 3D fashion. That saito 1.80 will get the plane in the air and will do all kinds of wifferdeals but dont expect long vertical lines, the plane will run out of steam on the vertical with the saito 1.80. What about the saito 2.20? If that price tag is not within your price range then yeah you will need to consider a DLE 30 or wait till late august to get the DLE 35. Also consider looking around Youtube to see if anyone else has the plane that you are wanting to get to see how they have theirs set up and see if they talk about what engine they are using so there is some food for thought. Good luck. PM me if you wanna consider a 30cc Super Tigre two stroke with pitts muffler I'll make you a good deal and any questions that you may have about the motor.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

To show you a good deal on a Super Tigre, I gave away a 20!! Under powewred fuel hogs. If you have to pay the shipping cost you over paid.

rglgatortail

My Feedback: (7)

I take it you dont like Super Tigres? I have a lot of respect for them and myself as well as my dad are the only ones in my club that can tune them and run them. Under powered fuel hogs? I dont have any experience with anything bigger than the 2300 or the 1.4 and that motor is a Hoss meaning that this motor will move my Ultra Sport 1000 at nice speed and unlimited vertical, but i dont know what the thrust is on this motor one day I will have to find out.

The 30cc motor that i was referring to is a 30cc engine that my fellow flyer dont like glow engines and went to gas powered but before he took out the motor from the Great Planes Giant U Can DO it had unlimited vertical and would hover said plane at just about half throttle. Now the fuel economy was somewhere in the 2 ounces a minute neighborhood which is about the same as a DA 150 but costs from gas per min verses glow fuel per minute yeah that is the difference but no gas engine will produce the power that a glow engine of the same displacement will guaranteed.

Frank Ts Stuff

My Feedback: (130)

You guys are a little crazy with your power requirements! I flew a Top Flite T-34 (16#'s) with an O.S. .91 with power to spare!!!! The guys who says 14-16 # planes need a 50cc engine, what?!?!? I am a scale flyer so maybe the 3D world is different when it come to power requirements but when it comes to flying normal (like make it fly like an AIRPLANE!) then a Saito 1.80 is PLENTY of power.....

From Model Airplane News Top Gun 2007:
First in Pro-Am Sport went to Sean Curry and his 1/5 scale, 80-inch-span Top Flite T-34 Mentor. It’s powered by an O.S. .91 2-stroke engine and has Robart retracts. (Photo by Palmer Johnson.)

greatlakesgunny

My Feedback: (8)

Sean I may have met you once when I worked for Century Jet in Louis-ville, it drives kentuckians nuts when I say it that way.  I know I met Frank while there as well as a bunch of other really cool guys.

chymas

My Feedback: (1)

I have a 16 lb Ultimate biplane with a DLE 55, this thing will hover at 1/2 throttle and has unlimited vertical.  When I first got it, it had a Zenoha G-38 and it flew very scale, had OK power and would do all the basic maneuvers.  I would recommend a DLE 30 or 35.

Texastbird

There is a Reactor around here that started its life with an OS 1.60 in the nose. It flew fine but the owner got tired of feeding the thirsty glow engine. It was passed on to the new owner and it wound up with a DLE 55. He is not a 3d pilot but has a good time sport flying this plane. The DLE is happy just flying around at low throttle settings, it doesn't care. I have a Saito 1.80 in a scale plane almost as big as the Reactor and it has plenty of power. I'm sure it would fly the Reactor just fine except for the 3d maneuvers.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

NO, I'm not a fan of the Super Tigres at all. I had the 2300 in a 100 inch Decathlon I picked up in a trade. I'm also not into ARFs at all so I ended up giving the fuel hog away and traded the plane for a couple gallons of 15%.
A SCALE Reactor?? How would that be flown at a scale meet? I would guess like an Extra or Sukhoi and able to fly the IMAC without having to do a dive before doing a loop. I go gas after 1.20 glow but it isn't anything against glow engines. I fly with YS and a big YS is very hard to beat power wise. The fuel bill is where I really start having problems. The Reactor is only a 160 size and the 1.80 should fly it OK if not with a lot of athorty. I flew my big over weight pig of a Bipe at IMAA events and it flew very scale as long as I didn't try anything like a loop or stall turn. The full scale plane would do loops from level flight. The OS 1.20 four stroke in a 16 pound plane just wasn't enough. Going to a 30 cc gasser did do the trick though.
Nuff said, try the Saito and see what you think, the plane will fly with it and you could be happy with it? Your call.

Harold Staats

My two cents worth,
You can always throttle back, if you have too much power.
If all of a sudden you don't have enough there isn't a thing you can do but do your best to get out of a bad situation.
Those of you who have been flying for a few years know that "stuff happens" and many times I have saved my plane with raw power.
Power can many times make up for some of those dumb thumb moments.

DLEs are taking over at my field (membership around 200) because of their great preformance, light weight, low cost to puarchase, low cost to feed and dependability.

I have several Sato's and love them because of their sound, so am tempted to get one of ther new gassers!!
Does anyone have experience with one?