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A word of caution from the horses mouth

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A word of caution from the horses mouth

Old 12-06-2012, 04:57 PM
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nick.henderson
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Default A word of caution from the horses mouth

Cornell Michaels Kit Cutting
2208 Minerva
Westland Michigan 48186

http://www.kitcutter.com

All of the following is my own opinion based on my personal experience.

I have decided to name and shame this man as a charlatan, having paid for him to cut me a kit, paid in full, including postage cost from the USA to France. I find myself after a wait of 4 YEARS still without my kit or a refund, despite requesting both on innumerable occasions. The gentleman has taken my money under the guise of business, but not provided any goods or services. To me this is tantamount to theft!

The gentleman has lacked communication skills in that it is always me who contacts him, sometimes requiring the same mail sent 2-3 times to ellicit a response. E-mail count is above 150 on this subject.

Responses, wow the tales i've heard!
He has health issues, his legs, his heart, the swimming pool needs fixing, his best friend died, his son is in with a bad crowd, its cold, the workshop roof is leaking but to name a few. Most of his replies are filled with whats wrong in his life at the present time, rather than trying to address the situation. I considered contacting his local police department to start fraud charges and informed him of this. His reply was “go ahead, my family has a long connection with the police department here”

Below is a typical reply
Nick I don't have a problem answering back when I have the time as right now my family has no vehicle as both have broken down.One the new SUV needs a new motor and the other small Nissan needs so much repair to keep running its not funny .Along with my son needing to go to class and he has no ride in his first class in college and my wife has no ride to work.Me it has no bearing as I'm home and on disability. Along with the people who came to repair our pool and took what money there was and left a mess in the middle of the pool as it has no water in it. Along with a half dozen other problems as I had to replace the computer I had it had a virus and was down for about a week or so..So that probably was the time you sent me a email..Other than that they put me on high blood pressure medicine and I'm still alive...Regards,Michael

So thats you sorted, what about my kit, nothing?

The main difficulty is dealing with a person in another country, and allowing time to pass, so no recourse from finance provider (Paypal)

At first one is kind, sympathetic and tries to be understanding, hence allowing time to pass. The initial fob off's of “got to get work cleared away first so I can start on yours” seem plausible and logical. However these soon wear thin.

Recently I mailed him requesting either a refund or delivery of my kit within 8 weeks. Failure to do so would result in me taking whatever steps I felt necessary. I got no reply to this mail, so re-sent the same mail a week later, just to make sure it was received. Still no reply, so I guess he wants me to dis-credit him.

As well as posting this thread on as many forums as I can, I also am writing to the various designers, companies etc he is “accredited” to to inform them of his behaviour. I hope that they will withdraw their support for a man who takes money but delivers fresh air! I believe in almost any court this equates to fraud or theft


So beware of ever dealing with this gentleman, I fear it will not go well!

To the moderators, i hope this will be allowed to run, its not here-say, and is totally truthful as backed up by the sample mail i have attatched.

To all who read, thank you for your time!!
Old 12-06-2012, 05:12 PM
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invertmast
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Default RE: A word of caution from the horses mouth

I believe this is normal for him now.. which is a shame as I received a kit from him when he first opened up and the quality was very nice.. granted this was 8+ years ago
Old 12-06-2012, 06:09 PM
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sensei
 
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Default RE: A word of caution from the horses mouth

You would do better to just go with another kit cutter that you trust, obviously the guy is a dip s### and has no intension of ever doing the right thing.

Bob
Old 12-07-2012, 03:48 AM
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Luchnia
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Default RE: A word of caution from the horses mouth

I find it interesting that the pool is more important than his business! [X(] You may as well write you money off and move on and if the man has treated everyone like this, then others should take heed.
Old 12-07-2012, 04:39 AM
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jbdismukes
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Default RE: A word of caution from the horses mouth

DITTO. There are numerous examples out there of good beginnings that go bad for whatever reason (ie. LADO, one of the first electric retract manufacturers. My first set were excellent, but then "things happened". Fortunately for later customers, the French stepped in and took over.)

As stated above, probably your only option is towrite it offto experience and find an established, reliable cutter.

Jack
Old 12-07-2012, 06:56 AM
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kwblake
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Default RE: A word of caution from the horses mouth

This is from 2010. Don't know why I subscribed to it, but I did. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_97...tm.htm#9761863
Old 12-07-2012, 09:33 AM
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Default RE: A word of caution from the horses mouth

Nick, the best thing you could do at this point, is forget about the whole thing. It's a shame he will get away with this. But you are only hurting your self and wasting your time. There is not a lot the police can do in a situation like this. It is after all a civil matter. I doubt if they would see it as fraud even though that is what it boils down to. Even if you had a friend in the states that could take him to small claims court for you. He could just ignore the judgement and you would still not get paid.

david
Old 12-07-2012, 12:21 PM
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Gray Beard
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Default RE: A word of caution from the horses mouth

The beauty of this is people don't seem to do a search on sites like RCU before they place there orders, they wait until after the big rip off then seem to be able to post there problems. These types of things are always posted here whenever there is a problem, that's a good thing and allows others to do a search before they place an order.
Once it gets to this point it's too late to do anything about the problem other then warn others.
Sorry for your loss but thanks for the warning. There have been several other cutters doing the same thing over the years. It's like they have read these types of posts and just copied the others. There are also a few mail order hobby shops that haven't sent anything but still will take your order.
Do a background search before you place an order, it's time well spent.
Old 12-07-2012, 12:53 PM
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Default RE: A word of caution from the horses mouth

Get in contact with the IC3 and file a report. I have read several accounts on RC sites where folks did get some if not complete satisfaction .
It can't hurt at this point.

www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx


Old 12-07-2012, 01:26 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: A word of caution from the horses mouth

For those that don't know what IC3 is..............

Internet Crime Complaint Center
Old 12-13-2012, 03:57 AM
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nick.henderson
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Default RE: A word of caution from the horses mouth

To all that have replied, thanks for the input. To flyinwalenda and da rock, thanks for the info regarding the IC3 scheme. I am looking at going down this route.
Having contacted most of the designers associated with the gentlemans site and made them aware of the situation, the responses received are far from flattering for Mr Neal.
I will seek permission from the authors and post their replies on here.
Watch this space!!
Old 02-22-2013, 01:58 PM
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fujiman
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Default RE: A word of caution from the horses mouth

COME ON GUYS!!!!!!!!! give him a break!!!!! he cuts kits in his spare time and is NOT a full fledged full time business. he cuts kits out of his home. i had him cut a hughes H-1 kit for me and i am very pleased with it. i just sent him 3 other plans for him to cut. he hand cuts and finishes kit pieces, this i like because the pieces will take on ca glue better than laser cut pieces in my opinion. it takes him a while to cut kits in this fashion so you MUST be patient!!!!!!! i have called him and had very enjoyable conversions w/him!!!!!! i have found him to be honest. this has been my experience with him!!!!!!
Old 02-22-2013, 02:39 PM
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da Rock
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Default RE: A word of caution from the horses mouth

So we got the OP who says he ordered a kit 4 years ago and hasn't gotten it or a refund.

On the other hand we have the recent poster who has gotten what he ordered (apparently within the last year or so) and is ordering more.

Unfortunately, this is the internet and no way to know the truth. So...............

If you're interested in doing business with the guy, it would be sensible to get in touch with him and go over every detail of the transaction that matters to you so that you and the kit cutter are clear on what is expected.
Old 01-01-2014, 10:31 AM
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Hi Guys -
I will chime in here as well.
I have used Michael @ Kit Cutter on a number of occasions. I've had him cut me 5 different kits including a Pepino WACO YMF5, a Focke-Wulf TA152H, an upscale Ziroli Bearcat, a Christen Eagle II, and an upscale Brisighella StarDuster.
His kits are the finest quality out there, period. Yes, it takes longer to get the kits from him, but as 'fujiman' stated earlier, he does this in his spare time and not as a full time business. I keep coming back to Michael for the simple reason that his customer care is awesome. Talk about a guy who works with you on the plans and design.....Michael has built 2 kits for me as enlargements, which were the Bearcat and the Eagle. He makes good suggestions for the wood choices and asks about the type of engines to be used before cutting the bulkheads. Most cutters will work straight off the plans and not make any deviations. I don't find this to be helpful at all.
If you want something like a week turn-around time on a kit order then somebody else will be a better choice I suppose, but if you're like me and you want high quality then Michael is the best there is in my book.

Tom
Old 01-01-2014, 11:52 AM
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da Rock
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Originally Posted by Sundance2018 View Post
Hi Guys -
I will chime in here as well.
I have used Michael @ Kit Cutter on a number of occasions. I've had him cut me 5 different kits including a Pepino WACO YMF5, a Focke-Wulf TA152H, an upscale Ziroli Bearcat, a Christen Eagle II, and an upscale Brisighella StarDuster.
His kits are the finest quality out there, period. Yes, it takes longer to get the kits from him, but as 'fujiman' stated earlier, he does this in his spare time and not as a full time business. I keep coming back to Michael for the simple reason that his customer care is awesome. Talk about a guy who works with you on the plans and design.....Michael has built 2 kits for me as enlargements, which were the Bearcat and the Eagle. He makes good suggestions for the wood choices and asks about the type of engines to be used before cutting the bulkheads. Most cutters will work straight off the plans and not make any deviations. I don't find this to be helpful at all.
If you want something like a week turn-around time on a kit order then somebody else will be a better choice I suppose, but if you're like me and you want high quality then Michael is the best there is in my book.

Tom
Tom, it appears Michael does some jobs and blows off others. Do you have any idea, since you seem to have an in with the guy, why he would simply forget some jobs he's taken yet do others? It's not really a fair way to do business, especially if some jobs are 4+ years "late"?
Old 01-01-2014, 12:31 PM
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Are you guys talking about the same companies? There's Kit Cutters Inc and Kit Cutter.
Old 01-01-2014, 12:40 PM
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The Kit Cutter web page seems to be gone. Now there's only Kit Cutters Inc.
Old 01-01-2014, 02:32 PM
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Yes, there are two different "Kit Cutters" out there. I have never done business with Kit Cutters, Inc., but their website banner still clearly says that they are not accepting any new orders.
If you look up 'Cornell Michaels Kit Cutting' you will only find a business listing.
Whether you guys believe in him or not is of no affair of mine, but I will simply say that his health issues and problems he's had with his home and whatnot are totally legitimate. I feel bad for him that he's taken such a bad rap in the kit cutting world. He has had serious health issues and problems with his workshop to the point he had to stop cutting kits for quite awhile. His email accounts and website were hacked a while back and I believe that's what caused him to take down his website. For awhile there were highly fraudulent messages being sent out from his email address and it took awhile for that to get straightened out. Quite frankly, with all the crap he's had to put up with from the community I'm surprised he's still cutting kits, but I know he does it for the enjoyment of the hobby more than anything else and he has a good deal of respected colleagues that he partners with that help out with plans services, fiberglass parts and other a sundry things. Trust me, he doesn't make any real profit doing this work. He usually has to order the wood first (once he has received payment) before he has the ability to cut any kits and in a few cases he's taken in orders on trust I think w/o payment and then left high-n-dry when the dude decides he doesn't want the kit after-all.
He is a small time kit cutter, but I don't know why some people have had a fair share of difficulty dealing with him. I, too, at one time experienced some difficulty with getting a particular kit from him but that was because of his hacked website. Once he got things cleared up he got back on track and fulfilled his agreement. I've never had any issues since and have loved the kits he's made for me. Like I said, though, don't expect him to take an order one day and turn around a kit within a week or two. He doesn't stock kits like PCK or other places. He usually turns around my kits in the 6-8 month time-frame especially since it takes me a heck of a lot longer than that to build one and I am content with that. I just stay on top of it and send an email reminder every so often to ask how things are progressing.
As I said, though, think what you want to think and I would only recommend a good deal of upfront communication and understanding about the transaction details and how long it will take to get a kit cut before placing an order.

Tom

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