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Is this really necessary?

Old 06-02-2013, 10:42 AM
  #51  
YoungBuck74
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

If you have been flying for 5 years, and they want two weeks with a instructor, find another Club. If they have rules good for them, but they need to post the rules. Yes things can go wrong in a hurry! however they can go wrong with the experence Flyers as well. And you have been flying for 5 years,I think you are a "experence flyer". Enough said.
Old 06-02-2013, 11:13 AM
  #52  
HoundDog
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?


ORIGINAL: countilaw

As the Club Safety Officer for my club, we have rules designed to maintain the safety of others. They may and probably don't have any doubt with your credibility or your flying skills. It's just a rule where they can observe a new pilot not only in the air, but in the pit area as well. A method of instructing all NEW member as to their rules and the way they do things at the field.

Frank

I sure wish we had this at our club ... I wanted to make it mandatory that people prove their skills and make it retro to every one because of the BAD 30 year flyers we have ... The looked for a large tree and a rope to say the least. We know have a new member that has in less than 2 seasons crashed no less than 20 planes most on maiden or very shortly when he managed to get it back on the ground still in one price. last fall he cut off his right index finger spent 4 hours in surgery getting it reattached ... and no one does anything about it. oh well.
All I can say is if U want to fly go with the flow .... it ain't worth bucking the trend even if U are RIGHT.
Life is just too short to argue.

Old 06-02-2013, 12:56 PM
  #53  
on_your_six
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

One thing that I would have a problem with is if they tried to put me on a buddy box. I would take a simple foam plane/trainer out to show basic skill set, then progress...slowly to more advanced planes... remember.. they don't know you from Adam. Why should they risk their club on someone they just met? Don't show boat, just fly conservatively and let them build trust in your skills. Nobody wants to shepherd the new guy around... but you need to learn the local means and methods. If you make a friend out of the instructor, things will go easier on you everywhere else in the club.

Put my 30% scale planes and warplanes on a buddy box? No way... those can wait.. I am not there to provide a show.

Hey Groundhog... I know it seem frustrating... but as my good friend puts it; if they are crashing in an area of no danger to members, cars or buildings... that is OK. The cost will sort those guys out. If life is in danger and damages are occurring...something needs to be done.
Old 06-02-2013, 01:24 PM
  #54  
william-RCU
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

I agree with most these post buddy box your plane will he buy you new one if he has something go wrong??? Also this sound like to many micro management old timmer rules and politics. I would fly some where else. I have only ran across one club like this in 30+ years of flying. In Spokane Washington I tried to join one of the clubs there so I could fly with a new friend that flew there. I went through all there B.S. rules then even took time off work for there schedule. This took over a month they also had a vote at the next meeting if 1 of the other members said no then you could not join well 1 said no it wasn't at all my flying skills I had been flying since I was 8 he just had a personal problem. This was a waist of time and money. Plus I gained new friends there during the process so those went away also... Its funny people wonder why the hobby isn't attracting young new flyers every club seems to have a ass in the mix making our hobby not look appealing to new flyers or old flyers looking for a place to continue in the hobby.
Old 06-02-2013, 01:39 PM
  #55  
jefflangton
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

When I see a topic like this it makes me realize how lucky I am to have access to private land!!! Most clubs are mostly idiots anyway. I go to fly, if I wanted to be bothered by a dumbass I'd go to walmart.
Old 06-02-2013, 01:46 PM
  #56  
Live Wire
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?


ORIGINAL: jefflangton

When I see a topic like this it makes me realize how lucky I am to have access to private land!!! Most clubs are mostly idiots anyway. I go to fly, if I wanted to be bothered by a dumbass I'd go to walmart.
Clubs are not the Idiots, its some of the people in them, And Welcome to RC walmart
Old 06-02-2013, 03:14 PM
  #57  
Propworn
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?


ORIGINAL: jefflangton

When I see a topic like this it makes me realize how lucky I am to have access to private land!!! Most clubs are mostly idiots anyway. I go to fly, if I wanted to be bothered by a dumbass I'd go to walmart.
You’ve obviously made some club very happy with your choice I wonder if they realize how lucky they were.

Dennis
Old 06-02-2013, 03:14 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?


ORIGINAL: jefflangton

When I see a topic like this it makes me realize how lucky I am to have access to private land!!! Most clubs are mostly idiots anyway. I go to fly, if I wanted to be bothered by a dumbass I'd go to walmart.

This hobby for older guys especially is more about the comarodery than the flying. Also many clubs have a large investment in years and money in their flying site and one JACK ***** can screw that all up. We have flown on a private air port form the early 80's and the land was sold to a developer about 10 years ago. long story short the developer went bankrupt and the original owner didn't want the land back. The guy that had rented the crop land on the air port ended up buying it and was going to plow the airport under.
He had a son that was in a wheel chair since 11 and we had gotten him a plane AMA and life member ship in our club, made sure if he wanted to fly there was someone there to help him ... That jester Saved our Field and managed to keep the full scale guys flying also. U can never under estimate the value of good deeds can be to an R/C club and visversa the harm just one person can inflict with just one stupid act.
Just a note the 11 year old in the wheel chair is know 24 and still flies with us.
Old 06-02-2013, 04:04 PM
  #59  
100LOWLEAD
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

2 weeks?! I'd take a pair of wire cutters. Public land is public land. 5 years should be good enough for anybody. I can't stand these clubs run by a bunch of old guys who exercise their own rules just to assert themselves as the management & keep the young guys underneath, telling them what to do & how to do it. Our generation learns faster & we're generally better pilots. Get used to it! If we crash it's our own time & money wasted, not theirs so why the ____ do they care.
Old 06-02-2013, 04:26 PM
  #60  
Propworn
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

ORIGINAL: 100LOWLEAD

2 weeks?! I'd take a pair of wire cutters. Public land is public land. 5 years should be good enough for anybody. I can't stand these clubs run by a bunch of old guys who exercise their own rules just to assert themselves as the management & keep the young guys underneath, telling them what to do & how to do it. Our generation learns faster & we're generally better pilots. Get used to it! If we crash it's our own time & money wasted, not theirs so why the ____ do they care.
And you wonder why clubs have rules DUHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These guys are begining to smell like the wee people who live under bridges eh!!!!!! Can someone say TROLL
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:32 PM
  #61  
Live Wire
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

I wonder what he considers old 20 or 30
Old 06-02-2013, 05:18 PM
  #62  
lopflyers
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

Being safe is one thing, my club requires you to fly with an instructor by your side one time. If you fly and land safely you are clear.
2 weeks and a buddy box is propesterous, ridiculous and out of line.
Old 06-02-2013, 09:23 PM
  #63  
ira d
 
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

I can see no reason for wanting someone to be on probation for two weeks as many have already said a a flight or two and you should be good to go especialy
in light of the fact you have been a AMA member for five years. I would however like to know why the club feels itneeds to do this.
Old 06-03-2013, 03:08 AM
  #64  
Luchnia
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

ORIGINAL: ira d

I can see no reason for wanting someone to be on probation for two weeks as many have already said a flight or two and you should be good to go especialy
in light of the fact you have been a AMA member for five years. I would however like to know why the club feels it needs to do this.
I have been reading this thread and I tend to agree with this point of view. Why two weeks? Does that include flying every day and if so, why? You can train folks in less that two weeks, right? Paid training programs usually only take one week.

I think safety is the key and clubs should have enough wisdom to know when someone needs to be "cut loose" to fly. It should be judged properly per the individual. If they are ready then they are ready.

Can not a group of peers at the club make a simple judgment call? If not, I would be questioning their ability to run the club. Granted, it is their right to do as they wish, but that does not make it right

There are clubs that are over cautious and clubs that are under cautious. Somehow there has to be moderation and some common sense. I am in two clubs and they are night and day different. One basically has no rules and never has an issue and the other is rule burdened and something going on all the time. Cat and dog fights ensue at the heavily ruled club. Guess which club I fly at the most? It is a no brainer. [X(]

I edited this because I did not want anyone to think I would not respect a club rules or authority by what I posted.
Old 06-03-2013, 03:13 AM
  #65  
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

I have seen this before. I live in CT and joined a club in New Jersey so that I could fly down there when I went to visit family. This was about I will say 8 or 9 years ago. They had me do the same thing except I had to go to 3 club meeting and show that I was proficient in flying. At the time I was 21, so I reacted the same way you did. I was set back. It was also a major inconvenience for me because the meetings where on Thursday nights and I lived in CT. The good thing is that they considered club events as a meeting so I could go on Saturdays. But, to get to the point, all this probably was instated for my club and the one you want to join because of an incident that occurred or several for that matter. Somebody probably came in, said they could fly, and crashed into something or somebody. My club was in a park, so it somebody lost control there was a possibility it could fly beyond the woods and crash into something else. So, yeah, 2 weeks does sound a little extreme. And like somebody else asked; is it 14 days flying before your cleared or is it something else? The problem is trying to buck the system wont work. It will just make things harder for you. Also, I do not think you have a chip on your shoulder or anything like others are saying, mainly because I have been through the same thing. It is a pain for sure to deal with this. But, think on their side of the coin as well, something happened in the past that required them to do this and it changed the rules for everybody.
Old 06-03-2013, 03:17 AM
  #66  
on_your_six
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

They have something you want.... learn how to get what you want. You are not negotiating from a strong position here. Two weeks in the whole scheme of things is nothing.
Old 06-03-2013, 03:56 AM
  #67  
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?


ORIGINAL: Luchnia

ORIGINAL: ira d

I can see no reason for wanting someone to be on probation for two weeks as many have already said a flight or two and you should be good to go especialy
in light of the fact you have been a AMA member for five years. I would however like to know why the club feels it needs to do this.
I have been reading this thread and I tend to agree with this point of view. Why two weeks? Does that include flying every day and if so, why? You can train folks in less that two weeks, right? Paid training programs usually only take one week.

I think safety is the key and clubs should have enough wisdom to know when someone needs to be ''cut loose'' to fly. It should be judged properly per the individual. If they are ready then they are ready.

Can not a group of peers at the club make a simple judgment call? If not, I would be questioning their ability to run the club. Granted, it is their right to do as they wish, but that does not make it right

There are clubs that are over cautious and clubs that are under cautious. Somehow there has to be moderation and some common sense. I am in two clubs and they are night and day different. One basically has no rules and never has an issue and the other is rule burdened and something going on all the time. Cat and dog fights ensue at the heavily ruled club. Guess which club I fly at the most? It is a no brainer. [X(]

I edited this because I did not want anyone to think I would not respect a club rules or authority by what I posted.

We just heard one side of the story, and for all we know, it could be a Troll or maybe he does not know if in reality they will have him on a buddy box for 2 weeks. I bet they will be tired after having him on the BB twice... Our club asks from you 3 take off and 3 landings. If you can do that, you can fly. But, every club has the right to impose its own rules and regulations. Said that, not all enforce them to their full extent.

Go fly on the buddy box, go home

Go back next week, fly on the buddy box

Go home, you are done with the buddy box thing. They know you are safe.

Gerry

Gerry
Old 06-03-2013, 04:01 AM
  #68  
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

I can't believe anyone is questioning the rules of this club. I imagine it was established for good reason based on a previous experience with some know it all hot shot spouting that he was the greatest the world has ever seen just to watch him pile his 50cc Yak into someones car. You will be tested to prove yourself in everything you do in life, this is no different. Deal with it or move on.
Old 06-03-2013, 04:13 AM
  #69  
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

Sounds like an old boys club and they want to see if they might let you in; and they wonder why they can't get more peopleinterested in joining and why the club isdying.1-2 flights should suffice to tell anyone whether you can fly or not. Total nonsense! But if there is no other field then you are stuck. Our club only requires new pilots to be able to take off and land on your own and then your free to crash your planes as you see fitGood luck.
Old 06-03-2013, 05:05 AM
  #70  
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

For the most part you can sit back without saying anything and watch. Watch a new guy get ready to fly then watch him fly you should be able to tell if he's ok on his own. But it is not my club so you have 2 choices either go along with it or go somewhere else. The real question here is how qualified is the other guy? Do they supply a plane or is this a way for them to fly your plane
Old 06-03-2013, 05:23 AM
  #71  
koastrc
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

Knowledge and wisdom are two different things. Having a knowledge of a subject and the wisdom to use it is a bit difficult for many of us. In this case we know about some clubs and their rules. Should we not have the wisdom to seek out the reason for these rules. Many have said here that the OP has run into a club that has what seems to be a extreme rule. We have many responding to the rule based on their on personal knowledge of their given situation or experience.
Flying in our area is a year round proposition. We have all sorts of visitors. Many are what is known as snow birds. Others are in the military or here on temporary military assignment. We have a large Air guard training facility. Near by is a very large NASA complex. The point is we must stay flexible. The pay off for this flexibility is one of the best model aviation facilities around. The knowledge to run the club came from the experience of some older guys that made it happen. The wisdom is to run the club based on the knowledge we have and the flexibility to adjust we needed. We all find out in time that shooting from the hip is not knowledge or wisdom.
What appears at time to be good old boys in a lot of cases is good old boys. Sometime what appears to be good old boys is a group that has built something and do not want it torn down by some hip shooter. It takes all kinds to make a club. It takes a great deal of wisdom and patience to bring them all together in a positive way. A lot of times we can not find wisdom or patience, and then we get conflict.
Old 06-03-2013, 05:50 AM
  #72  
Propworn
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

I have had the pleasure of both sides the fence. I have flown independently when there were no near by clubs. I have also flown independently where there was a club nearby but for my own reasons I chose not to join. At present I belong to two local clubs one for over 20 years. I never had any particular feelings one way or another. Want to fly independently your choice. Join a club again your choice. I have found when someone bad mouths a club they usually are the problem child and the club is better off without your presence. Remember the club did not seek your august presence you approached them. I guarantee their operations will not skip a beat if you don't join. Better you go off by yourself and fly than make everyone in the club regret they ever bothered to let you in. Thank goodness the pissers and moaners are in the very small minority. 99.9% of the modelers I have ever met have been absolutely great. Even during some of the most intense competition you always see the competitors helping each other out. To that .1 % who are just never going to be happy try not pop a gasket.

Dennis
Old 06-03-2013, 06:49 AM
  #73  
P47Tbolt
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?


ORIGINAL: PACKERBACKER

I recently moved to attend college & intended to continue flying so I don't get out of practice. I found a local group of modelers & went through some formalities but now they want me to fly with an instructor for 2 weeks to verify that I'm a safe pilot. I'm 22, been in the hobby for 5 going on 6 years & have flown everything from a giant scale Yak to a Piper Cub. I informed them that I was experienced & listed what I've owned & flown, yet they still at the end said I'd have to go through this process. Are there AMA regulations about this? There is a strip nearby that is seasonally used by cropdusters...does this affect anything? I don't know that I'll give up on this club but I am a bit resentful that my experience isn't credible.

Does the club supply an airplane with a buddy system or does the club want you to fly your planes with the instructor?
what is going to happen if the club wants you to use your planes with an instructor assistance and he takes over at one time and
crashes your plane.I think one flight on a club supplied plane with buddy box to show you can basically fly,then you fly 2-3 flights with your
plane while the instructor only observes with no buddy box.Then as long as all goes well you should be able to join the club.
2 weeks is ridiculous when you know you can fly and know you can demonstate it.just my 2 cents
Old 06-03-2013, 07:28 AM
  #74  
sensei
 
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

There is nothing wrong with going back through a refresher pit area etiquette, and flying safety course with the new to you club instructor, many of us go through refresher safety courses at work every year. If I wanted to join that club bad enough I would just invest in a knock around trainer type airplane to buddy box with if that is a requirement and have a little fun and make friend along the way. I stated I would invest in the knock around airplane because I certainly would not allow anybody to possess the command decision on the destiny of one of the airplanes I normally fly unless I know them very well and completely trust there abilities as an accomplished pilot.

Bob
Old 06-03-2013, 07:33 AM
  #75  
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Default RE: Is this really necessary?

I can't stand these clubs run by a bunch of old guys who exercise their own rules just to assert themselves as the management & keep the young guys underneath, telling them what to do & how to do it. Our generation learns faster & we're generally better pilots. Get used to it! If we crash it's our own time & money wasted, not theirs so why the ____ do they care.
I agree with you to an extent , my club is great its run like a golf course, fun and stress free no club meeting to waste your time, or hear people complain or come up with unnecessary rules, the rules are standard AMA rules, basic rules are no flying over the flight line and no planes in the viewing/guest area and you get a combo to the gate and you come as you please 24/7 and safety is #1, be responsible. We have 2 safety officers that give you a quick run down of the club ama rules and if you need help its there. Anyone who has been flying for more than a year can tell within 5min if you know what your doing. If you like over bearing rules, excessive power abuse , and constant heckling from people in the pits and Monday morning quarterbacking from know it alls, then our/my club is not for you. Too many clubs get carried away with excessive and exaggerated rules and regulations under the guise of safety and become overly complicated. Just my humble opinion from experience the K.I.S.S method should be remembered. Keep It Simple Stupid=dumb proofing it for all.

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