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Can you fly in 3 acres? Should I give up (or move house, lol)

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Can you fly in 3 acres? Should I give up (or move house, lol)

Old 12-19-2021, 02:24 PM
  #26  
Lee Taylor
 
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I was practicing on my sim earlier today. And you are welcome Treozen. Like I said, I have no regrets with my sim purchase. Thanks for the update. I am happy you like it. I felt sure you would.

Things change significantly at the field. Like I mentioned earlier, the wind can be a significant problem. Also never fly the plane between you and the sun for obvious reasons. Your psychology changes at the field. When you are getting ready to push the throttle for the take-off run, you have to accept the fact that you may crash. Easy to do on the sim. No concern about crashing on the sim. Anyways, it is all do-able, it just takes time.

My current sim practice is to fly straight down the runway at a comfortable altitude. Made a mental note of the center point. Turn around towards the end of the field and get back on the imaginary line running length wise up and down the field. At the bare minimum orient the plane so it is headed towards the imaginary center point. Always try to fly through that imaginary center point (this is just me training me). I allow myself three type turns. An immelmann turn, a stall turn, or a banked turn. Always coming back to that center point.

Also been practicing inverted flight. I have come to realize why I have been so bad at it on the sim. I flew inverted all the time when flying control line. So I started thinking about that. I was thinking back to how I held in a lot of down elevator, and why did I do that? Well it is required because the wing produces lift. So when inverted (while flying control line) you must hold in down elevator to counter act the lift acting in a downwards direction. As soon as had that thought I started holding in down elevator while inverted on the sim. It works like a charm. The main thing is to REMEMBER you are inverted! So anyways.... practice, practice, practice.

I can fly knife edge fairly well but I need to learn how to make the plane go in the direction I want while in the knife edge orientation. More practice required

Rolls are simple but need to eliminate the corkscrew effect... I am thinking the corkscrew effect is caused by wing lift also.

I put three acres on the local flying field just for fun


https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/1/ed...638351698&z=19
.

Last edited by Lee Taylor; 12-19-2021 at 03:02 PM.
Old 12-19-2021, 02:35 PM
  #27  
Treozen
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Originally Posted by Lee Taylor View Post
An immelmann turn, a stall turn, or a banked turn..... inverted flight..... knife edge...Rolls..... corkscrew

LOL - I may be the dullest RC flyer if I ever get out in the field - I just like watching the plane fly back an d forth, close to the ground, at a slow and steady pace....lol.....flying inverted.....not a trick for me ;-)
Old 12-19-2021, 02:53 PM
  #28  
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Treozen, Good to hear you are you are having fun. I too am a big fan of simulators as a learning tool for beginners, especially for helicopters. The actual flying of a real model is slightly different from flying on a sim, but the sim is certainly a valuable learning aid. I personally don't have a simulator, but then I've been flying from almost the stone age.
Sounds like you also understand that a park flyer size model might be better suited for your proposed flying field. You might look into the foam core board airplanes from Flight Test, as more of a disposable platform to learn on. Park flyers do have their wind limitations, but if you will check out your local model club, you might find that they fly indoor somewhere, where you might only have an HVAC system to contend with. I'll be flying indoor tomorrow with my 13 year old granddaughter who learned to fly indoors before flying outdoors.
Old 12-19-2021, 07:08 PM
  #29  
Lee Taylor
 
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Originally Posted by Treozen View Post
flying inverted.....not a trick for me
Not today but one never knows what tomorrow will bring. Here is the thing. When you start doing loops, and you have completed half a loop, the plane is inverted. So you are already there. We use to fly inverted in control line to keep us from getting dizzy.

The sim is no substitute for the field. BUT, it is a great tool in my opinion. You said you are going in the electric direction. Be careful with the batteries. I have heard some horror stories. I am happy sticking to what I know, which is glow engines. I may give gasoline engines a whirl one day. Time will tell. I am a come-back modeler. I was away for 40 years. It has taken me some time to psychologically adjust to what the industry is today.

What you are going to have to do is to get a plane ready to fly. That takes some time. You will notice yourself improving on the sim as time passes. At some point you will be ready to take it to the field. Or maybe not. That is not a decision that needs to be made now
Old 12-20-2021, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Taylor View Post
At some point you will be ready to take it to the field. Or maybe not. That is not a decision that needs to be made now
Yep - no rush. I did build a scale approximation of my property in the simulator, barn and all. I've decided the options for flying at home really are limited to the two smaller planes - The Sports Cub S 2 and the UMX Turbo Timber. The Sports Cub is really the best fit, but I am still concerned about wind. The Turbo Timber is only a few inches bigger, and has some interesting flight options (flaps) but the biggest advantage is the big ol turf tires - I feel like the little wheels on the Sports Cub will get stuck in the uneven scrub. Both planes can fly slow, take off in about two feet (or less for the Timber) and practically land themselves. The UMX Turbo Timber will be more of an initial investment - since the Cub comes RTF @ around $160 and it'll cost about 4 times that to get into the Timber, as it only comes as BNF. So things to think about.

Did I try the T-28 Trojan? Yep - and I'd say most flights were successful, but I hit the barn, the ground, the trees....a lot....several planes worth. It just needs to fly too fast, in such a small space (with obstacles), and I'm not there skill-wise. Though to be honest, even if I could reliably fly it in the space, its not much fun - you end up turning every 5 - 7 seconds. I think the T-28 Trojan will be a great plane for later - and for a proper airfield.
Old 12-21-2021, 09:07 AM
  #31  
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People have different views on crashing. My view is that it is inevitable. We don't want it. We think to the contrary. We pretend that it is not in the cards. In my world, the crash eventually happens. With that in mind I make my planes very flight worthy, but I do not spend endless amounts of time producing a pretty, near perfect, model. My problem in the past was that I would eventually take home something that needed so much repair that the time was better spent building a new one. So I threw the old ones out which now I wish I had kept.

The only problem at the field will be certain people. When you visit flying fields you find ALL types. It is kinda like living in a neighborhood. We are attracted to certain types. You also learn when people gather. A flying field is often vacant, I think the main thing to ascertain is the idiot with little experience that thinks he is an expert. Put a large very fast model in his hands and he becomes dangerous. Long story short there are all types. I think learning the people at the field is probably the biggest challenge. All it requires is that you mingle
Old 12-21-2021, 09:20 AM
  #32  
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Something to think about and practice are "dead stick landings". Flying electric your concern will be battery life. Flying glow the concerns are flame-out, running out of fuel, or receiver battery going dead. Dead stick landings are different than landings under power. You will find this out by experience. They are an excellent opportunity to crash. When the power stops you need to land immediately because a stall is soon to happen. You cannot afford to set-up a landing, you do not have time, you must land immediately
Old 12-21-2021, 01:47 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Lee Taylor View Post
Something to think about and practice are "dead stick landings"......... or receiver battery going dead.
With all due respect to the point being presented, , ,

No matter how good you are at deadstick landings, loosing receiver power means that no matter how well you twiddle the TX sticks, the plane ain't gonna be following along ......
Old 12-21-2021, 03:58 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Lee Taylor View Post
Something to think about and practice are "dead stick landings". Flying electric your concern will be battery life. Flying glow the concerns are flame-out, running out of fuel, or receiver battery going dead. Dead stick landings are different than landings under power. You will find this out by experience. They are an excellent opportunity to crash. When the power stops you need to land immediately because a stall is soon to happen. You cannot afford to set-up a landing, you do not have time, you must land immediately
Good point Lee!
In my buddy box instructing, after a student is good at landing and taking off, I don't sign off on him until he has done a few flights practicing dead sticks. At a random place in the sky, I have him chop the throttle to zero (or lowest idle for a gas/glow) plane. And then try to make it back for a landing. Does not have to be on the runway, or from the "proper" direction. And he does not have to actually touch - once he is in a position to clearly land (or not), he can throttle up and do it again.
Old 12-21-2021, 04:02 PM
  #35  
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Yes. To restate the obvious, dead receiver battery = no response to control inputs. Twiddle all you want, it will not help.
Old 12-21-2021, 04:19 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Lee Taylor View Post
Yes. To restate the obvious, dead receiver battery = no response to control inputs. Twiddle all you want, it will not help.
For sure, there will be incidents like that (mechanical failure, that sort of thing) that will try a Pilot's patience, but being practiced and prepared for things like a (controlled) deadstick landing is a great suggestion on your part. Anything that helps prevent the infamous "smoking hole in the ground" is a skill well worth perfecting
Old 12-21-2021, 04:35 PM
  #37  
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Well things have changed SO much. We did not have telemetry 40 years ago. We had a measuring device we used to measure receiver battery voltage. We use it before every flight. It was called an "expanded scale voltmeter". You may remember it. The ni-cads of 1980 would hold voltage for only so long and then drop straight to zero. Another thing we use to do (which is unnecessary now with the advancements in electronics) is when we would land we would adjust the trim controls back to neutral, and we would adjust the control surfaces on the plane to stay where they are. In other words with the trim controls in the neutral position the control surfaces on the plane were adjusted so the plane would fly straight and level

Since I am a vintage glow flyer I am very cognizant of flame-outs. I visited a quarter scale warbird fun fly a while ago and was saying that I always stand in front of the prop or behind the prop in case it comes apart. To my surprise one guy said they have had props come apart in the air and it will usually ruin the engine. So there is a safety tip. Yes props do come apart. This was a great bunch of South Carolina guys that made me feel welcome and right at home

Here is one of the model planes I admired. I took a photo of it


Last edited by Lee Taylor; 12-21-2021 at 04:49 PM.
Old 12-21-2021, 04:54 PM
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Guys, one thing you all forgot to mention is that, regardless how well someone does with a simulator, it's very different to actually fly a real plane outdoors. Sims normally don't have cross winds, winds that vary in speed and direction, sun glare and actually having to "track" your plane while it's flying. Those of us that have R/C experience are well aware of R/C GENERAL RULE NUMBER 1:
NEVER TAKE YOUR EYES OFF OF YOUR MODEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unlike on a sim, where your plane is always in the middle of the screen, a real plane is always moving and, if you look away for even a second, finding your plane can take several seconds since it won't be where it was when you looked away
Old 12-21-2021, 05:16 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by tedsander View Post
I don't sign off on him until he has done a few flights practicing dead sticks.
Sound like a great idea to me. When I finally get back on the field I will learn how things have changed. For the glow and gasoline flyers I am sure the possibility of a dead stick is real. It is not a comfortable landing. You want to make it (energy wise) to the landing strip but you also do not want to come in TOO fast and over run the landing strip. It is a delicate balance and you must land whether you are slow and about to stall or TOO fast for the runway. It is just part of the game. Fun for all!
Old 12-21-2021, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
regardless how well someone does with a simulator, it's very different to actually fly a real plane outdoors.
Based on my 10 years of R/C model plane field flying vrs my 2 years of sim flying, it is my opinion that sim flying is much easier. Did my years of field flying help me on the sim? Yes it did. Will my years of sim flying help me in the field? Yes I am positive it will. They compliment each other. Knowing what I know now, if I could start it all over, would I prefer to begin my learning on a sim? Yes without a doubt I would. In my opinion the sim is the best starting point. Yes they are very different but in many ways they are very similar. There was a time in my career when I worked on a team that designed and built full size military simulators. No one thinks a simulator is a substitute for the real thing. They are a learning tool. R/C flying can easily be seen as a learning tool for flying full size aircraft. Yes we are using simulators for space flight training. It only makes sense

Last edited by Lee Taylor; 12-21-2021 at 05:51 PM.
Old 12-21-2021, 06:40 PM
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Just to be clear, I'm not saying a sim isn't a good thing. What they let a beginner do is:
  • help learn to use the basics on a transmitter
  • help learn how to identify orientation of the aircraft
  • learn how to land the plane, both under power and dead stick
  • practice basic flight patterns used in take offs and landings
What a sim won't do is:
  • help learn how to deal with variable winds
  • help learn how to deal with the sun
  • help learn how to keep track of the plane in the air
To me, the last one is the most important one. As I said in my previous post, just a quick look away can result in a crash before the plane is reacquired. I found this out the hard way while taking a driver's test to qualify to drive my scale hydroplane in competition. I had an attention lapse of maybe half a second and, with the boat running at 45-50MPH, was barely able to find the boat and avoid running into the bank at the end of the race course but wasn't able to avoid the tree branches hanging over and under the water, damaging the rudder, the right tail, left sponson bottom and destroying the left tail
Old 12-21-2021, 07:20 PM
  #42  
Lee Taylor
 
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
learn how to keep track of the plane in the air
That is good advice. Thank you!
Old 12-21-2021, 10:58 PM
  #43  
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Hydro Junkie, In post #28 I actually did say: "The actual flying of a real model is slightly different from flying on a sim, but the sim is certainly a valuable learning aid". I frequently momentarily take my eyes off my airplane to look for other traffic, and especially when I'm landing to locate, and line up with the landing area.
Old 12-22-2021, 12:29 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by GREG DOE View Post
Hydro Junkie, In post #28 I actually did say: "The actual flying of a real model is slightly different from flying on a sim, but the sim is certainly a valuable learning aid". I frequently momentarily take my eyes off my airplane to look for other traffic, and especially when I'm landing to locate, and line up with the landing area.
You're right and I missed it. You also said you've "been flying since the stone age", which is the reason you can look away from your plane. I've been racing boats for several years and I still can't look around it when I'm in a heat as other boats are going to be on the course and in the area. You might think being able to look away would be required, but it's not. The way the boats jump around on the water, you might find your boat upside down when you look back
Old 12-22-2021, 02:57 PM
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Agreed, boats are different. I've watched boats, but never driven. Think about it though, with an airplane you might fly a couple of thousand feet away from yourself. Most boats are only run several hundred feet away. So a 50mph boat has to be steered more often then a 70mph airplane. Then too you don't have to look around for the runway with a boat!
Old 12-22-2021, 06:38 PM
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The current crop of simulators are quite versatile. There are adjustments to add wind, gusts, thermals and sink. You can also program certain failure such as dead sticks, control surface failure and control surface reversal.

IMO every R/C pilot should spend some time with a glider. There are several good ARF electric powered gliders available. Get some altitude and shut the motor down and learn to manage your airspeed and altitude. Once you get proficient with a glider, you will never panic with unexpected engine failures.
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Old 04-17-2022, 06:48 PM
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Join a club. The FAA rules are a lot simpler then.

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