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Funds for a new runway needed.

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Funds for a new runway needed.

Old 01-12-2004, 09:08 PM
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SpeedBird
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Default Funds for a new runway needed.

Our local club operates at a field that has a very deteriorated runway. Unfortunately, the county (Nassau County, LI NY) has been in a fiscal crisis for some time now. I started out in this hobby one year ago, and I can only say it is one of the best things I've done. As such, I've tried doing many things to raise money to repave the runway and improve the field. I've even set up a website on behalf of the club www.hhams.org with the hope of opening up to new members etc.

Does anyone know if there are any government grants for these types of improvements. The field is on a county owned park.

Thanks all.

Speedbird
Old 01-13-2004, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

Speed Bird,
Unfortunately raising money for repaving of runways is a difficult task. Some options is to hit up the local construction companies specifically the ones that deal with paving. Many of these companies dispose of hundreds of cubic feet of asphalt a day. May be you can make some arrangements with them to donate the left over material to your club for atleast improvements, maybe not a total repaving though. It is also a good tax write off for the company. Other options are contacting local community agencies such as the American Legions, VFW, Moose Lodges etc.. some of these agencies are always looking at a way to improve the community and getting people involved. Good Luck.

Fun2Fly
Old 01-13-2004, 11:38 AM
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

You can try, but its not likely.

How many members do you have? We have the same problem. We moved fields because they decided to build houses in the floodplain we flew in. Now we fly on dirt and need something else. I can't seem to make the club members undertand that flying on dirt is very hard on engines.

It would take $100 per member to do the runway right. Thats less than the price of most kits. They want to spend almost $500 a year to roll the dirt with vibrating rollers 3 times a year instead of putting down felts or anything else. If we put the felts down, they would be there for a long time, would not need to be rolled and no cost each year. They would rather spend money every year and whine about bad runways.

Sounds like your in the same boat? Not enough member support to do it right.

Check into a local vo-tech center and see if they have a heavy equipt training program. You may be able to get them to do it cheaper. The problem is still paying for it.

If you are a 501 C(3) non profit corp, you could maybe get companies to donate some for the write off, but its hard to get a model organization into that category.

Good luck. Keep at it and you will get it done.
Old 01-13-2004, 01:05 PM
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Jemo
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

This came from a friend at another field. I don't know what this stuff is but I will try to find out.
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Old 01-13-2004, 01:22 PM
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Live Wire
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

Where there is a will there is a way . We are a small club and fly from grass. There are good grass blends that are low mantence and do not take much water. And you don't chase the plane for a mile on landing. And as posted the felt works also check the pro's and con's. Good luck
Old 01-13-2004, 01:24 PM
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

As soon as you find out Jemo, let us know. Our club has been trying to get the county to help us out for about 5 years. Seems we always run into a snag, (either the county, BLM, etc.). We have had 3 different sites proposed with the promise of having support from local agencies all along, but nothing ever comes about. It looks like we are closer than ever, but the local agencies are having heartburn about putting in a "permanent" runway. Maybe something like this would be just the ticket...

T.
Old 01-13-2004, 01:44 PM
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

The fabric covering is the stuff they put down as a water barrier between the concrete base and a blacktop road surface. Several clubs out here in OK/TX have used it with great success. Just be sure its all rolled out and pinned down before the sun comes out. Once it starts to shrink you'll never get the pieces to line up. See http://www.mbcsi.com/flyingaces/
Old 01-13-2004, 03:29 PM
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

Our runway is about 10 yrs old. http://www.americanturfflyers.com We are planning for a new runway and in the meantime, we are patching it each fall to try to keep the moisture out of the base. We set aside a certain percentage of our club dues in order to prepare for the day we need the replacement. I am not sure if this would help your stuation, but that is how we do it.
Old 01-13-2004, 04:55 PM
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SpeedBird
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

Great ideas, keep it coming guys.
Thanks all.
Old 01-13-2004, 05:06 PM
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

The mat is called petromat. It comes in 15 foot rolls that are 300 feet long from what I understand. There are 2 thicknesses. The thin one is too thin. They are using 6 inch staples ever 8 to 12 inches and spikes about every 2 feet at some fields. We are looking at putting it down. Our runway to be 40 feet by 300 would be in the 1500 dollar range for the mat, plus spikes and staples. It cost us about $1000 to prepare the surface. Don't know if anyone can get it cheaper, but would love to find out.

Makes a nice surface.
Old 01-14-2004, 12:37 PM
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

if you have a concrete company nearby contact them .i work for a company and we are always looking for a place to get rid of leftover concrete. we throw away sometimes up to 5-6 cubic yards an evening. 1 cubic yard will cover approximately an area 10 feet by 8 feet square at a 4 inch thickness. all you have to have is the manpower to finish it and have the forms setup so that you can pour at a moments notice.
Old 01-14-2004, 12:57 PM
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SpeedBird
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

Thanks Jcole,

I wish you were in New York. Honestly.

Speedbird
Old 01-14-2004, 04:06 PM
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jcole43
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

im throwing away 20 yards tonight !!!!!!!! like i said contact a local concrete company they will probably be more than glad to get rid of leftovers at your site if you have the manpower to do it!!!
Old 01-17-2004, 07:10 PM
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Jemo
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

I just found the name of the material.

the stuff is called Geolon. A heavy polypropylene mesh. It is very much heavier than weed barrier.

That's all He told me.
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Old 01-18-2004, 12:06 PM
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

Our local hobby shop contributed most of the funds for paving the runway at our new field. He also has prices competitive with (or in some cases lower than) mail order and will order anything he doesn't have in stock. He was a major force in organizing the club and finding a field. His business has grown since and I'm sure he'll benefit in the long run. This is just one of the advantages to having a LHS owner that is not only a good business man but also a modeler.
Old 01-18-2004, 06:57 PM
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

Why don't you give you LHS owner a plug, who is he ??? where is the shop located.
Old 01-20-2004, 10:51 AM
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

We have the felt runway and I guess it's ok for a quick fix.Cheaper than asphalt or cement.Our members now wish we had gone a little more expensive so all problems would be solved.But some of the tight wads and whiners won out.

The plastic mat is ok but the huge thing here is the base that it's layed over.Our first runway the base was like 60/40..We had channels of washout under the mat.The second addition we put a sandy slag stuff that was better but we still have channels of washout under the mat.Just can't stop the washout no matter what.

If the ground stays rather wet and a strong wind comes up the staples will pull out rather easily and there goes the mat. That happened to us recently and we're still waiting for the ground to dry up.(probably June) so we can put the staples back down.A waste of time to put the staples in a wet ground.

If a club can afford it and they have a long lease or own the land the best thing to do is fly off of grass or whatever until the club can afford to do it rite.Doing it rite would be to forget the mat and go with a hard surface that will stay there forever.

Our prior club had asphalt for 13 years and we've been gone from there for two years.The club is gone but the asphalt is still there.Even asphalt will crack after a few years but you don't have to worry about it blowing away or any of that stuff.

It all boils down to how much upkeep you want to do. The mat will need upkeep.Due to the washout under our mat the edges of the mat are about an inch above the ground and the tailwheels have been know to catch on it...

Spend the money or find someone that will donate extra asphalt or cement.

My 2 cents
Walt/Tex
Old 01-20-2004, 10:53 AM
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

We have the felt runway and I guess it's ok for a quick fix.Cheaper than asphalt or cement.Our members now wish we had gone a little more expensive so all problems would be solved.But some of the tight wads and whiners won out.

The plastic mat is ok but the huge thing here is the base that it's layed over.Our first runway the base was like 60/40..We had channels of washout under the mat.The second addition we put a sandy slag stuff that was better but we still have channels of washout under the mat.Just can't stop the washout no matter what.

If the ground stays rather wet and a strong wind comes up the staples will pull out rather easily and there goes the mat. That happened to us recently and we're still waiting for the ground to dry up.(probably June) so we can put the staples back down.A waste of time to put the staples in a wet ground.

If a club can afford it and they have a long lease or own the land the best thing to do is fly off of grass or whatever until the club can afford to do it rite.Doing it rite would be to forget the mat and go with a hard surface that will stay there forever.

Our prior club had asphalt for 13 years and we've been gone from there for two years.The club is gone but the asphalt is still there.Even asphalt will crack after a few years but you don't have to worry about it blowing away or any of that stuff.

It all boils down to how much upkeep you want to do. The mat will need upkeep.Due to the washout under our mat the edges of the mat are about an inch above the ground and the tailwheels have been know to catch on it...

Spend the money or find someone that will donate extra asphalt or cement.

My 2 cents
Walt/Tex
Old 01-20-2004, 08:50 PM
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SpeedBird
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

Does anyone know how many inches would be adequate base?

Also, if the runway is done in cement, does the old asphalt have to be removed to make way for new base? Or can we repave over the runway with the old asphalt? Can we put cement over the old asphalt for that matter?

How much cement would be required above the base?

If we go asphalt, how much asphalt would be sufficent above the base? In inches of course.

Thanks all.
Speedbird
Old 01-21-2004, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

PLEASE - IF YOU'RE OFFENDED BY ALL CAPS, PLEASE DON'T LOOK AT THIS ----
JEMO -- FROM POST #16--
I'M NOT IN THAT CLUB BUT I THINK I KNOW WHO LOUW FROM GA. WAS TALKING ABOUT - IT'S - ALLISON PERFORMANCE HOBBIES IN NEWNAN, GA.
770 254 9557 - HE'S A GOOD GUY. HE OUGHT TO HAVE A WHITE HAT.
BUT I THOUGHT THERE WERE 2 HOBBY SHOPS INVOLVED IN THAT. DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHO THE OTHER ONE WAS, IF THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE.
-----ANYONE - WHAT DOES 'LHS' STAND FOR?
KEN
Old 01-21-2004, 04:22 PM
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SpeedBird
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

Local Hobby Shop.
BTW, (By The Way) put in the effort and try to use your shift key. We all do it. See... if your swimming, and somehow you get a cramp and yell for help. You'll need those caps, otherwise no one will know the difference whether your shouting or not.


Cheers
Old 01-21-2004, 09:12 PM
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Q-Ball
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

Speed,
I'm not an expert on anything. Don't know about putting cement over asphalt.

If you put asphalt over the base.I think I'd go at least three inches.Four would be even better.If you put cement over the base,I'd think you could put two or three inches. As long as it's thick enough to put the wire in it.With slabs of cement that large, wire would certainly have to be used.Heavier the better.

I don't mind keeping up with the mat as far as maintance but I'm 59 and one of the babies of the club if you can believe that. Average age is probably 65 and when work days arrive not many of those can crawl around on hands and knees to help staple or whatever.

I just think if you want a completely trouble free runway,go with cement,even if it's a little at a time.It will be there when most of yall are flying way up there.LOL...I think..LOL...

Good luck.
Heck,win the lottery!!
Later
Walt
Old 01-22-2004, 11:24 AM
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LouW
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Default RE: Funds for a new runway needed.

It was indeed Stan Allison. There was no other hobby shop involved. I had not been building models for many years and it was Stan who got me started back several years ago. Since then I have built nine R/C models and several rubber and free flight aircraft. I buy most of my stuff from him. It would be worth paying a premium, however his prices are quite competitive with mail order, and there are no shipping charges. His shop is just a "hole in the wall", and it is always covered with boxes he's just received. Truly one of the good guys.

Club members did all of the labor and several contributed both time and money, but he was the main one.

LHS stands for local hobby shop.

Ken, if you aren't comfortable using the shift key, try typing in all lower case. It won't be any harder to read, and won't be nearly as loud.

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