iflynething

I have a Somethin' Extra and I couldnt' get the elevators exactly right on the horizontal stab so looking fromt the back, the right side has a huge gap all the way through, and the left side part of the elevators, the inside has a purdy big gap and the outside is smaller...............but I just couldn't get them right......but I have found threads where people put monokote or the sticky covering alternative for small holes, and putting that down in the gap on one or both sides....I wonder if that would work on mine.........I won't be flying that plane that fast because it's aerobatic, but I just don't want to take a chance with a plane like that, and especially a brand new one...........

Live Wire

You have the rite idea goahed and put the mono. in the slots , make sure the controls move freely. If you have not done yhis before try it on some scrap balsa first to se how it is done.

CafeenMan

How wide is a "huge gap?" A seal will help, but if the gap is huge as you say, there are other things that can go wrong such as hinge fatigue. Can you post a pic?

Jimmbbo

HUGE gap???

If the gap is really large, and you are using CA hinges, then hinge bending may cause flutter as well, irrespective of closing the gap... Any loosness in the control run increases the likelihood of flutter...

I would consider cutting the surface off and re-hinging for anything other than a trainer....

HTH

Jim

Rodney

A gap usually has nothing to do with flutter unless it is so bad that the hinge flexes in axis not meant to be. Closing the gap will improve response. Flutter is more likely caused by limp or nonrigid pushrods, to flexable push rods or slop in the holes in the horns.

swooper

It shouldn't take long to cut the hinges and install new ones. Hard to imagine why the elevators wouldn't line up right.

Ed_Moorman

My Feedback: (1)

I wouldn't cut anything loose, yet. Use some matching or clear Monokote to cover the gap. I also use clear packing tape. Make sure you disconnect the control horn and bend the surface all the way over before you tape of iron the covering. Flex it back to neutral and run your finger down the gap to get the covering down in the gap, then touch it up with the iron.

If you use tape, as I do a lot, dump some talcum powder in the gap and shake it around or the tape will make sticking sounds for a while. I get comments like, "Hey, Ed, your wing's got arthritus, I hear it creaking when it moves."

FHHuber

I'll go with the one who said.. we need to see it to say what you need.

Your idea of a huge gap may be my idea of passable. Can you MEASURE tha gap? See what thickness of balsa will slide in. 1/32 is OK 1/16 is excessive. (but liveable with the sealing) 1/8 is WAY out you HAVE to fix it. (assuming the CA hinges)

If it refused to line up... then there is almost certainly something else wrong. From your description, I think you didn't get the eleavtor halves aligned with each other wen you joined them... That would create more problems than the gap!

Get an experienced, GOOD builder to look at it IN PERSON and help you fix it right.

iflynething

Ok.......on the inside right half of the elevator the gap is about 1/4 inch.....I know....that is alot.....and then I gets smaller as you go out toward the elevator tip; then on the LEFT inside elevator at the first hinge, it measures about 3/16+- and it gets smaller also as you go toward the tip of the elevator.....That is alot......I took that plane to the LHS and they said that I wouldn't have any problems because it being a aerobatic plane like I said I wouldn't be flying it TOO fast....well enough to cause flutter......I know that alot are asking how you could get the HUGE gap that I got......well you know how on the ARF Somethin Extra, you have to put that metal "bent" rod into each elevator half, well, I guess that I just didn't get that to equal into the elevator and that's what caused it.......The only problem si is I have to or need to take off the elevators to rehinge them then I would also have to take off the rudder and all.....But, on the other hand I wouldn't want to take the chance of my hinges failing......I always learn the hard way.....and I never really learn.....I tried to push the elevator all the way into the the stab but I had to get it as good as I could........These gaps that I made are the process of me putting everything and pushing with all my might, all the while trying not to push to hard so I don't break anything......I wouldn't want that to happen........I wish that I could provide a picture, but don't have a digi........I do have a video camera but not capable of putting that on the computer........I'll see what the guys at the field say........they would be able to look at the gap and determine what to do....not to say that I can't get the info right here, but I wish I had a good picture that I could show......I hope that my measurments are right.......but it is DEFENATLEY NNOOTT 1/16....that gap is HUMUNGUS......that is to me though......I hope that I don't have to cut everything away........

CDignition

My Feedback: (9)

I think you should rebuild the elevator, and possibly the whole stab. DO it right, this is one of the more important control surfaces,lol..

Stew99

For CA hinges, you have to make sure the slots are deep enough and clear of any debris before you try to put the control surface on. I will usually dry fit the hinges several times before I glue them in place. If a hinge buckles when you try to press the surfaces together, don't even think about gluing it, take it apart and run an Xacto blade in the slot. Usually a little side to side motion will help wiggle the hinges into the slots. Once you have a tight fit between the surfaces, then hit it with thin CA.

swooper

The lesson here is that messing up step A means step B will also be messed up, etc.

Taped or sealed, it sounds like a gap that big could still lead to hinge failure and an elevator blowing off. The elevator response will probably be sloppy anyway.

If you cut the rudder and elevators off, remove the wire joiner, and re-install everything properly, it's still a lot less work than crash repair. Or, it it takes 4 hours to save a $200 plane, you're making $50/hour. Take your time, get it right, learn how to make the next model easier and better. Fly knowing you're plane's in good shape instead of fearing it's not.

best wishes![8D]

iflynething

I know that that is a very big gap........When and if I cut the CA hinges out, then put the others right next to them....I don't know how that would work because all the CA would be in and around the hole and I wouldn't be able to fit another knife down into there.......I'll see what I can do....................

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I know that others have said that, but it seams it can't be said enough. This should be a question of "if", but rather a statement of "WHEN". I have build 5 and flown 3 (built the other two for friends) and I can tell you with 100% assurance that you will have major problems if you try to fly the SE as you have described. Covering a gap with monokote is no substitute for building it correctly the first time. When you attach the elevator to the stab the gap between the two should be an EVEN 1/16"-3/32" along the entire length of the elevator. my suggestion would be to rebuild at least the stab if not the entire tail section. The advice you got about not flying fast because this was and acrobatic plane was bad advice. This plane put a lot of stress on the tail section (hence the flying wires to help strengthen the tail section), and it needs to be build correctly.

This plane is just about the most fun plane I have ever flown. please take the time to build it correctly. once you have it in the air you will be happy that you did.

just my 2 cents worth

iflynething

Well, I just got the hinges and I am planning on cutting everything out and putting new hinges in and everything.......I wouldn't want to not be sure that that plane will fly....I want to be sure that it will..........and not fail me....THANKS FOR THE ADVICE........

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

I would not fly a plane in that condition. Cut out the hinges, use and exacto to route out new hinge slots. If the Stab itself is that far off, then rebuild it to plans. If it is an ARF, send it back to the mfg for a replacement.

Any hinge gap over 1/8, and especially a gap that varies from one end of a surface to the other tells me that the symmetry is way off and likey to be a highly unstable / erratic flyer.

Do it right.
DP

iflynething

I e-mailed Sig to ask them if I could get a new horizontal and vertical stab, and rudder/elevator contorl surfaces covered. I hope that they can send this stuff to me free of charge. But, I realized that the only problem with this is if they do send me that stuff then I won't be able to take the current stabs out because I have JB welded them into the fuse. THOSE THINGS AREN'T GOIN ANYWHERE!!................I hope I can work somethin out.......I know that we didn't screw it up....but we probably did!!!!...........

Eagle Keeper

Michael,
I would suggest you cut off the elevator, including the joiner wire, then make a new joiner wire thats a little longer/shorter than the first and redrill new holes and epoxy it in. You could use a Dremel to clean it up if you have to cut it with diagonal cutters (the old joiner). Lastly I would rehinge the elevators with the pin style hinges making sure you drilled into solid wood and not a previous hinge slot. Make sure you dry fit everything then glue the new hinges in with 30 minute epoxy. Good luck and don't get down on yourself, consider it a lesson from "The School of Hard Knocks". We've all been there!!

Dewey2

My Feedback: (24)

you will be paying a good price for a new tail set . thats not their falt that you made a messed up hinge gap . you can break jb weld easy . next time use epoxy.

FHHuber

Here's what i would do. (30 years building and repairing)

Cut the messed up hinges flush with the back of the stabilizer and flush with the front of the elevator. Leave the part that is in the wood alone.

Get some Robart Hinge points. The ones that are 1/8 inch dia. (they have several sizes)

Wiggle the wire joner out of the 2 elevator halves and throw it away.

Make a new joiner from the same size wire... but 1 1/2 inch wider between the legs that insert into the elevator halves.

Make a jig to hold a drill STRAIGHT when drilling the holes in the elevator and stabilizer. (just a couple pieces of wood... not really hard)

Drill new holes for the new joiner... 3/4 inch from the old holes. (obviously, further from center of the aircraft...)

Drill the elevator halves and stab for 3 hinge points on each side of the rudder.

wiggle the joiner wire in through the gap between rudder and fun (or back of fuselage... where it belongs)

coat the pin area of the hinge points with some Vaseline. (just the pin area.... )

put some 30 min epoxy in each drilled hole.

Stick in the hinge points and put it all together.

Wiggle the elevator up and down a few times to ensure the hinges are all straight. (they will self align a little)

Make sure the gap is down to 1/16 inch or less, and EVEN all the way across.

Leave the thing alone for about an hour or two.

should be good.

You can then do the tape/monokote gap sealing.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

iflynething,
I know that this whole ordeal has been a bit rough to take, but it's definately not a total loss. the good thing about all of this is that you definately don't need Sig to seed you new parts. Follow the instructions that FHHuber has posted. And if you damage the wood beyond hope, you can always cut new parts. The pieces of the tail are all flat balsa. You can get some 1/4" sheet balsa and use the plans to cut new parts to rebuild the tail with. These parts are fairly simple to cut out if you take your time.

Hang in there. The Somethin Extra is well worth this effort. After your first flight you will understand just what I mean.

iflynething

So, if I understand correctly, cut everything out flush w/ control surfaces and stablizers. Then take the joiner out and throw it away. Get the same size wire or the old joiner and make it longer and drill new holes that are STRAIT and into the elevators. Then, get pinned hinge points, drill hole for 3 hinges on each side and put them in, epoxy and go fly.......If I put something that was not right, please correct me..I WANT TO DO THIS RIGHT...THANKS EVERYONE FOR ALOT OF GREAT ADVICE......!!!!!!!!!!!!