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Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

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Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

Old 10-04-2004, 05:42 PM
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aec12
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Default Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

I just got a Tiger Stick 40 for my second airplane. This plane flies great, but with one problem. It seems to perform rolls much slower than I had anticipated.

I have the aileron throws set at 5/16" up and 5/16" down as the book calls for.

My question is, is it ok to increase the aileron throws on this plane to achieve a quicker and more areobatic roll??

Thanks,

Allen
Old 10-04-2004, 09:14 PM
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âûñøåå îäíî
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

you can increase the throws, but you will put more stess on the plane. Over time it might weaken it, but it probably wont be noticable unless you greatly increase them. Just be carefull when you increase them because it will be more sensitive, and do it a little at a time and you will be fine
Old 10-04-2004, 09:22 PM
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aec12
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

Thanks for the info. Based on what you said, I will probably add 1/16" and see if that gets me there. If not, I might add another 1/16", but I will not go any more than that.

Again, thanks for the info.
Old 10-05-2004, 06:12 AM
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DBCherry
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

Move the control rod clevis in a hole or two on the aileron control horn, that will add aileron throw. The manufacturers usually call for low throw to keep the plane docile until you want more. I'm sure the Stick would likely withstand full throw without too much difficulty. Just don't pull full aileron in a high speed dive, especially if you've also over powered the plane.
Dennis-
Old 10-05-2004, 06:39 AM
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aec12
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

Dennis,

If I move the clevis to a hole closer to the control surface, I know that will increase throw. But wouldn't I also have to adjust the clevis in or out to get the aileron back to neutral?

I have a computer radio (Futaba EXA). Would you recommend using EPA to get more throw instead of moving the clevis? My thinking here is, that way, I would not have to re-adjust to neutral since thgey are already in the neutral position. Please respond.

Thanks for the reply,

allen
Old 10-05-2004, 08:11 AM
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

There are a couple of things you can do to increase the roll rate, but first, this will also mean the plane will be more sensitive in roll.

-If your radio has exponential, set it to around -50%. Futaba radios use negative expo, JR's use positive expo. This is the convention each uses, but the controls work the same. Expo will reduce the sensitivity around the center. Remember, more expo means less sensitive in the center.

Now to increasing the roll rate. Here are some things to do:

-Tape the aileron-trailing edge gap closed. Take off the clevice, flip the wing over so you are looking at the bottom, bend the aileron down and use 3M clear packaging tape to cover the gap. Bend the aileron back up and push the tape down in the crease.

-Get a longer servo control arm and use the outer most holes. Shoot for 45 degrees of travel.

-Run your end point setting up to the max. On my JR's, this is 150%

-Run the dual rates up to the max. On my JR's, this is 125%

-Use 2 servos for ailerons. You can trim out the center mounting hole and squeeze in 2 servos, side-by-side, hooking one to each torque rod.

-Use more powerful servos for ailerons. Digitals are great here and the price is coming down. the problem with low power and non-digital servos is once the travel to the max point, they tend to get blown back toward center by the air loading, especially on a fast airplane.

-Remove the tips and add end plates extending 3/4 inch past the airfoil all around. This will also lower the landing speed.
Old 10-05-2004, 09:17 AM
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Ed Smith
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

aec12,

Try this first. Forget Expo, do not move any horns etc. Set up two aileron rates on the transmitter. You can switch these in flight from the low to the high. If the high is too much just switch back. Adjust accordingly when back on the ground.

Ed S
Old 10-05-2004, 11:19 AM
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

Thanks guys,

This is some great information. Please keep all the ideas coming, as I am learning a lot from this.

Thanks,

Allen
Old 10-05-2004, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

Some servos, espeically inexpensive sport sevos don't always deal with being sent to much beyond 100% throw. So just using EPA and DR to push the servo past 100% won't always work, and will sometimes give funky performance at the end points. You're better off adjusting the linkages to get more throw. And yes, you sometimes have to adjust the pushrod length to re-center the surface afterwards. It's no big deal.

Personally, I use a lot of expo on some of my planes, but you should probibly start with smaller amounts of expo and smaller throws and see if you like it. Some people like expo, some people don't. (I've even seen some guys who dial in a little reverse expo to make the plane more responsive around neutral and softer at the extremes, but that's not common. I've flown that way just to see what it's like. It's interesting, but I didn't like it).
Old 10-05-2004, 07:33 PM
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

Adding a longer arm on the servo isn't always a good idea either. You add more stress to the servo that way, moving the clevis in on the control surface horn places a bit less stress on the servo.
Dennis-
Old 10-06-2004, 06:20 AM
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

On the contrary, Dennis. Moving the clevis farther away from the center of the servo and moving it closer to the hinge line on a control surface will put the same amount of "stress" on a servo.

But if you move it closer to the hinge line at the control surface, you lose mechanical advantage. You may find that even though you have more surface throw, you have less control authority, since the force on the surface by external factors (moving air, etc) keeps them from moving as far as you want.

By using longer servo arms, you gain mechanical advantage and the extra control surface movement.

On a trainer or sport plane, 40 to 60 size, you will be hard pressed to ever "stress" a standard servo.
Old 10-06-2004, 07:37 AM
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aec12
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

Once again, thanks for all the great info. I am really learning some valuable tips from your expertise. Please keep the info coming.

Allen
Old 10-06-2004, 08:36 AM
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Jim Schwagle
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

Seal the aileron gaps.
Old 10-07-2004, 11:34 AM
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

Dennis and Dick,

Sorry guys, you are both wrong. It doesn't matter how you get there. If you have a 30* servo rotation make a 15* surface deflection, that's going to be the same torque on the servo no matter if you use a long servo arm and long horn, or a short arm and a short horn. Since you are basically talking torque on both ends anyway.

Where it does matter is in the pushrod flex and control slop.

If your pushrod has to move a long distance, then that means it doesn't have to exert much force. Or, to put it another way, if you look at the torque required to move the surface, you find that as you get more "inches" of control arm, you get less "oz" of force. So to reduce pushrod flex, go out on the servo arm and out on the control horn.

If you have slop in your fittings, like clevis pins in over-sized holes, going out on the arm and out on the control surface makes for less slop, or rather, the slop is a smaller % of the pushrod travel, so has less effect in the air.

On the downside, long servo arms and control arms can sometimes flex and they are harder to fit in some small places. You can also get binding because of the larger sideways motion.

And a final "btw", one thing you shouldn't do is set up a servo with a long arm and a short control arm on the surface, then use ATV to restrict the servo to a small portion of travel. (my personal limit is 80%. If I find I'm using less than 80% travel, it's time to change something physical). The reason is that the RX only has so many "steps" or positions it can send to the servo, and you want all you can get for the best servo resolution. When you cut down ATV, you loose steps. In the extreme, you can have trouble getting the surface to center consistantly.
Old 10-07-2004, 12:20 PM
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Default RE: Tiger Stick 40 Rolling Too Slow

I agree 99.9% with Monte, but here's what the original poster wanted to do. He needed more control surface deflection.

I think that I said to make the servo arm longer while keeping the control horn the same length. (at lease I think I said that) This results in more surface throw, what he wanted.

On a smaller plane like he has, the torque available from the servo will not be stressed, up to a certain point. I agree that "more inches means less torque", but it should still be within the limits of his servo

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