DUHAWK49

My Feedback: (6)

JUST FINISHING UP ON MY CAP 232 BY H9.. MADE MY OWN DESIGNS AND USED MONOKOTE OVER THE EXISTING COVERING IN SOME AREAS.. IT SEEMS TO STICK VERY WELL BUT SHOULD I PUT A COAT OF CLEARCOAT ON OVER IT TO KEEP THE EDGES FROM COMING UP? OR IS STICKY ADHESIVE ON THE FILM ALL I NEED? ANY SUGGESTIONS OR COMMENTS WOULD BE APPRECIATED... THANKS

Mode1

My Feedback: (10)

I brush on 2 to 4 coats of water based Poly-U. On the edges only. I use a small high quailty saber or pointed brush. After it dries for a day or two I apply a few coats of auto wax to the entire airplane. There must be better way but this is the best method I have used so far. My plastic covering edges do not come loose.

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

Is this Monokote or Trimkote? Monokote is not sticky and has no "sticky adhesive" as you put it, until heat is applied, and then the only "stick" is to wood or covering underneath.
I cant imagine clearing over monokote of any sort either, you might end up worse off then pealing edges.
Trimkote itself is fairly durable, although direct blasts of exhaust will take it off pretty quick, any other area tends to hold well, at least for quite a while.
If it's Monokote(applied with heat) and applied correctly, IT AINT COMIN OFF!! No way, no how. It becomes part of the base covering. So nothing else is required. Monokote over Monokote takes quite a bit of practice, but once youve got it down, its the only way to go.
Duhawk, you might try and clarify what you have hear, I'm thinking it's Trimkote, by your description. That's just so those here in RC land can better help you. Good luck.

DUHAWK49

My Feedback: (6)

it is monokote on monokote, i cut my own designs from the roll and applied over existing monokote

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Okay; first, Bradley, the H9 CAP is covered in UltraCote- which is a POLYESTER film, as opposed to MonoKote which is a PLASTIC film. Monokote's adhesive is activated at a higher temperature than U-Cote; so applying enough heat to seal down MonoKote will probably burn through U-Cote. Not sure about that, I've never tried it. But I have worked quite a bit with both materials separate of each other- they have different properties.

DGrant, gotta disagree with you on "sealing" the edges. I have found that the best way to get an acceptable MonoKote-over-MonoKote finish is to use the trim solvent, followed by low heat to "set" the adhsive. But I think the edges are still vulnerable to fuel seepage, so I basically do what Mode1 does- brush on a coat of clear Hobby-Poxy. Time-consuming and messy, yes- but I haven't had anything except some U-Cote Plus (see below) come up yet, and you can't see the clear coat unless you hold the model in the light just right.

I HAVE had some UltraCote Plus trim come up. This is the sticky-back version of UltraCote. I agree with DGrant that once the regular stuff is sealed down with high heat, it is pretty much impervious to anything. I have been less than impressed with the sticky-back stuff and won't use it again.

The problem with MonoKote is that it does NOT like to be applied over itself, and high heat will cause felony bubbles and wrinkles. I would imagine that MonoKote over UltraCote would be worse.

Steve

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

It seems to yield very good results for me.
First thing is to obviously minimize the overlaps where possible.
When laying precut monokote graphics over base monokote. This is where your iron becomes VERY important....the 21st century iron has circuitry that does not allow it to deviate more the 3 degrees, there is reason for this right here....you set your iron to the point that covering is JUST starting to adhere, just a touch, you will still be able to lift it without incident, but in essence it's set in place.
What you want to do is start by tacking one end of your graphic with iron at your tacking temp. Working your way out and lifting covering as you go, and then ironing it down with the heal only of the iron. If iron is set right, and you end up with air in any of it, pull it back up to that point and start again from there.
Again iron temp is key here, to hot your screwed, to cold will let air in after youve sealed it out., and it's really not hot at all, matter of fact you can touch the iron briefly with no prob, very low temp.
Once you have initial sealing take place, slowly go up with temp until you can no longer lift it. Then one more pass just a step higher in heat and it's not going anywhere.
This works well for me, It is a pain, and avoided when possible, but necessary when needed. I have several planes that have monokote over monokote, and yes it will definately leave air pockets, alot of them, but the method I've briefly described eliminated that for me. Like anything else it take practice too. The proof's in the puddin though.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

There is definitely more than one way to skin this particular cat. The trim solvent works, but usually does leave some tiny air bubbles when doing a large trim piece.

I think I'll give your method a try when I do the Contender's wing. So you're saying that you use the heel of the iron to force the trim piece down in place- as opposed to laying it in place a bit at a time with your hand?

Steve

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

Hey Steve, yes, as I lay covering, I press out the bubbles with iron. The key is the IRON TEMP, you don't want the covering permanent at this point, what will tell you this is testing, I found the correct temp is when I can get covering to stick, and then lift it right back off without problem. Don't let iron linger to long in one area either or it will defeat purpose. The idea is to basically to lay covering without the trapped air, and if there is slightly trapped air let the iron squeegee the air out. It takes a bit of practice, and you are so right when you say there's more then one way. I totally agree. I've been covering with monokote since it was on the market, and go back to days of silkspan, silray, solarfilm etc...I've found monokote to work the best for myself and my applications though. I've heard Ultrakote doesnt have the trapped air syndrome that haunts M on M jobs, and I'm sure there's something to that as well. We all learn at this hobby, always new and challenging. Good luck, Merry Christmas.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Got it Dale; I'll definitely give your method a try.

Yeah, I have found that U-Cote is much more "user-friendly" than M-Kote; but it would appear that Horizon has taken the opportunity to raise the price significantly. The Evil Empire will still sell you a roll of MonoKote for eleven bucks; Horizon wants fifteen or sixteen dollars per roll of U-Cote. That difference adds up quick, and I'll just keep using MonoKote for now.

Steve

HitecRedneck

How about the dish washing soap, water method? Wash the area the trim is going and then lay it down. With a squeege remove all the solution and air bubbles, this is not hard to do, then let it dry for about 16 hours, overnight. Then take you small sealing iron and go around the edges, no bubbles and no lift. Works for me from small stuff to 30% scale.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Hmmm; I've done that with sticky-back decals. I did a similar thing with small MonoKote pieces and Glass Plus instead of soapy water on the painted wheel pants on my Sportster; I shot a coat of Lustrekote clear over them, and they're still looking good.

Tell you what, Redneck- I like this idea the best so far. It gives the most "fudge factor" when laying down trim pieces. I really don't like that trim solvent technique, because you only get one shot and it leaves tiny air bubbles on big pieces. And Dale's method would leave one hosed if a wrinkle suddenly appeared halfway through ironing the piece down.

Using the soapy water trick, you can position and re-position the piece to suit (at least you can using regular decals); then, when it is where you want it, squeegee that puppy down, let it sit for a few days, hit it with low heat on the edges, and brush on some HobbyPoxy clear.

Man, I love these forums...

Steve

CurtD

My Feedback: (1)

You can easily mix up a brew that will allow you to use the "wet" method to attach your Monokote trim that is very easy to do and will not require any sealing with the iron when it's dry. In an old Windex or other spray bottle mix up about 4 oz. water, 2 or 3 oz. of denatured alcohol, a small amount of dishwashing liquid (about 8 or 10 drops) and about 1 to 1-1/2 oz of Trim Solvent. Shake it up good and spray it on the base covering, getting a even thin coat. Lay your Monokote trim (be sure to remove the clear plastic) onto the sprayed area and slide it around until it's in exactly the right position. Take a soft rubber squeegee (get these at the car parts place) and working from the center in all directions squeegee the liquid out until there are no bubbles or creases. Use paper towels to sop up the excess and then allow to dry at least four hours (depends on temp and humidity). The trim will be fastened to the base Monokote as if it were ironed on and won't come off.

It's pretty easy to do but if you have an old wing you might experiment a little to get the hang of it. Oh yes, this method also works on Monokote trim over painted surfaces and does not harm the paint (Rustoleum in this case).

Here's an example of doing Monokote trim using the method above. This A/C has a Monokoted wing and painted fuselage:

HitecRedneck

Curt I'm sure going to give your method a try as I never did like having to seal the edges. Also I knew there was a brew but it's been so long that I have used it, well, I forgot. Thanks

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Outstanding, Curt- thanks.

One assumes the alcohol/soap retards the adhesive action of the trim solvent long enough to get it positioned?

Steve

gpmikemorse-RCU

CurtD, what is the shelf life of your concoction? Do you have to mix it up each evening?

gpmikemorse-RCU

I use all three methods, depending on the size of the piece, and whether or not there are openings under the original Monokote.

For tiny pieces (say 1 square inch), I just press out the bubbles with my fingers, and hit it with an iron set a little lower than normal.

For pieces up to, say, 2" by 4", I use trim solvent. I hold down half the piece with my fingers, to keep the position right, then I put a *small* amount of trim solvent on the plane, and slowly smooth down the piece. Then I do the other half. One thing to be careful of, don't use much solvent! If you do, the color may bleed, and you'll have a devil of a time cleaning it up. You can get just a little solvent on a paper towel, and the slightest amount is enough on the plane, even if it appears to have evaporated.

Anything bigger, I use the Windex method, squeegee it out well, then iron the edges the next day. You can also use this for the self-adhesive trim sheets, but they are more likely to peel in the long run, particularly pointy places in the design. I don't use the self-adhesive stuff except where I need a small amount and I don't want to buy a whole roll of Monokote.

Everybody should read AnnMarie Cross's article on on using trim solvent at: http://www.top-flite.com/reviews/trimgraphics.html I am nowhere near that skill level, but I can dream, no?