khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Looking at putting a smoke system on a .60 size WACO. I'm looking at TME's Smart Smoker. My question is about the muffler, and preheating the smoke oil. I have a Saito .80 in this plane, and have the steel elbow with a flex-pipe for an exhaust. The pressure tap for the tank is where the flex pipe threads onto the elbow, and the pipe exits at the bottom center of the cowl. If I place another nipple at this point for the smoke oil to enter the exhaust stream, will it get hot enough to ignite the smoke oil (make smoke)?

This pipe works very well for the plane, plenty of power and tank pressure, and sounds incredible, especially when making full throttle passes and doing aerobatics, so I'd like to keep the exhaust like it is. Will this work for a smoke system?

red head

I'm not much on smoke systems but seeing you aren't getting any answers I'll give my $.02. Everything I've done and been told was that the smoke oil has to get pretty warm to make smoke and in most cases 4c engines don't get really hot. The oil would have to be pre heated to really do a good job. With your system it looks like you would have to have a preheat tank of some type, or you may be able to wrap the smoke line around the exhaust pipe and hope it gets hot enough. As far as the point of entry I would say just short of the point of heat loss on the exhaust. Point: on the old dragsters and sprint cars we used to use a grease pencil line on the exhaust, where the line burned off to was the hot zone and that's where we cut the exaust to tune it. I guess just short of that point would be the entry point.
Sorry I can't be of more help but maybe this will give you something to work with. ENJOY !!! RED

iaclmac

I will be the first to admit that I don't know a thing about smoke systems. So, I am not sure if this is of any help ... but ... have you considered what the guys flying electric planes do for smoke?? I am sure there is a reason that you don't see them normally used in regular gas planes but I have no clue what it might be. Maybe someone will read this and enlighten us both,

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Red--Thanks for the reply; I was beginning to wonder if there was anyone who had anything to offer. I've never heard of the grease pencil trick; why would you want to cut the pipe at that particular spot? All my engine tuning experience is more along road racing lines, where the power band needed to be a bit more than just full throttle.

On the subject of smoke, if I knew what the flash temp was for smoke oil, I could measure the header temp from the port on down with a temp probe, and see if it got hot enough. I do know that the exhaust gets hot enough for about 4 inches down from the port to burn the black paint off the flex pipe. I'm pretty sure I might have difficulties below say, 1/2 throttle, but at 1/2 or better it's probably spitting fire out of the port. The Saito has a fair amount of valve overlap, so the fuel is probably still burning a little when the valves open.
Maybe I could wrap some brass tubing around the header, sort of make a coil to preheat the oil, and then make the connection into the exhaust.

I think this pipe would make a good dispenser, it's big enough to stick the end of your little finger in, and exits under the middle of the plane, plus it has a great exhaust note, not too loud, but sounds like a radial when it throttles up.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Khodges, You shouldn't need to pre-heat the oil, but if I were you, I'd tap that pipe as close to the engine as is practical. I have a similar setup and I tapped the pipe itself. Ther pic below will give you an idea of where I would tap yours.

For more info, read the article I wrote on Smoke:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=455

red head

BACK when we were using the grease pencil trick we didn't have all the fancy inst. that you have now days and that was our way of getting the best out of what we were running. Old fashioned ? Yes, but that's where your new fangled inst. came from. ENJOY !!! RED

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Mike; that's a nice article. Will JB Weld withstand that kind of heat? (right there at the exhaust port). What I plan to use is a 2-56 size nipple, drill and tap the header, screw in the nipple with some LockTite and attach my silicone or tygon or neoprene tubing to that, depending on what kind of oil I use. Which type oil has the lowest smoke point temp?. If I hook all this up, and it doesn't work, I'll just save the stuff for another plane, remove the nipple, and just fill the hole with a 2-56 screw. Even if I don't get thick smoke, just so-so would be nice; it looks pretty cool with the standard exhaust smoke from a rich mixture, and I'm sure whatever I get will be thicker than that. Thanks for the help.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I just drill and tap for a standard Muffler Pressure Nipple (Available at your LHS). Just screw it in, and attach the oil line.

I use a smoke oil called UltraSmoke, it is incredible stuff, but last I heard it may not be available any more (I bought a few cases, so I still have some left - And no, I won't part with any). You can try calling them at (316) 522-4905 (Listen to the entire message, they will mention UltraSmoke at the end) But there are several others out there that work very well - Super Dri and Bennet's Best come to mind.

dlucas48

My Feedback: (1)

dlucas48
Super Contributor

Hello, did a search on smoke and you're post came up. Here's mine.





Posts: 51
Joined: 11/14/2002
From: Crosby, TX, USA
Status: online I've had success running smoke on 4 stroke glow motors by injecting the fluid into the muffler through the nipple, with the glow fuel tank vented to atmosphere. There is a loss of performance of maybe 300 rpm due to loss of muffler pressure, depending on the engine. I tried a Slimline Smoke Muffler on a 1.60 OS, with the muffler pressure connected. I could make more smoke by just runnig rich! THEN the fun started. I landed with a full tank. Some glow fuel, some smoke fluid. I had to dissasemble the entire system to clean it out! Here's the point-I'm putting a Funtana together with a Saito 100, and was wondering if the Slimline smoke muffler is worth the effort.......

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Check out this guys site.

He has a very informative video explaingin all the components needed and also tells ya how to install them. He's got videos of his own planes smoking like nuts. I'm not talking a little smoke---GOBS and GOBS of heavy smoke!!! VERY good system and easy to install.

You'll need a high speed connection. Video is pretty long

www.rcdon.com

RHarding

My Feedback: (3)

I'm putting together a Kangke (Super Kraft) 1/4 scale Monocoupe 90A and am planning to run smoke. G-26 up front. I'm new to smoke. Have been in RC since 1971 and have a general idea about how smoke works, but with the cost of a smoke set up I'd like to get it right the first time. What's the hot set up for smoke on a G-26?

Richard

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Richard, I'm a cheapskate at heart, so rather that spend $80 or so for a store-bought Smoker, I use a windshield washer replacement pump for JC Whitney (About 9 bucks)

Here's an article I wrote about the intricacies of Smoke, read it and you'll learn a lot:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=455

And here's a video of the smoker in action with a YS 91:

http://204.96.183.34/Skybolt/Videos/...t_high_res.wmv

RHarding

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks for the info MinnFlyer. That YS91 sure makes some nice smoke. I'm still wondering about a set up for the G-26 including info on smoke mufflers, pumps, etc. Who is the distributor for UltraSmoke.

Richard

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

You can use the same setup for a G-26. Just drill a hole in the muffler and add a piece of 1/8" copper tubing (Available at Auto Parts Stores). Use JB Weld to hold it in place.

3DAddiction

Regarding the Slimline smoke system and your Funtana. I have a Funtana 90s with the Slimline smoke system installed. This is the first plane that I've put a smoke system on so I to am new to this. I also have the Saito 100 with a Slimline smoke pit muffler installed. I'm using the MDW Aviation Super Dry Smoke Oil from Tower. The plane has made about 20 flights with no problems. However, this week I was unable to get the engine to turnover. After conversing with other members of my club, we discovered that there was no fuel making it to the carb. We checked all fuel lines and the vent line off the muffler and everything looked ok. We even primed the carb with a few drops of fuel and the engine kicked over. The only thing that I can think of at this time is that the muffler has gotten clogged somehow. So my next step is to examine the muffler (disassemble and clean). If this works I may need to treek the adjustment on the smoke pump a little more so that the muffler doesn't get clogged again. Not sure if this is any help or not, but thought you might want to know what I've experienced so far.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Try disconnecting the muffler pressure line and see if the engine will draw fuel. It seems to me that the only place the smoke could have affected the system is if it clogged the muffler pressure nipple.

And even then, that should not prevent the engine from drawing fuel. Even with a plugged vent, the engine should be able to draw a little bit. And if the engine started and ran once you primed the carb, it wouldn't have kept running if the line were plugged up.

dlucas48

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks, 3D. Let me know what you find. So, were you satisfied with the quantity of smoke, or was it kinda lame? (Would you spend the $ again?) Did you get any smoke oil in your fuel tank? Also, did you need any lead to balance the CG? How much, and where did your CG end up? (I've moved my rudder servo up to the wing tube area).
Thanks, D.

3DAddiction

Hey dlucas48,
I am perfectly satisfied with the amount of smoke. As a matter of fact, I think that I am still putting out too much. I have a 10oz tank for the smoke fuel which sits just about on the CG. The pump and battery for the pump is forward of the CG. I also have the receiver battery forward of the CG. Despite this, the plane was still tail heavy so I added 2.5oz of lead to the top of the front box just behind the engine. I'm going to try MinnFlyer's suggestion [thanks MinnFlyer!] and check the nipple to insure that it is not clogged. Also, despite adjusting the flow of smoke fuel with my transmitter end-points [I think I have it set at 30% which is the lowest I can go before the pump stops working], I'm going to add a needle valve between the pump and muffler so as to adjust the flow even more. I'm using Tower's Six Shooter for gas to pump the smoke fuel into the tank. I also used the DuBro gas tank plug and Tygon tubing for the fuel lines. The smoke fuel I use is a petrolium base fuel and will destroy glow fuel tubing [learned this the hard way]. I was advised early on not to use the same pump that I use for my glow fuel with the smoke fuel in order to avoid contaminating the glow fuel. As far as what I've invested in it [I think a little over $100.00] I am very pleased with the results so far and the spectators at the airfield are really impressed when I do my maneuvers and turn on the smoke. I'll let you all know what exactly the problem with it is after this weekend [provided of course if I'm able to figure it out and get it working]. I think I'm still in the tweaking stage for this system and I read somewhere that these systems are not just "set and forget" systems.

SoCalSal

My Feedback: (16)

Just a thought. I don't know what type of smoke oil you plan to use but being form the old school smoke set , I used diesel fuel as a smoke fluid. It puts out lots of smoke and you sure don't need much heat to do it.

Like I said... just a thought

RHarding

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks for the thought. What pump do you use?

Richard