Julian537

My Feedback: (9)

Ok here is my question. It is a multi part question.

Is there really a big difference in CA glues?

I have seen some really expensive glue, that claims it is the best.
I have seen some companies that claim their glue is cheaper or economy!

Prices for glue are all over the board.

Do some glues actually hold better. or are stronger than others?

What is the big claim of "Triple Distilled". Does that mean it is 3 times better?
I know that distilling take out the imperities.

Why does "Foam Safe" CA cost so much?

Why does some CA last longer than others in the bottle? is it more pure? I have found that the Great Planes glue lasts the longest after it is open.

Ok I am going to list a few names of CA glues. I have been told that there are olny 4-5 actual manufacturers in the world.
the rest of them are just different labels.
Does anyone know who makes all of these glues ?

Great planes ? who makes it for them
Zap made in Japan
Ok glue distributed by Zap as an economy glue. SGI sticky Group international
Flash marketed by Horizon and made by NHP co in Massachusetts looks like handibond bottles!
BSI "Bob Smith" California
Handibond PK industries out of south carolina
Hyperbond- looks like handibond same bottles
BalsaUSA looks like handibond too
HotStuff glue http://www.txcaglue.com/ huntington TX B&L distributors "Satelitte City"
Tower Glue
Palm Lab Adhesives http://www.palmlabsadhesives.com/ca%20glue.htm

carrellh

I do not know anything about glue but will relay my experience with a few CA brands. I have zero experience with 'foam safe' CA.

I've tried the following brands
Zap
Great Planes
Bob Smith - BSI
PK Industries

Zap always works well for me and stays fresh but is most expensive and not always available at the LHS

I've had very good results with the Great Planes branded glue also but it is relatively expensive and not always available at the LHS

BSI is least expensive and is available everywehere but this CA has been inconsistent for me. I bought 2 bottles of thin on the same day. Bottle number 1 wouldn't bond balsa; it soaked in or evaporated but the sticks did not bond. Opened bottle number 2 and it worked the way it should. Since then I avoid the BSI stuff.

I currently use and like the PK Industries CA. Seems to stay fresh and it works as well as Zap or GP for me. The price is better than Zap or GP and I have to mail order anyway to get a brand I like.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

CA dries when exposed to air. Some bottles allow air to penetrate more than others.

I store my CA in a closed Tupperware kind of container with packs of dessicant in it. Don't put accelerator in the container.

Hobbytown brand CA works well and has less smell than others that I've tried.

Julian537

My Feedback: (9)

Does anyone else know about CA ?

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

""BSI is least expensive and is available everywehere but this CA has been inconsistent for me""

me too, I wont buy it again !!!!!!!!!!

Jim

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I use whatever is cheap, and/or available.

If someone told me "Brand "Z" is specially formulated to run faster and jump higher - but costs twice as much" I won't be using Brand "Z"

If the cheap stuff will cause the wood to split before breaking the bond, how much better do I need it to be???

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Back when I was still using CA for building (I have converted to using wood glue now) I used the "store brand" from our local Hobby Lobby store (the craft store, not the hobby shop). Since we don't have a LHS it was easier to get this. I learned recently that it's repackaged from another CA manufacturer, so it's the same as the name brand only less expensive.

Ken

rcmiket

I've been using the Bob Smith brand for years without any problems at all. I keep a few spare bottles frozen till opened. CA does not store well open in hot places. Find a cool spot after its opened and it seems to last longer, or maybe I just use it up fast. Mike

Ernie Misner

Store it in the refrigerator between building sprees. Do not spend much time worrying about which brand might be the strongest, because for most joints that are glued together, the true strength comes from the framework and design. Of course wing center joints should have 30 minute epoxy or similar. I would be more concerned about breathing the fumes from CA than anything, which is not to be taken lightly. Those building experiences where the fumes begin to burn the lungs and eyes should become a thing of the past.

Ernie

Julian537

My Feedback: (9)

I wish a manufacturer would chime in here and tell us the big difference. What makes their product better than the others.

I appreciate everyones comments so far , but
this thread is not about CA warnings and not about how to store CA so it lasts longer.

I really want to know about CA and why one is better than the other. Something has to be different! or is it just the price!

Semi Retired Aviator

RCKen I agree on the wood glue. It's far better, in my opinion, for WOOD!! More time to work before it goes off too, and if I need to keep working, I use wood glue inside the joint and tack the outside with CA, or pin it, and get on with the job. Using a hair dryer or heat gun will accelerate the curing of wood glue down to a couple of minutes.

You're right Minn Flyer; if the wood tears before the bond breaks, then how much stronger do you need??

But back to Julian's question. I think it's only the price that differs. I've used about half a dozen different CA's, conducted a few tests in trying to break the joint, but the balsa gives out first. Not a very scientific test, I know, but it's probably good enough to say that there isn't much difference between CA's.

It seems to me that most CA's are programmed to dry up a certain time after the tube is opened.

Newc

I have found that Zap is better than the others when at the field and making repairs. It seems to be much less affected by residual oil on the parts, and seems to penetrate better.

I also like the longer shelf life of the Zap, and it simply seems to be the best for me. When I look at the overall, total cost of the planes I build, the difference in price between Bob Smith, Bob Smith rebrabds, etc. and Zap just isn't significant. I also like supporting those companies that put some of the money they make back into the hobby, as Zap does and the others don't seem to do.

As to storage - Store in refrigerator until open. However, the suggestion to store in refrigerator after opening is not good. It will absorb moisture when cooled and them warmed up, severly reducing the effectiveness and shelf life of the CyA.

carrellh

If you want anything other than marketing info or people’s personal experiences you’ll have to buy a bunch of glue and do some experiments.

If a manufacturer did comment, they’d probably just copy and paste their marketing info from their web page. Here are several links. Each one says their glue is best.
http://ca-plus.com/index.html hyperbond, PKIndustries
http://www.bsiadhesives.com/ Bob Smith, many LHS store brand
http://www.zapglue.com/ Zap
http://www.handibond.com/ Handibond, Balsa USA(?)
http://www.greatplanes.com/accys/adhesives.html

Ernie Misner

>>> As to storage - Store in refrigerator until open. However, the suggestion to store in refrigerator after opening is not good. It will absorb moisture when cooled and them warmed up, severly reducing the effectiveness and shelf life of the CyA. >>>

Thanks for your thoughts on that. As with photographic products though, it is best to let it warm up before uncapping again. I have some CA that has been in the fridge for several years, and after warming it seems to work fine for my applications. For extremely critical applications (do I have any?, lol), new and fresh would remove any doubts.

Does anyone know how many actual MANUFACTURERS of CA there are? I imagine that most of it is relabeled to different brands.

Ernie

bentgear

I forget who posted this link some time back, maybe a couple of years, but its a very good read.

[link]http://www.devicelink.com/mddi/archive/99/09/006.html[/link]

Ed M.

kdheath

Model Research Labs has stopped selling CA, but they had a very cogent page about CA that made a good argument that there is are differences between brands. Sorry I can't quote it. But the idea was that cheaper CAs have more fillers and thus aren't as strong. The ultimate CA would be water thin and crystal clear.

Before someone goes bananas defending their favorite, this is not to say that you can't get good results with the CA of your choice. The real issues are the age and storage conditions of the glue. Buy from someone who turns their inventory, and better yet, keeps the stock cold. Humidity is what triggers the glue to fire. That's why it fires fast on balsa and slower on hardwoods, and slowest of all on plastics and metal that have no moisture. And the glue ages, so long storage uses up the life span of the glue. Refigeration slows the rot.

Now the personal piece-I've had perfect results from ZAP, used a lot of Goldberg Jet years ago with good luck, had so-so luck with Bob Smith (sometimes it is just obviously old), and found the grocery store stuff like Super Glue to be garbage. My time isn't worth a few bucks a year futzing with dodgy glues.

sebo

Tried a brand called "HOT STUFF" when CA's hit the market. It hardened in a couple of weeks.
Been using zap, exclusively, since it started being marketed. Never had a problem. I don't put it in the refrig or in the freezer. I keep at least two 2 oz bottles on the shelf at all times (sometimes as many as 6 or 7 when I am on a giant scale project. I have kept it on the shelf for as much as 8 to 9 months without any issues. I keep a bottle on my workbench all the time.
I have never put a cap on it. I use it up in 3 to 4 months unless I am in a serious building spree.
To me there will never be another brand unless Frank T goes out of business.
I also like the support that Frank gives to the hobby. I've never seen the other glue manufactures put out anything for the hobby. They take your money and are through with you.
That's my 2 cents worth.
Ron

Mode One

Over the years I've used most of the big named brands and some of the more obscure. Basically, I find no real difference in the bonding capabilities of any. I've had little real difficulties with any brand. I think the Zap brand seems to have better luck with longevity and maybe they use higher quality packaging, hence the higher cost. I used to use Zap almost exclusively. Not because it was better but I seemed to have less problems with the spout clogging.

I never stopped using alphatic resin glues (Titebond etc.). there are jobs where it just seems to be the best choice.

WILDCRASHWILLY

I normally use GP (because IMHO Zap is too expensive) with good results. I have used Zap; and Hotstuff both with good results. I tried a couple bottles of Bob Smith one time, never again, ended up throwing it away. It had started setting up and getting too thick in the bottle. It appeared to be aged.

Julian537

My Feedback: (9)

I guess we have not really gotten anywhere with this post! We still do not know if one has a magic part to it? that makes it $2-$3 more than the other brand ?
Or if one truly is stronger than another?
There has to be a modeler out there that knows the real story behind the glue!!!!!!

Ernie Misner

Julian, I think if there were a big difference between brands (for our purposes), we would know it by now...:-)

Ernie

sebo

Why don't you just take the time to contact the various CA companies and ask them?
They can each tell you what you want to know. This is getting ridiculous.

bentgear

Julian, did you bother to read the link I posted. If you did you would know that there are several types of CA glue. Only by contacting the folks with their name on the bottle and finding out who bottled it for them, if they will tell you, and then contacting them will you find the answer to your question. I think there are several chemical companies making the base stock.

Ed M.

SigMan

My Feedback: (21)

i think i got a bad bottle of great plane foam safe CA, why, i just tried to glue two wing halves together and came back 35 miniutes later and glue had not even set-up the 2 wings fell apart...the bottle says 2 miniuts to fully cure...dont buy GP foam safe CA!

SLJ2137694

My Feedback: (33)

Hey SigMan, I assume you were joining a foam wing. CA requires moisture to cure and foam doesn't absorb moisture very well. I suggest that you mist some accelerator or water over the joint to get the CA to cure. I recently ran into the same issue and this took care of the problem. I don't remember the brand of CA I was using. I would bet your CA is OK to use.