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Japanese silk tissue question

Old 04-03-2006, 02:21 PM
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bammer
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Default Japanese silk tissue question

Hi,

I'm building a kit plane that I'm about to cover with lt. wt. Japanese silk from Sig. It says it is covered with butryte dope (or something like that). I'm assuming I'll need to apply some addhesive to the balso itself. Do I iron the tissue on or just apply the tissue and shrink it somehow. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

Patrick
Old 04-03-2006, 03:00 PM
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rainedave
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Default RE: Japanese silk tissue question

Hi bammer. Here is the best and easiest way to cover with Jap tissue:

1. After sanding the framework nice and smooth, brush on three coats of full-strength NITRATE dope - NOT butyrate - around the edges of the structure where the tissue needs to adhere, letting it dry between each coat. Nitrate has more solids and sticking power than butyrate and works much, much better.

2. Lightly sand the final coat of nitrate to remove any bumps.

3. Lay the piece of tissue over the structure and brush straight dope thinner onto the tissue. Rub the wet area with your finger against the wood where the dried nitrate was applied. The thinner will disolve the nitrate just enough to stick the tissue down. Let it dry for a few seconds and then gently pull the tissue taught across to the other side of the srtructure and adhere it the same way. If you have a wrinkle, you can brush on more thinner to loosen the tissue and pull it tight.

4. After the thinner and nitrate have dried (5 to 10mins.) you can lightly mist the covering with water using a spray bottle. Don't drench the tissue, just get it nice and damp. As the tissue dries it will shrink tight.

5. Once dry, brush on two to three coats of nitrate dope thinned 50/50 with thinner. Let this dry several hours to overnight.

6. You can now apply butyrate dope to fuel proof the covering if necessary. You can put butyrate over nitrate, but never put nitrate over butyrate, it won't work.

Let me know if you have questions.
Old 04-03-2006, 03:12 PM
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bammer
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Default RE: Japanese silk tissue question

thanks for the help. the tissue already has the butyrate in it. doest this change any of your instructions?

thanks again
Old 04-03-2006, 04:36 PM
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Default RE: Japanese silk tissue question

Patrick, the tissue will not have any dope already on it. Esaki (Japanese) tissue that is distributed by SIG has a shiny side and a dull side. The shiny side goes to the outside, but it is not pre-treated with any dope. What SIG means in their description is that you use dope to apply it. Their words are confusing and misleading, but the tissue has no dope on it.

One tip:If your wing has dihedral, cover the bottom first. When you cut the piece for the top of the wing, cut the edge that will be attached to the dihedral joint with a convex curve. This will prevent you from getting a sag in the tissue near the center of the wing. See pic below:

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Old 04-03-2006, 04:49 PM
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bammer
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Default RE: Japanese silk tissue question

thanks alot!
Old 04-22-2006, 08:58 PM
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Default RE: Japanese silk tissue question

Hi
I have a question.
I'm just getting back into stick and tissue after 30 years
Any way I have been experimenting with panels, before I actually dope up my plane.
So I doped the wood test frame 1.5"x 5" with nitrate dope two coat put down the tissue doped it down to the wood.
When it dried I wet it with damp water and it shrunk tight when it dried.
The problem I had was when I brushed the nitrate dope on the covering to seal it, the tissue went all loose from the wet dope.
When the dope dried it was not as tight as before.
Any tips to prevent this? Am I pressing to hard with the brush and stretching the tissue?
I'm using Sig brand dope.

Thanks
Glen
Old 04-23-2006, 08:17 AM
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paladin
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Default RE: Japanese silk tissue question

Glen, your problem is pretty common it is caused by doping the center while the edges are still wet. As you apply a coat of dope it disolves the layer under the tissue untill the solvents are spread thin enough to prevent it from going deeper. At this point if you push on it it will pull away from where you have it tacked, also if you put the dope down in the center and work out can cause this also. I usually paint the frame first (on a Giant Scale one bay at a time), doing the frame for top of one bay then doing the bottom of that bay's frame. If the dope has dried enough on the top I'll paint the tissue inside of it. If not I'll continue on painting the fraimwork of an ajacent bay on th bottom, then its corresponding frame on the top. Then go back and dope the centers of the bays. If ther is any dought about dry enough or not lay a monokote trim iron on the wet area and if you don't get any dope boiling its dri enough. The trim Iron method is also a good way to get difficult areas to go were you want them too. You can also use the trim iron to iron out most of the wrinkles you caused by a wet fram pulling.

I could go on and on

Joe
Old 04-29-2006, 05:21 PM
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Default RE: Japanese silk tissue question

Thanks Joe that is good info to know. Any more tips would be greatly appreciated!!
I have finally got my hands on some Nitrate dope, instead of the Butrate.
I've started doing my Guillows Mustang 27" wing. I'm using the 00 Silkspan that I picked up at the LHS.
It is going ok I find the bigger the piece I put on the more likely-hood of it wrinkling.
So will be putting on smaller pieces at a time. I'm putting the tissue on damp.
Thanks
Glen :-)
ORIGINAL: paladin

Glen, your problem is pretty common it is caused by doping the center while the edges are still wet. As you apply a coat of dope it disolves the layer under the tissue untill the solvents are spread thin enough to prevent it from going deeper. At this point if you push on it it will pull away from where you have it tacked, also if you put the dope down in the center and work out can cause this also. I usually paint the frame first (on a Giant Scale one bay at a time), doing the frame for top of one bay then doing the bottom of that bay's frame. If the dope has dried enough on the top I'll paint the tissue inside of it. If not I'll continue on painting the fraimwork of an ajacent bay on th bottom, then its corresponding frame on the top. Then go back and dope the centers of the bays. If ther is any dought about dry enough or not lay a monokote trim iron on the wet area and if you don't get any dope boiling its dri enough. The trim Iron method is also a good way to get difficult areas to go were you want them too. You can also use the trim iron to iron out most of the wrinkles you caused by a wet fram pulling.

I could go on and on

Joe
Old 06-21-2006, 09:02 AM
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Jagdgeschwader 26
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Default RE: Japanese silk tissue question

Has anyone ever published a "how to" article on those fabulous silk and dope finishes the CL stunt guys seem to take for granted? I have tried to duplicate those finishes without even coming close.

If there is already an article published on another forum, please let me know.

Sorry if this is somewhat off-topic.
Old 06-21-2006, 09:15 AM
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Lightfoot
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Default RE: Japanese silk tissue question

I thnik this is what you are looking for.

[link=http://webpages.charter.net/rcfu/HelpsHints/SSCover.html]Silkspan Covering[/link]
Old 06-21-2006, 01:25 PM
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Jagdgeschwader 26
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Default RE: Japanese silk tissue question

That's it!

Thanks!

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