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B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Old 03-02-2003, 06:15 PM
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RandyL
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

I'm needing to install a B&B pump on my G-38 powered airplane. All I have to work with is the pump and a valve. The valve is what I think is a newer style, red anodized with a metal plunger for on / off control.
The line sizes from the pump to the valve are dramatically different in size with the pump nipples being very large. Do you use adapters to downsize it all? Will the same fuel line I use for the carb be large enough for the smoke system? Do you use a manual flow control ( needle valve ) in the system for optimal preformance? Does the pump have to be close to the motor as not to loose pump impulse, or is there special line for this?
The list goes on and on..... I would appreciate some help from the experienced crowd.... Thanks.
Old 03-02-2003, 08:41 PM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

You need to get adapters to go from the large tubing down to the standard size. I have found these at auto supply stores. I don't know about the length of the tubing vs loosing impuls pressure, I'm running about 1 ft of tubing with no problem.

And yes, you DO need some type of flow regulator, but just running the oil line to the muffler through a wheel collar works fine. Tighten the set screw in the wheel collar to regulate the flow.
Old 03-02-2003, 09:01 PM
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RandyL
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Thanks Mike, I was wondering about having a metering device of sorts for a flow control. Never thought of a wheel collar though. I was looking at Aquaium air flow valves. The wheel collar may be the least complicated if I can get to it behind the cowling. I assume that you would put the wheel collar close to the muffler, not between the tank and valve.
It is a major tear down on my big bipe to get the wings off and the motor unbolted to install a pressure tap and smoke muffler. I want to try to get it all installed properly the first time.
Thanks for the post.
Old 03-03-2003, 04:03 PM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Correct, the valve would go between the valve and the muffler. Here's another one that you could make from a piece of dowel:
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Old 03-03-2003, 04:36 PM
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Bish Wheeler
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Hey guys,

you just solved a year old problem for me. My smoke pump worked great at low rpm, but at high rpm it just flooded out....needed the regulator to cut down on the amount of oil. DUH!

Bish
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Old 03-04-2003, 01:33 AM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Good to hear that you may have solved a problem that I sure don't want to have to deal with.
While I'm at it... how much fluid would you reccomend carrying for a G-38? I am using it for simulated field spraying so it won't be on long on each pass...no long airbatic routines. Do you think that 16 oz will do 4 -5 passes? That may be a total of 60 seconds or so.
I like the dowel and screw idea also. I could glue the dowel into the airframe and have the screw on the outside where it is adjustable easily.
My idea is to have the smoke activated via the throttle stick. Hope to mix it to the last few clicks so as not to have to mess with switchs at low altitude.
I thank you much for the advice.
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Old 03-04-2003, 01:38 AM
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Bish Wheeler
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Randy,

Mine is a 16 oz tank in 1/4 scale Tiger Moth with a US41. The oil seems to last a long time (even on mine that was screwed up) so I think you should be OK. What are you using to make the smoke?

Bish
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Old 03-04-2003, 04:10 AM
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RandyL
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Bish, The 16oz tank sounds good then. I've heard stories of having to have 32oz tanks to get any smoke time at all. I was hoping it would not take that amount for what I intend to do.
As far as what I am using to make smoke.... The muffler is a B&B and the fluid is Air Hobbies as I recall.
I bought a TME smoke pump a few years back but heard so many leak and non-work stories that I decided not to use it in this project. I had bought a gallon of fluid back then also.
I'll still use the TME but in a more accessable airframe. What fluid are you using? Homemade...store bought??
Thanks!
Old 03-04-2003, 04:45 AM
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Bish Wheeler
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

I use the store bought stuff, can't think of the name right now and I'm too lazy to walk out to the shop to see what it is. All I know is it doesn't stink like deisel oil. I used to fly air shows (full size) in a 450 Stearman I owned for about 15 years. When I ran out of Corvus oil ( the stuff that they use in pole transformer pots) we would use deisel. Yuck, I hate that smell. I can't even stand to ride in my son's Dodge 4X4 dsl pickup.

Bish
Old 03-04-2003, 05:34 PM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

I use Ultrasmoke from Air Capital Hobbies. It's not petroleum based, so it doesn't stink or attack foam or covering, and it gives TONS of smoke. Here's a pic of my GP Skybolt with a YS 91AC and a TME Simplesmoker (The B&B is better, but I can't put it on this engine)

more pics and videos at:

http://204.96.183.34/Skybolt/
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Old 03-05-2003, 01:17 AM
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RandyL
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Now that is SMOKE! Thats what all the effort is about. Looks like you have it all figured out. Hope mine is even close to that when I'm done.
Old 03-05-2003, 08:00 PM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Here's where to get it:

http://www.aircapitalhobbies.com/ultsmk.htm
Old 03-15-2003, 11:32 PM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

I am up and running! The B&B system is installed and works well.
I used a 16 oz B&B tank for smoke oil, a wheel collar on the line just before the Y connector at the muffler, and mounted the servo and valve to a seperate board and attached it to the inner fuse wall with a couple of screws. It all worked perfect the first time, just as I was hoping for...thanks for the help.
It is too windy to fly today but it sure smokes up the yard!! I used switch 5 to control the smoke servo and then mixed switch 5 to the throttle and set it to work at 85% throttle and over. A click or two on the throttle stick turns the smoke on and off while flying..no messing with switch 5 other than to lock the system out so that the throttle will not operate it.
I'll be anxious to get it in the air...it is now all reassembled and setting in the garage awaiting a bit better weather. If this works as it appears, I'll make up the spray tubes to exhaust the smoke through to complete the illusion.
Randy
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Old 03-16-2003, 05:05 AM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Hey Randyl...
Congrats on gettting your smoke system up and running! I take it your intention is to run the smoke out of spray booms aft of the lower wing ala the full size Ag Cat's setup. I've seen pics of some others "spraying" this way and it's awesome! I haven't seen closeups of the booms however. Are they simply drilled out across the boom, or do the booms have nozzles or simulated nozzles? My two favorite planes are the Corsair and the Ag Cat. Yours looks just great. Built from plans or your own drawings? Good job either way. Keep us posted on what's to come as the weather improves.
Old 03-16-2003, 09:07 PM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Grampaw... I built the Ag-Cat from a set of plans. It was / is a strange story too. I was at a local airport on a Saturday afternoon and spotted an Ag-Cat that was there for service work. I made the 30 minute drive home to get a camera and returned and took 2 rolls of film with intentions of drawing plans and building one of these gorgeous aircraft.
Left the airport the second time, went to a 1 hour photo and got the pics developed. Once home I stopped at the mail box and there was a plans catalog from Model Builder magazine in the mail. I opened it up, and there were the plans for the Ag-Cat! I ordered them that afternoon and never looked back.

I am not going to use any nozzles but intend to graduate the holes in the tubing to attempt to get an even spray pattern out of the tubes. It will be a trial and error type deal.

Have a look at my homepage and it will take you to the Ag-Cat page where you can see a bit of the project. Will have to update it a bit if this spray idea works..
Old 03-17-2003, 04:52 AM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

An old yellowed page from Model Builders in my files has some line art showing how one Control Liner drilled holes in tubing to make a spray boom for his CL model. The holes were drilled starting with small holes, increasing to largest in sizes as he went outward. No specs were given on drill sizes though, but I suppose it would depend on the length of tubing. Nozzles really would be a bunch of work! Thanks for the site address, I'll give a look. I miss living out in the country and having friends who were "Back and Forth Pilots" flying those Cats, rattling my shingles going over when they were working in my vicinity. Good flying!
Old 03-17-2003, 05:52 PM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

BTW, in about a week or two, when your wife says:

"Honey? Why is that patch of grass in our yard dead?"

Just act dumb.

It worked for me.
Old 03-18-2003, 05:28 AM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Yea, I found out how good a lawn killer smoke fuel is the same way.

I was running my G-38 with some generic smoke oil, had a lot of fun turning it on and off, seemed to work just fine the way it was. Ran the tank dry and put the plane away. Next day or so there was a triangular patch of dead grass in the front lawn about 15 feet long.

For the life of me I couldn't figure out what happened until the little lady reminded me that the patch started where I was running the plane.

Grew back after a few weeks with no mutations, so I think that the oil is safe!
Old 03-18-2003, 11:50 AM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

I see that happening here too...pretty good stain in the yard where it was tied down while 2 of the 16oz tanks were used up. Luckily, I was in a place rather out of the way from normal yard traffic. I was there trying to stay out of the 20 mph wind. Now it looks like something that would track through the house if you walked in it.....that would NOT be good!

I checked out the web site for the smoke oil. It was where I thought it was, In Wichita Ks. It is only a couple hour drive from where I am, up here close to Topeka. I'll be getting some of thier fluid to use for sure.
Old 03-25-2003, 08:33 PM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Beautiful weekend for a test flight, and it works GREAT! Here is a big loop up high. Just showing off..
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Old 03-25-2003, 08:34 PM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

and a nice cruise by for looks.....
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Old 03-25-2003, 08:37 PM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Finally, lined up on the field for a "spray" run. Can't wait to get it plumbed out the wing tubes and better smoke fluid. The smell of the smoke drifting across the field reminds you of the old castor burning engines, Aaahhhhhhhhhh.......
Mixing the smoke to the throttle stick was a huge success. Highly reccomended. Thanks to all for the tips and help.
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Old 03-25-2003, 10:38 PM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Sweeeeet!

What oil did you use?
Old 03-26-2003, 12:14 PM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

This oil is Air Hobbies, I believe it is out of N.C. It is the only gallon I have of it. I think I bought it at a Byrons event in Iowa years ago. It has been on the shelf waiting on me...Seems to work well but my next purchase will be what you suggested.
Old 04-03-2003, 06:57 AM
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Default B&B Smoke pump / G-38 question

Hey guys! GREAT SMOKE!! I just flew my new bipe w/ smoke for the first time last weekend. I have the B & B setup as well. I am using liquid paraffin for my smoke oil. It is the stuff that restaurants use in their floating candles! I get it at the local restaurant supply house for about $7.00 a gallon! One of the guys in my club cuts his with a little kerosene just to lube the o'rings in his valves (he says that the paraffin dries out the o'rings). I have not noticed any ill-effects on the covering, but not sure about it being foam safe.

the sky is quite grey in the background here, but believe me, it smokes like crazy! I can't wait to post some pics with a blue sky background!!!

Regards,

Astrohog
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