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Need your suggestion for a small biplane

Old 03-08-2003, 06:45 PM
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BMAC2
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

I would like to build and fly a small biplane. Please give me suggestions of kits that have good instructions and materials in a .25-.40 size. Many biplanes look better than they fly. It is important that it also flies and lands well. Thanks for your help!
Old 03-08-2003, 07:31 PM
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YNOT
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

Your asking for allot. A small bipe, that files really well???? Not too sure there is such a plane.

Years ago, there were some small Christen Eagle's that Pilot made. They were 25 size planes but need a strong 40-45 to fly it, and a BEAR to get on the ground. There have been several ARF small bipes, however all suffer the same thing.

Best small Bipe I have flown is the Dave Patrick 40 size Ultimate. It too is an ARF.

Small bipes a squirrelly. You have to land them hot, very hot. Good for a Jet trainer.
Old 03-08-2003, 09:20 PM
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

Das Box Fly was produced by Pilot. Flies on a OS .25 and does fly well. Kit was really easy to put together. Only thing, you never know which direction within 90 degrees that it will take off. Flies well, lands easily. I used to take off beyond everyone so there was no way I was going to buzz anybody!
Old 03-08-2003, 10:16 PM
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jetmex-RCU
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

Check out the Sig Smith Miniplane, it's a 44 inch wingspan for .40-.46 2 strokes. Balsa USA kits the EAA Bipe and Rich Uravitch has an Se-5A and a Fokker D7 that are just a little bigger.

www.sigmfg.com

www.balsausa.com

www.richuravitch.com ?
Old 03-08-2003, 10:30 PM
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bugsiegel
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Default Here's a nice bipe

Hobby People
waco .32
i think it calls for a .25 to a bushing .40
I have one that I haven't flown yet but have finished.
last year I had a chance at a fellow club members and immediately put in my Christmas order with my wife.
he had an LA 40 in it and it flew nice. Snapped-rolled like nothing i've ever seen.
he started with a magnum .30 four stroke or something like that but it was just too underpowered. then he made the switch to the LA and the plane came alive. took off fine once you had the hang of the ground handling and landed even nicer.
the only modifications i've heard of is to reinforce the landing gear block.
the photo shows the grey but that one is hard to see in the air
the white and red one is the color to get.
I have an os.32sx in mine. I'm waiting for the right day to take it out.
if you do a search on waco 30 you'll find some past threads.
good luck
Old 03-08-2003, 10:44 PM
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

What about the Great Planes Ultimate? I've not built or flown this plane, but I've flown the simulator on my computer, and built a few of their other kits. If the flight characteristics are anything close to that of the flight simulator, it's a winner. Only reason I've never tried it is the wingspan seems it would be too small for me to see at distances. (I like at least 60" ws). This size will allow use of standard servos as well.
Old 03-08-2003, 11:02 PM
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BMAC2
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

Thanks for sharing all of the great suggestions. All of the small bipes I have seen land hot and are a bear to taxi. Is the Das Box Fly by Pilot still available?
Old 03-09-2003, 12:19 AM
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Default Profile Biplane

I built a Sig Ultimate Biplane Fun Fly profile. It's a great flier. I put an OS61FX on it and put 4 aileron servos in it. The servos are Hitec HS-81. I also put to HS-81 in the tail for the elevators. And one JR 517 for the rudder.

It is a nice fun fly plane.
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Old 03-09-2003, 04:10 AM
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susquach
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

BMAC2,

Remember the GEEBEE DREAMER. It's a great flying little bipe. The British market a .25 size bipe that I can't think of the name of right now. It's a good flying plane. The roll rate is a little slow though. Maybe someone else can come up with it's name.
Old 03-09-2003, 05:12 AM
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

Don't know if still available but here is an example of a great Das Box Fly 20W.
http://members.lycos.nl/franshop/dasbox.htm

and then there is mine!

Just did a look and Udisco doesn't list the 20W so I guess they're not available.
Maybe someone here has a kit sitting on the shelf??
Old 03-09-2003, 02:27 PM
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Dsegal
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

The Dreamer looks like a lovely plane and the kit is available from Tower. Not a quick build, though. Is the British kit ddubya mentioned the Bi-Fly? I tried to locate one in the UK but the factory burned down a couple of years ago and then I found out that it is quite overweight.

Dave Segal
Old 03-09-2003, 02:54 PM
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susquach
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

BMA,

yeah, the plane I was trying to think of was the BiFly. I think it was marketed by Hobby Lobby. I built one a few years ago and it's an OK little plane. I've also built the GEEBEE and really like it. The fuse is "built-up" as opposed to sheet structure...outside of that it's about as easy to build as a bipe gets. The instruction are old school (minimal) but if you've built a plane, you shouldn't have a problem.
The only draw-back that I've noticed in the Geebee is that it doesn't like cross winds. Most bipes are a little testy in that regard, but GeeBees fuselage shape seems to magnify the problem. As soon as the plane gets to flying speed, the problem goes away.
Old 03-09-2003, 04:58 PM
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MAJSteve
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

IF you can find one, the Ziroli Stearman made back in the 70's/80's is a good one. I have two and they don't have to come in fast at all. Takeoff IS a little squirrley if you jamb the throttle though.

The keys in making a biplane handle nice in the air are a good heavy motor in front so you don't add dead weight, a real light tail (sand it as much as you dare, then bracing wires), and the wings should be set up with some incidence differences, like 0 on the bottom and 3 on the top. Seems like it doesn't matter if its positive or negative, but it varies by plane design.
Old 03-09-2003, 06:53 PM
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BMAC2
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

I checked out the Tower listing for the Gee Bee Dreamer and it looks promising. It certainly requires a big engine for so little wing span. I have built several kits before so I think I could build it even though the instructions aren't very good. I was hoping for a .25 size but the Dreamer may have to do. Too bad so many of the good old kits are no longer available. Thanks everyone for your suggestions!
Old 03-09-2003, 10:31 PM
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CafeenMan
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

BMAC2 - A small bipe doesn't need to be squirrely or hot. A lot of that is in the hands of the builder. You have to get the wing incidence right. Normally this means a lot of test flight/tweak, test flight/tweak.

Also, keep the weight reasonable. The Sig Smith Miniplane is a great bipe. It's not a hot-dog by any means, but it flies well and is aerobatic. It could use ailerons on the top wing though. It's not the fastest rolling plane around.

As far as ground-handling goes, bipes aren't hard to taxi. You have to use the elevator to hold the tail down like any other plane and don't turn it too fast.

The reason you see these problems is that a lot of guys try to handle bipes like their sport monoplanes. You have to handle them differently. For example most sport planes are low to the ground with unrealistically wide gear. A bipe has that extra wing on top which raises the CG. If you try to yank it around on the ground, you'll flip it over.

Also, a lot of guys like to jam the throttle forward on take off instead of easing into it. That's asking for a ground loop. You won't see too many good pilots jam the throttle full open when the plane is standing still on the ground or in a slow taxi.

Basically what I'm saying is that bipes have gotten a bad rap because the sport planes we fly are forgiving of a lot of really bad habits. If you're a good pilot, then you won't have any problem with bipes.
Old 03-09-2003, 10:32 PM
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CafeenMan
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

PS. If you like scale bipes and don't mind building from plans, then Gordon Whitehead has designed several really pretty .25 size models and published them in Radio Control Modeler. Check with RCM.
Old 03-09-2003, 10:53 PM
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susquach
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

hey,
Cafeenman is right. Whitehead's little Jungmiester is a terrific little bipe. Built one a couple years ago and enjoyed it as much as anything I've ever flown. He really knocked that one out of the park. It requires a fair amount of building for a small plane, but it's well worth the time to do it.
Old 03-09-2003, 11:32 PM
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CafeenMan
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

I've always wanted to build that Jungmeister, ddubya. Just never sent the money for the plans, but it's on my "someday" list. Actually, it's not on my someday list on my website because I forgot about it, but it's getting added. Beautiful little bipe.
Old 03-10-2003, 02:35 AM
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BMAC2
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

Thanks for the tip on the Gordon Whitehead Jungmeister plans from RCM. I am very interested and will definitely check it out. It didn't occur to me that small bipes don't have to be squirrelly since all of them that I have watched have been!
Old 03-10-2003, 02:52 AM
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susquach
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

Caffeenman,

after I posted , I pulled the plans out for the Jungmeister. Geez, think I.m going to have to do another. Flew the first one for a while and in a weaker moment, sold it to a friend. You probubly know how that goes, six momths later you wish you hadn't done that. When you get around to yours, note that Tupperwear makes a bowl that can be used as a mold. The shape is a bit more accurate than the plan, and the right size. Talk about your case of serendipity! Instead of cycle style fender I used wheel pants and it jazzed it up pretty good. Stuck a OS .40 FP on the nose and went flying. Too much power, but that's what throttles are for. The little guy flew like it was on rails. The darned thing thought it was a Kaos! At any rate, try the Tupperware bowl thing, it works great.
Old 03-10-2003, 03:05 AM
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CafeenMan
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

ddubya - I've built two Sig Smith Miniplanes and have my third under construction. You can see photos of it all over my web site as examples for this tip or that.

I sold one (1979ish) of them to a guy in the club for a less than it was worth (silked and doped), but it wasn't totally unreasonable either. That taught me a lesson though. What I mean is it taught me a lesson about WHO to sell my planes to.

Originally it had a Fox .45 BB Schneurle in it and it flew very well on that engine. He proceeds to put a piped .60 on it and flew it into a tree a week or two later. Even though it wasn't mine any more, I just wanted to cry. Months of work splattered by a moron who couldn't begin to appreciate the building involved in that model. Now I prefer to sell my planes to people out of state so I don't have to see what happens to them.

PS. I like the fenders better than wheel pants. I could probably find a round balloon wheel and glass the whole thing and then cut it in half to get two parts out of one.
Old 03-10-2003, 11:38 AM
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Default The Ultimate from Global Hobby

I have an ultimate from Global Hobby. It is great, powered with a OS 46FX with a Pitts muffler.

Flies beautifully, excellent construction, and cheap.
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Old 03-10-2003, 11:42 AM
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Default another one

Here's another angle....
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Old 03-11-2003, 04:29 PM
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M Gill
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

BMAC2

If you are not afraid of scratch building, try to find yourself a nice old set of Aeromaster plans. That was a great flying biplane.

Someone mentioned the Uravitch SE-5a and Fokker D-VII. Someone else mentioned Ziroli's PT-17 (77" wingspan).

I make kits for these three planes, but I think you probably want something a little smaller. Again, if you can find an old kit and/or plans for the aeromaster, I think you will love the plane.

Mace Gill
The Aeroplane Works
http://www.theaeroplaneworks.com
Old 04-19-2003, 02:15 AM
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Dsegal
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Default Need your suggestion for a small biplane

I have just accidentally discovered the origin of the Dreamer bipe. It was a construction article in the June 1972 isssue of Flying Models magazine and the plan is no. CF-266. I learned this when I saw the cover of the October 1992 issue of FM with a photo of the Dreamer as it contained a review of the kit version by Don Typond.

Dave Segal

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