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80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

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80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

Old 04-28-2003, 05:59 PM
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aeroflyer
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Default 80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

Hello. Yesturday(4/27/03), I was flyng my Cap 232 for the first time this season. It was about the 8th or 9th flight on it. I was doing a low pass and the entire wing started to flutter really bad. I later found out that I was going to fast out of a dive. Does anyone know how I can prevent this from happening again? Has anyone lengthened the wing tube to put more support in the wing? That thought has crossed my mind.
Thanks,
Matt
Old 04-28-2003, 06:33 PM
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gachezem
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Default high speed flutter

why not just back off the throttle on the down line, I have the same plane, with no sign's of flutter, 20x10 bolly ST 4500 @ 8100 rpm.
Old 04-29-2003, 07:03 PM
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Default 80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

Aerobatic planes like caps, extras, edges, giles etc are made for aerobatics, not speed. Failing to throttle back on down lines with these types of planes is a sure way to eventually rip the wings off. Avoid powered dives, or any time where WOT and gravity are both pulling the nose of the plane in the same direction.
Old 04-29-2003, 08:53 PM
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Default 80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

ok thanks. i will keep the speed down, that was to scary. i think i got to used to fly fast planes. One more ques. would a long 45 deg. dive make the wings flutter too?
Old 04-29-2003, 09:40 PM
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Default 80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

You need to check that your wing tubes are tight before flying. Grab a wing tip and rock the plane. The plane should move as a single unit, with no slop. Now try the other one. The Lanier 232 ARF has a reputation for poor wing tube design from a number of angles. Just do a search on "Lanier AND 232" and you will find alot of info.

The one I bought -used - had an inch of play on one wing and about half an inch on the other. The internal braces for the wing sockets were loose and moving around inside the wing. I rebuilt both wing tubes in the wings. When I pulled the old ones out, they weren't phenolic, but CARDBOARD with a resin coating. The cardboard had stretched in diameter in addition to being loose within the wing. yuck.
Old 05-06-2003, 11:25 PM
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Default 80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

i am not sure about lanier, but if the wing flutters at the root of the wing and the bolts are tight. as long s the tubes did not show, what i would do it take them out, and replace them with something else. i don't know what size plane your's is, but all of my small ones (60 and below) have one piece wings, and those have great strength.
Old 05-07-2003, 12:13 AM
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Default Taking out wing tubes

Taking out wing tubes. I was going to do a little article on this, even took pictures. Don't have te pics with me though.

The wing tubes on the Lanier ARF are supposed to be thru the root rib and flush with the surface of the rib. That way there is a direct mechanical transfer of force from the root rib to the tube. I'm sure one contributing factor to the loosness of these ribs is the fact that they were pushed too far into the wing when glued in, then the gap was filled with epoxy. The tube itself did not touch the root rib.

However, now that the picture is painted for you - and you want to remove these tubes I might be able to tell you how. I did it because the tubes didn't fit the aluminum tube tightly at all, and they were'nt glued into the wing very well either.

You just take a dremel tool and grind away the extra epoxy at the root of the wing, which now is just keeping the tubes from falling out. What I'm saying is, the original glue job was so poor, the wing tubes were almost loose inside the wing. If the tubes were glued in solidly, I wouldn't have tried this.

Once the roots are freed up, I just took an old piece of dowel and smeared some epoxy on it and slid it into the wing tube. It should be a 3/4" dowel or so. I let it attach solidly to the tube overnight.
Then, on a padded workbench, I held the wing panel down and twisted the dowel to break the remaining glue free of the wing. I used a monkey wrench on one 'cause I couldn't get a good enough grip. It doesn't take that much force though.

After that, the tube just slid right out. Well, one of the tubes had a glue spur on it that ripped into the foam a little on the way out and took some twisting and swearing to get out.

I did get new tubes from Lanier - and they were proper phenolic tubes. I capped the ends well and installed them with Gorrilla glue, which foams up. Apparently other glues (polyurethane glues) also do this. I used quite a bit of glue to fill all the voids and wet down the wing tubes to be sure the glue would foam up well. Then I assembled the airplane and blocked up the wings so the tubes would be in the correct position when the glue cured.
When I got to the plane in the morning, I could grab a wing tip and wiggle it, and the plane moved as a unit.

There was some space left near the root rib that didn't get filled with glue, but with the tubes already located in place, it was simiple to fill the remaining space with thickened epoxy.

The wings were rock solid tight right up until the motor quit on takeoff and the plane pancaked in. Even so, the wings were still tight on the tube - although one wing snapped completely in half just outboard of where the wing tube ended.
Old 05-07-2003, 01:58 AM
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Default wing flutter

that sucks. it sounds like the quality of that kit was even lower than mine. on mine, the motor mount was drilled and tapped in the right spot, but crooked, so i couldn't fix it, the wheel pants were all bent and melted, and in some cases, transparent. i could have done a better job with my pocked lint. the cowel did not fit right, was lopsided, and the wrong color, (a little darker red) the colors did not match in some places, and the re-skinning kits did not quite match any of the colors on the plane, so patching looked "patchy". i guess the best way to check quality now is to ask somebody else at the field who had one. i do have to admit, they did a lousy job, and i am sorry you had such a hard time. the fact that your engine quit right at takeoff even makes it all worse, just knowing what happened to your repair.
Old 05-07-2003, 01:59 AM
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Default quality

in fact, if you look at my avatar closely, you can see the diference between the colors of the cowl and the fuselage
Old 05-07-2003, 04:20 PM
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Default 80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

Flutter....I had (err, my son) had to cut short two flights because the aileron pushrod came off! In both cases we didn't hear any flutter - he noticed the difference in 'feel' when trying to hoover!

Jerry
Old 05-07-2003, 11:21 PM
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Default 80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

that sucks too
Old 05-07-2003, 11:30 PM
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Default 80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

Good news....it landed both time w/o any problems! Love those Radio South Giant Scale 1/4 hinges!!!!!!!

Jerry
Old 05-07-2003, 11:35 PM
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Default Not sure if anyone else said this but....

Do you have your hinge gaps sealed? A piece of clear packing tape is all it takes. Or you can use some Ultracote cut into strips and iron it in. Although it costs more money initially, Metal gear servos are a must on any plane thats larger than 50"WS.
HTH
Old 05-08-2003, 02:22 PM
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Default push rod came off??

sound's like there is a problem with your linkage, do you not have a safety keeper on them, a metal clip, double nut or anti spreader??

You should have some one do a safety check on your plane before some one get's hurt.
Old 05-21-2003, 10:43 PM
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Default Lanier

I have buddy that had, key word being had, a Lanier Cap. went into flutter during level flight, shredded wings, plane total loss. Contacted Lanier and got the "Gee thats to bad". End of story

John
Old 05-21-2003, 11:32 PM
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Default 80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

ya. a friend of mine/instructor ripped the wings off his easy sport and lawn darted it accross the pits, and through our windbreaker trees. i think he had too big of an engine on it, but that wing jsut came right off. now he flys an aluminum stick with corrigated plastic wings and stabilizers. the cool thing is, except for the necessary components, if you crash and it breaks, you can go to home depot and be back in the air in an hour. no epoxy or anything
Old 07-14-2003, 10:31 PM
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Default 80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

My Lanier 80" Cap 232 crashed a couple of weeks ago. The throttle got stuck and got going to fast and the wings started to flutter bad and I couldn't regain control.
Old 07-15-2003, 04:53 AM
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Default 80" Lanier Cap 232 wing flutter.

pull up, and hold up. it will reduce the speed greatly, and hover it, being sure to way over control it, but overcompensate enough every time so you don't fall out. if you could have kept that up 'til you ran out of fuel, you would have had the chance to send it back to them along with a lump hammer and a trashbag.
Old 12-17-2003, 08:41 AM
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Default RE: 80" <span class=

I had no control of the plane what so ever. It was just shaking so bad. I am convinced that the wing tube is way to short for an 80" wing b'cuz my dad has the Lanier 30% Edge(90" ws) and the tube goes atleast half way into each wing, may b even more. I called Lanier and told them and they just said "sorry, cant help you"

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