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glow fuel

Old 06-27-2008, 11:03 PM
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poison
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Default glow fuel

How about glowfuel prices went to hobby store today to pick up a gallon and it was about five dolloras more, they told me it because of the olympic games in China and they had to shut down the factories intell they are over do to polution, has anyone herd this or any other reason for the price increase and how long is them olypic games going price of gas for your car goes up and now airplane fuel, food going up everthing is going up now days but are pay
Old 06-27-2008, 11:42 PM
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ernbar
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Default RE: glow fuel

Don't know about glow fuel, but I've heard that China is hoarding the gasoline and concrete, being responsible for driving up the price of both, which is affecting the price of other goods too.
Old 06-28-2008, 05:10 PM
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yojoelay
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Default RE: glow fuel

Most methanol is likely produced locally. If you have any sort of chemical industry near you someone is producing methanol; it is a basic input to many chemical processes. Have a look in the yellow pages for motor racing fuel suppliers or chemical suppliers.

Down here methanol is quite cheap but it depends on the quantity you purchase. Basically the suppliers segment the market - when you buy 200 liters (50 gallons?) the price is much lower than when you only buy 5 or 20 litres (1-4 gallons?).

I think the last time I looked at the local racing fuel supplier they wanted about $215 for a 200 litre drum and $40 to 50 for a 20 litre drum. They won't deliver 200 litre drums to a residential address because of safe storage rules - can you imagine what a 200 litre drum of methanol would do in a house fire? Buying it in 20 litre drums makes financial sense though and it's still a lot cheaper than buying at the LHS. My LHS wants $45 for 5 litres of mixed fuel.

Search out a motor racing fuel supplier - they'll have nitro and methanol. My LHS sells oil. Have a look around RCU for details on mixing your own fuel.

Hope this helps.

Joel
Old 06-28-2008, 08:23 PM
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carrellh
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Default RE: glow fuel

Methanol and nitromethane are made from petroleum. I don't know how it is in Arkansas but all petroleum products have gone up in Texas. I'm surprised that it has taken so long to see glow fuel prices go up.
Old 06-28-2008, 10:09 PM
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Default RE: glow fuel

Hobby People is having there 7 day sale plus there 4th of July sale?? 15% Power master is 15 magic beans, the 20/20 is 20 magic beans. They have A sale on every big weekend. I just save up all my magic and go there and stock up.
My local GOOD hobby shop has about the same prices as there sale prices all the time but not on Power Master so I do like to stock up!!
Old 06-29-2008, 04:47 PM
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Default RE: glow fuel

Word on the street is that the Nitromethane is the commodity that is in short supply. There are only a few plants around the world that make it, and one of them is in China. Whether it was shutdown for pollution prevention for the Olympic games or not, I'm not sure, but the price of Nitromethane has skyrocketed.

Brad
Old 06-29-2008, 05:02 PM
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Jetdesign
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Default RE: glow fuel

I heard what the last poster said, that there are only a handful of nitromethane manufacturers; and I did hear that one is in China, and that they are not producing due to air quality and the olympic games. Haven't seen the price increase yet though.
Old 06-29-2008, 06:18 PM
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rambler53
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Default RE: glow fuel

http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/.../fuelfact3.htm

What is made from again?
Old 06-29-2008, 08:33 PM
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Jetdesign
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Default RE: glow fuel

Thank goodness, I thought I was going crazy with everyone saying it comes from oil.

I also noticed a decrease in run time with an increase in nitro, and again they told me I was nuts.
Old 06-29-2008, 08:41 PM
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rambler53
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Default RE: glow fuel

Bottom line is everyone is in a panic, and rumors run rampant, and people are led to believe all kinds of things. I like the one where giving up a good truck to save fuel is cost effective. It's not. Simple math proves you go in the hole buying the so called fuel efficient car for at least 7 years. But that would be another thread.
Old 06-29-2008, 08:46 PM
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carlosponti
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Default RE: glow fuel


ORIGINAL: carrellh

Methanol and nitromethane are made from petroleum. I don't know how it is in Arkansas but all petroleum products have gone up in Texas. I'm surprised that it has taken so long to see glow fuel prices go up.
this statement is completely false. glow fuel components are methanol ALCOHOL and nitromethane. neither of which are made from petroleum. First component. In alcohol distillation there are two key alcohols that are produced. Methanol an Ethanol first being what is used in most glow fuels second is the alcohol component to drinking alcohol. Ethanol is also used in the gas market to supplant straight gasoline in 10 percent and 85 percent variations. Currently there are no 100% ethanol fuel variations at the pump because they have to make it unfit for human consumption as to not be subject to US liquor taxes among other reasons. nitro methane is a chemical process where Nitric Acid is heated to create 4 different chemicals nitromethane nitroethane 1-nitropropane and 2-nitropropane. in the NHRA they are having the same shortage. its already been stated that the shortage is due to nitromethane that is mostly produced in china. production in those plants has been shutdown to look clean for the olympics. In the US these chemicals used to be made on a greater scale but has been scaled back to a few exclusive markets and china has taken over to supply NHRA and hobbyists like ourselves. Last component in most fuels is Castor oil in varying percentages that comes from the caster bean same bean that can be used to make rycin poison. some fuels have replaced castor with synthetic lubricants.


so NO amount that goes into GLOW fuel is petroleum based. That is all for todays chemistry lesson.
Old 06-29-2008, 09:13 PM
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rambler53
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Default RE: glow fuel

The hobby and automotive sports, only use 10% if not less combined, out of the total domestic production of alcohol. I doubt we ever "scaled back", there just was never a high demand for the fuel, and there still isn't. China has not been a primary supplier of this product for the USA overall. Only one manufacturing plant exists domestically, easily meeting the demand to produce other things, besides glow fuel, so I've read.
Old 06-29-2008, 09:38 PM
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Bob Mitchell
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Default RE: glow fuel


ORIGINAL: carlosponti


ORIGINAL: carrellh

Methanol and nitromethane are made from petroleum. I don't know how it is in Arkansas but all petroleum products have gone up in Texas. I'm surprised that it has taken so long to see glow fuel prices go up.
this statement is completely false. glow fuel components are methanol ALCOHOL and nitromethane. neither of which are made from petroleum. First component. In alcohol distillation there are two key alcohols that are produced. Methanol an Ethanol first being what is used in most glow fuels second is the alcohol component to drinking alcohol. Ethanol is also used in the gas market to supplant straight gasoline in 10 percent and 85 percent variations. Currently there are no 100% ethanol fuel variations at the pump because they have to make it unfit for human consumption as to not be subject to US liquor taxes among other reasons. nitro methane is a chemical process where Nitric Acid is heated to create 4 different chemicals nitromethane nitroethane 1-nitropropane and 2-nitropropane. in the NHRA they are having the same shortage. its already been stated that the shortage is due to nitromethane that is mostly produced in china. production in those plants has been shutdown to look clean for the olympics. In the US these chemicals used to be made on a greater scale but has been scaled back to a few exclusive markets and china has taken over to supply NHRA and hobbyists like ourselves. Last component in most fuels is Castor oil in varying percentages that comes from the caster bean same bean that can be used to make rycin poison. some fuels have replaced castor with synthetic lubricants.


so NO amount that goes into GLOW fuel is petroleum based. That is all for todays chemistry lesson.
If you heat nitric acid, all you get is hot nitric acid. At some point it will boil, and then break down. Nitromethane is made from nitric acid and propane.
Old 06-30-2008, 05:47 AM
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Default RE: glow fuel

To be more specific, Nitro methane is produced by heating a mixture of propane and nitric acid. It is an exothermic reaction (meaning it produces heat) and results in a mixture of several different nitro organics which must then be separated by distillation. Propane, as we all know, is a petroleum product.

Most of the methanol used today is also produced from petroleum or coal, not by anaerobic fermentation.

Most of the oil in our glow fuels today is from synthetic oils which are made from non-petroleum feedstocks.

Brad
Old 06-30-2008, 08:39 AM
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rambler53
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Default RE: glow fuel


Yep, it's all found in this link that he read.
Old 06-30-2008, 12:23 PM
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Jetdesign
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Default RE: glow fuel

I wasn't thinking that propane comes from oil, but it can. If I would have remembered my chemistry I would have realized it: C3H8 is propane; it's a hydrocarbon! I imagine 'they' can obtain propane from nearly anything with an abundance of C's and H's, sobit also can come from other fossil fuels/natural gases. I think most of it comes from these sources, but apparently not all of it.
Old 06-30-2008, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: glow fuel

ORIGINAL: carlosponti

ORIGINAL: carrellh
Methanol and nitromethane are made from petroleum.
this statement is completely false. glow fuel components are methanol and nitromethane.

so NO amount that goes into GLOW fuel is petroleum based. That is all for todays chemistry lesson.

-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol
Methanol is often called wood alcohol because it was once produced chiefly as a byproduct of the destructive distillation of wood. It is now produced synthetically by a multi-step process: natural gas and steam are reformed in a furnace to produce hydrogen and carbon monoxide; then, hydrogen and carbon monoxide gases react under pressure in the presence of a catalyst.
-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitromethane
Nitromethane is produced industrially by treating propane with nitric acid at 350–450 °C.
-


I believe natural gas and propane are generally considered to be petroleum products. At the very least they are "fossil fuels" that come out of the ground, and prices on them have gone up.
Old 06-30-2008, 01:10 PM
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Default RE: glow fuel

Natural gas is a rather generic term. Most of it is methane (CH4), but other compounds are present. Besides being used for methanol production, it is the primary ingredient used in the production of the agriculture fertilizer known as anhydrous ammonia (NH3).
Old 07-06-2008, 07:56 PM
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Default RE: glow fuel

carrellh i think i was trying more to point out the posts already in the engine forum and everywhere else. including nhra forums. the suppliers in the US dont supply to the hobbyists and nhra both of which get theirs primarily from china now which has shut down production. i dont know the particulars however as far as everything I have ready this isnt a product of oil prices but a flow problem from china which has deeply effected the nhra. at the end of summer its expected to resume. reguardless of how wrong i misread the nitro production in wiki :P
Old 07-09-2008, 08:58 PM
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Default RE: glow fuel

I rrrrrrrrad he information and has fin bu h las gallon of fuel sold a helocal hobby shop fo 28.00..and I wa told ha whn he nex shipmn arives h price fo gallon(no a case) will be in neighborhood of forty five dollar..all I can say i I am glad I am into electrics.
Old 07-10-2008, 02:04 PM
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Default RE: glow fuel

well I spoke with a large hobby retailer and whatever is the reason glow fuel is going up expoentially and in some cases its not in stock and no new shipments are anticipated until later this year.so in some instances it looks like planes will be grounded.there are few nitro plants anywhere.we had one in the us years back and when it burned down the price of model fuel jumped 5 bucks .so with china as the primary source for now the tap has been turned off and it simply wont be around. glad I have my 3Dhobby planes..
Old 07-11-2008, 02:55 AM
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Default RE: glow fuel

Actually there is one producer of Nitro left in the United States, it is ANGUS, which is a subsidiary of DOW. Currently they do not sell their product to the NHRA due to lack of compliance with Nitro handling standards. However, they will sell to anyone that passes a Nitro Certification test. Right now, the only fuel manufacturer that uses exclusively ANGUS Nitro is Magnum fuels, who still sells their fuel relatively cheap (30% Heli blend for $22 a gallon) They are a US company, and Buzz the owner is a super nice guy. Some members of my club got together, and I put in one order for us, which ended up being 15 cases. 8 Gallons of 30%. . . $176. . . sign me up. American made components, mixed by americans, sounds good. For reasons I won't get into here (do all the research and think of implications why and long term effect) I won't be supporting any fuel manufacturer that uses Chinese Nitro, even when it does come available. Besides less obvious reasons, if they will just shut things down as they please to leave their customers stuck. . . then charge at the wazoo. . . that's not a company that has my best interests at heart, and doesn't deserve my hard earned $$$
Old 07-13-2008, 09:54 PM
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Default RE: glow fuel

well I my self just paid about $35.00 for a gallon of omega pro 20% here in Nova Scotia canada and my local hobby shop owner has said that 15% and above will not be available for a while rite now he is out of 15% and can not get any more for a while and thats coming from morgan fuels in the USA.
Old 07-13-2008, 11:49 PM
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Default RE: glow fuel

Hey Mr502go thanks for the info about Magnum fuel, I'am with you I would rather buy fuel from united states as well, and ya know shutting down a factory and chargeing more for a procduct is not right anyway.
Old 07-14-2008, 07:21 AM
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Default RE: glow fuel

Hmm... maybe it's time for me to switch to electric, like I've been thinking about for a while anyways.

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