loser

My Feedback: (37)

I wasn't sure where to put this question but its one that has been festering in me for quite some time. The two clubs of which I am a member do not really have and/or enforce flight pattern control when more than one plane is in the air. I am just curious what other clubs do regarding this. I am not looking for any "hard-core" structure that must be followed but just no bi-directional fast passes over the runway when more than one plane is in the air. Fly any manuevers you want, hovering, etc, but when flying out off them I think there should be a "basic flight pattern" followed dictated by wind direction. It just seems like common sense...???

I go to several events at other clubs every year and see some that do a great job of "handling/controlling this" while others are very "casual" about it. Call me paranoid but when I'm flying either an expensive plane or one that I have a lot of build time into....I'd rather suffer a loss due to my "dumb thumbs" than getting "blindsided" by a down-wind pass over the runway. I had two "near-misses" this summer from this exact scenario....

Just wondering what your clubs do regarding this.....

Steve

carrellh

We do not have rules about the flight pattern.

We have wind from the South more often than from the North, and our runway runs North/South. Since we face East while flying we nearly always fly a left hand pattern. Even when the wind is from the North, everyone tends to revert to the left hand pattern except for takeoff and landing. We have a limit of 4 planes in the air at once, and "recommend" having a spotter any time more than 2 are in the air.

The two midair collisions I have seen were not caused by someone flying an opposite pattern. Both were cases of a really big plane vs a small one and the pilots misjudged how far apart they were and one turned into the other.

bolar

My Feedback: (5)

Our runway (grass) is north-south and we face the east. This is straight from our field rules.


2. Flying Pattern:
After take off, all turns are to be to the east.
•North take-off, right hand turns.
•South take-off, left hand turns.
Fly-bys will be down the center of the runway, away from the pits.

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

Flight pattern is something I work out with the pilots before/during each and every flight. Rules on how one must fly, in general, are lame because they are not feasible to enforce and are often designed to restrict a plane type or flying style the rule maker doesn't like. I understand you are not asking about a "hard-core" rule, but they can easily end up that way once you start down that road. That said, our club's field technically has a flight pattern rule, and a no flying over the runway rule unless takingoff/landing, but neither is enforced during non-event open flying. At events, depending upon the event and at the discretion of the CD, these rules may be explained during registration and enforced.

BillyGoat

Ditto Carrell, right down to the mid airs that I've witnessed being casued by other cirumstances than planes flying against the pattern.

loser

My Feedback: (37)

SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT.......If you guys are flying a 3,4 or 5 k$ plane or one that you have spent a year or so of building on and are flying into the wind over the runway (normal wind directed pattern) and another plane comes blazing past you in the opposite direction and almost hits your plane.....you DONT have a problem with that?????? I dont care a great deal about what goes on out past the runway but C'mon.... zig-zag passes right over the runway when several planes are in the air????

Steve

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

I have actually never seen someone make a zig-zag pass over the runway, anywhere. If I did, I'd probably stay out of his way.

You probably should fly out beyond the runway anyway, unless no one's in the air. The runway is for landing and taking off.

And, if you actually do have someone at your field that's flying erratically, you probably should visit with them, or arrange to fly when they're not in the air, or get on the Safety committee and take action.

Just my 2¢ worth,
Dave Olson

dignlivn

Our club pattern is determined by the wind direction.
I've noticed though most members are stuck in a Right
hand pattern(Left turns). Probably because of having to make a short
turn to final, if coming in the other way. However they most always take off using
a Left hand pattern. I know I need to practice landing
coming in from the right myself, but there usally flying
the other pattern reguardless of the wind direction.

Then there are ep flyers that take off across the runway,
that bugs me but i'm a newer member to the club.

JMO & 2 cents

Bob

loser

My Feedback: (37)

I have expressed my concern regarding this several times over the years but was never taken seriously. I was never in this clubs "clique" and was one of the few guys in that club who flew more expensive and "built models" so I guess to the other guys it isn't that big of a deal. BUT....a newer member recently had a midair over the runway from just what I am describing and brought it up at the club meeting a few days ago.....Yeah....I am finally not the only "paranoid whiner"...lol.

bassman

Our rule is very simple. The near leg of the pattren is in the direction of take off. If we are taking off left to right because of wind conditions then the near leg of the pattern is left to right. If the wind conditions focre a right to left take off then the near leg of the pattren is that way. First truns are always away from the flight line.

Bassman

eagledancer

where i have been flying has been quite relaxed but we always shout out our intentions, "flyby" "landing" "deadstick" ect. that way everyone that has a plane in the air is informed as to what is going on. we have had 6-8 planes in the air at a time and no problems when we let each other know what is going on, and yes i know what you mean i also have some very expensive aircraft. i dont fly arfs
todd

BillyGoat

Yes I would have a problem with that, but that is not a problem at our field. Eventhough we have never set a "pattern" and it does look as though everyone is going where ever, there is an established etiquette and what you described violates that. So it sounds like you have an issue with an idiot member that lacks common sense, instead of lack of established rules by your club(s).

carrellh

BillyGoat,
I agree. Our flight pattern rules are very informal and it works well for us. We do have a limit of 4 planes in the air at the same time. I have no idea if it is an actual 'rule' but everyone who plans to fly directly over the runway always says something before doing it. We call out taking off, landing, and deadstick. Piority of these is deadstick, then landing, then taking off.

We have one person who always did all of his aerobatics directly over the runway, even when others were flying. It was distracting and sometimes dangerous. One of our founding members talked to him privately and he didn't realize he was doing this. He switched from 40/60 size planes to 15/20 size and that sort of 'pulled' everything in. All it took was a calm discussion with someone who didn't try to order him around. He still flies his aerobatics, but now they are beyond the runway.

Steve,
I think you, or someone, should talk privately with the pilot who is creating the dangerous situation. Don't go into the conversation as someone giving orders. Most of us are middle aged men who like to relax by flying our toys. We have bosses (and some have wives) who tell us what to do on a daily basis. The last thing we want at the flying field is someone telling us what to do. Discuss what is dangerous and why it is dangerous.

jetmech05

Like you said in your post...wind direction dictates the pattern....
If your flying alone do what you want..where you want..as soon as you hear coming out get in the pattern...do your aerobatics on the downwind side or in the middle of the pattern...
3D hovers in the middle of the field keeping both the downwind side and runway clear.....
As far as I am concerned if your flying against the pattern and you cause a midair you just bought the other guy a plane.....
the other thing to remember is keep the other pilots informed of your intentions...ie touch and go, loop, fullstop whatever you're doing that could interfer with another pilot....courtsey and consideration will go along way

barnstormer2

My Feedback: (2)

Our fields so small, we have to fly over the runway. We try to fly at different altitudes for the scale planes and try to stay out of the way of the 3d guys, but we always voice our intentions to each other weather its a landing or deadstick etc. If you ask me, it seems to come down to respecting other peoples airspace and that your problem is more with the individual than the clubs rules.

ceecrb1

This is also a lot alike my club... we have a very small patch of land, which is exactly the lengthe of the runway +10mtrs either side.
After the carpark takes up its space... we have an L shaped flying area.. where the runway is on the long end and the heli pad on the short leg of the L.
we have 2mtr tall orrange trees on all sides, right up to the fence.
Now, to the pilots back are challets, where we cannot fly, for safety.

This means a few things happen.

1 we are FORCED to fly only infront of us.. realistically over the runway, or the plane is far away as a spot.
2. due to theplacing of the heli guys.. they must cross our runway every flight..
3. Pilots are forced to fly from the pits.. as take a few steps forward and your on the runway...or its "danger zone" from a bad landing.

Aside we generally have a (translated) "deadstick" and "runway" call out which can mean landing or taking off.... otherwise its basic communication.

How is it that there are never arguments!?

Basically there is normally no more than 2 or 3 planes in the air at once.

we tend to "fly as groups/classes" as in if acros are up.. more will follow.. if speed freaks are up.. they will all be up etc..

we also tend to fly as a group depending on the planes up.
EG. IE scale / beginers will find an altitude and stick to it as generally.. its more "horizonal" flying on top of eachother like cakes.
& Acro guys are more likely to find a corner to one side and use the space vertically. if flying beside each other in columns.

First with the engine started and running well is first in que for runway.. you can only start engines when landed plane reaches pits and has stopped.
if a biggie is up.. generally they have the sky to themselves but are asked to respect that others may want to fly.. especially if using the marked angles on the ground for pattern...
(eg the guy practicing for a comp who prettymuch ocupied the sky an entire day while we were left waiting.)

MOST importantly: we do lots more complaining on the ground than flying!

There is also a very large contingent of retired aged pilots.. who as a group own the field.
This means they are generaly there 6-7 days a WEEK over the summer (we have a very good clubhouse with BBQ and beer on tap!!), so by the time the workers arrive at weekends, they generally are there, but fly little as they know, come monday they have the entire field to themselves.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

The events I have gone to and the clubs I have belonged to or flown from have always kept it simple and dictated by the wind direction. If you take off from left to right then that is the pattern direction, if you take off from right to left then that is the pattern direction. Nothing hard or deep about that.
Problem: one club I had belonged to the wind direction was almost always from the same direction until fall. It surprised me to see so many pilots that could only fly in one direction.

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

We fly an oval pattern, either clockwise or counterclockwise, depending on which way the wind is blowing over the runway. We call takeoffs and landings so the guys in the air know to keep a high altitude when they come around over the runway. Sometimes the wind changes directions, or some guy is just used to flying one direction. If that's the case, then we call the takeoff and landing direction (always into the wind) and then fall into the pattern that the guys in the air are currently flying.