How do most of you shape a leading edge?
02-07-2010, 10:27 AM
#1
How do most of you shape a leading edge?
I've build several models, and the one aspect of building the wing I still find difficult is shaping the leading edge. A constant chord is easier and I use a great planes contour sander profile for that, but what about different root and tip airfoils? Is it basically try to use a front profile shape, sand and eye ball it.
Jim
Jim
02-07-2010, 11:19 AM
#3
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
Thanks Mike,
Question, have you and your friends thought of driving up to the Gimli Model Fest in Manitoba in Augustat all, eh? http://www.gimlimodelfest.com/2009/index.htm
Jim
Question, have you and your friends thought of driving up to the Gimli Model Fest in Manitoba in Augustat all, eh? http://www.gimlimodelfest.com/2009/index.htm
Jim
02-07-2010, 11:23 AM
#4
My Feedback: (3)
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
There's a much easier way to shape a leading edge than sanding. Carve it to shape with a razor plane. It's much faster and more accurate. Plus it's just lots more fun. The one thing to be careful of is that it's easy to go too far, so watch what you're doing and protect your work. Use the plane to get it close to shape, then sand.
I use the Master Airscrew Razor Plane ($7) but any one will do.
Protect the sheeting next to the LE with blue painters tape. Now you can carve away without damaging the sheeting. Carve flush with the sheeting first, don’t try to round it right away. Use long strokes, each the full length of the leading edge. Lay the plane on the taped sheeting and that will set the angle to take you down to flush. When you start tearing the tape you’re getting close, treat that area with caution, you don't want to cut too deep. Work the rest of the edge down to the same depth.
Once you’re just about flush with the entire surface mark a center line on the LE. Then you can start rounding. But go slowly, it’s easy to get too aggressive and leave a flat spot. Only use the razor plane to get close. Then switch to a sanding block to even things up and finish shaping. Leave the tape on even for the early sanding. Finally remove the tape and finish sand to bring everything flush and to final shape. If you’re really tearing the tape up, it’s doing it’s job and you’ve saved your sheeting. Remove the tape and apply a new piece.
When you’re carving something long like a leading edge or an aileron bevel, use long strokes, each one the full length of the part. This will help keep the shape constant.
Dave
I use the Master Airscrew Razor Plane ($7) but any one will do.
Protect the sheeting next to the LE with blue painters tape. Now you can carve away without damaging the sheeting. Carve flush with the sheeting first, don’t try to round it right away. Use long strokes, each the full length of the leading edge. Lay the plane on the taped sheeting and that will set the angle to take you down to flush. When you start tearing the tape you’re getting close, treat that area with caution, you don't want to cut too deep. Work the rest of the edge down to the same depth.
Once you’re just about flush with the entire surface mark a center line on the LE. Then you can start rounding. But go slowly, it’s easy to get too aggressive and leave a flat spot. Only use the razor plane to get close. Then switch to a sanding block to even things up and finish shaping. Leave the tape on even for the early sanding. Finally remove the tape and finish sand to bring everything flush and to final shape. If you’re really tearing the tape up, it’s doing it’s job and you’ve saved your sheeting. Remove the tape and apply a new piece.
When you’re carving something long like a leading edge or an aileron bevel, use long strokes, each one the full length of the part. This will help keep the shape constant.
Dave
02-07-2010, 11:50 AM
#5
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
I find the best way for me is to use a beveling technique. I mark the primary bevels, at the 45 degree points top and bottom and cut them in with a razorplane and a sanding block. Next I make secondary bevels (4). The third (tertiary?) bevels are next and the section is ready for final sanding.
Doing the bevels on both wings at the same time insures symmetricality and consistancy. It really works well with a strong point source light, like the sun or a single light bulb - so you can clearly see what you are doing at each stage.
I even had an article in RCM on this technique a few years back.
Doing the bevels on both wings at the same time insures symmetricality and consistancy. It really works well with a strong point source light, like the sun or a single light bulb - so you can clearly see what you are doing at each stage.
I even had an article in RCM on this technique a few years back.
02-07-2010, 12:09 PM
#7
Senior Member
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
I use a long sanding block, with a belt for a 2-1/2" belt sander cut and glued to the block once the basic contour of the leading edge is established, typically with a razor plane.
02-10-2010, 09:29 PM
#9
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RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
LE profiles MATTER. Key to getting it right is to scribe a line that is the turning point of the LE from root to tip. Then with a razor plane and a profile template get it close and finish off with a long sanding block.
if you make the LE to0 sharp interesting things happen.
if you make the LE to0 sharp interesting things happen.
02-10-2010, 10:05 PM
#10
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RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
ORIGINAL: dbacque
There's a much easier way to shape a leading edge than sanding. Carve it to shape with a razor plane. It's much faster and more accurate. Plus it's just lots more fun. The one thing to be careful of is that it's easy to go too far, so watch what you're doing and protect your work. Use the plane to get it close to shape, then sand.
I use the Master Airscrew Razor Plane ($7) but any one will do.
Protect the sheeting next to the LE with blue painters tape. Now you can carve away without damaging the sheeting. Carve flush with the sheeting first, don’t try to round it right away. Use long strokes, each the full length of the leading edge. Lay the plane on the taped sheeting and that will set the angle to take you down to flush. When you start tearing the tape you’re getting close, treat that area with caution, you don't want to cut too deep. Work the rest of the edge down to the same depth.
Once you’re just about flush with the entire surface mark a center line on the LE. Then you can start rounding. But go slowly, it’s easy to get too aggressive and leave a flat spot. Only use the razor plane to get close. Then switch to a sanding block to even things up and finish shaping. Leave the tape on even for the early sanding. Finally remove the tape and finish sand to bring everything flush and to final shape. If you’re really tearing the tape up, it’s doing it’s job and you’ve saved your sheeting. Remove the tape and apply a new piece.
When you’re carving something long like a leading edge or an aileron bevel, use long strokes, each one the full length of the part. This will help keep the shape constant.
Dave
There's a much easier way to shape a leading edge than sanding. Carve it to shape with a razor plane. It's much faster and more accurate. Plus it's just lots more fun. The one thing to be careful of is that it's easy to go too far, so watch what you're doing and protect your work. Use the plane to get it close to shape, then sand.
I use the Master Airscrew Razor Plane ($7) but any one will do.
Protect the sheeting next to the LE with blue painters tape. Now you can carve away without damaging the sheeting. Carve flush with the sheeting first, don’t try to round it right away. Use long strokes, each the full length of the leading edge. Lay the plane on the taped sheeting and that will set the angle to take you down to flush. When you start tearing the tape you’re getting close, treat that area with caution, you don't want to cut too deep. Work the rest of the edge down to the same depth.
Once you’re just about flush with the entire surface mark a center line on the LE. Then you can start rounding. But go slowly, it’s easy to get too aggressive and leave a flat spot. Only use the razor plane to get close. Then switch to a sanding block to even things up and finish shaping. Leave the tape on even for the early sanding. Finally remove the tape and finish sand to bring everything flush and to final shape. If you’re really tearing the tape up, it’s doing it’s job and you’ve saved your sheeting. Remove the tape and apply a new piece.
When you’re carving something long like a leading edge or an aileron bevel, use long strokes, each one the full length of the part. This will help keep the shape constant.
Dave
Dave said it much better and more clearly than I could. The only thing Iwould add is that I use a loooong sanding bar and finish with fine grade paper cut to about a 4" wide strip held in each hand and work it across and along the LE just like you would spit polish a boot's toe cap. Using light pressure, a mark one eye ball and the reference line you can achieve uniform LE. Ditto on the warning about a too sharp leading edge. You will only ever make this mistake once[:@].
Cheers,
Colin
02-10-2010, 10:29 PM
#11
Senior Member
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
Hi- here is how I rough cut a double taper leading edge to fit a wing panel whose ribs' nose profile thins toward the tip. I made first cut of LE with a Microlux table saw set at desired angle. This stock was pinned onto a 'carrier' sheet offset to proper taper and the blade angle was changed to closely match the rib nose profile for this 2nd angled cut. The first pic shows end result. I absolutely love this table saw! Only after sheeting glued in place will I 'round over' the LE. I use Duco cement or Elmer's type wood glue for this since it sands easily. Good luck. Tailwinds, ARUP
02-11-2010, 01:03 AM
#12
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
Sorry, but having owned several of the "hobby" razer planes, they all belong in one place, the trash can. Being a professional woodworker, do yourself a favor and buy a real Stanley "low angle" block plane. They have very fine, accurate adjustments to depth of cut and are truly sharp. This is the best way to "rough out" the shape of the L.E. . I think you will be surprised how clean and precise a job this tool will do. You just have to finish up with the sandpaper. It is very important to retain a nice round L.E. Otherwise you can give yourself a nasty stall characteristic. a center line drawn down the front of the L.E. stock for reference is a good idea as well, to maintain straightness. Good luck
02-11-2010, 04:18 PM
#13
My Feedback: (3)
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
I'm sure your Stanley works for you but a well adjusted Master Airscrew Razor Plane with a fresh blade is a very fine tool for balsa work. It has the additional pluses of being light, an easy size to handle for the task at hand and it's just dirt cheap. $7 for a tool that does the job well and is easy to handle versus $40 for one that is heavier, bulkier and if you drop it you will dent your wing.
I have had razor planes that were trash. Especially the ones that used true razor blades. The Master Airscrew uses a special blade made just for this tool that is replaceable and works very well.
I have Stanley planes but for me they stay in the wood shop.
Dave
I have had razor planes that were trash. Especially the ones that used true razor blades. The Master Airscrew uses a special blade made just for this tool that is replaceable and works very well.
I have Stanley planes but for me they stay in the wood shop.
Dave
02-11-2010, 04:46 PM
#14
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
ORIGINAL: dbacque
I'm sure your Stanley works for you but a well adjusted Master Airscrew Razor Plane with a fresh blade is a very fine tool for balsa work. It has the additional pluses of being light, an easy size to handle for the task at hand and it's just dirt cheap. $7 for a tool that does the job well and is easy to handle versus $40 for one that is heavier, bulkier and if you drop it you will dent your wing.
I have had razor planes that were trash. Especially the ones that used true razor blades. The Master Airscrew uses a special blade made just for this tool that is replaceable and works very well.
I have Stanley planes but for me they stay in the wood shop.
Dave
I'm sure your Stanley works for you but a well adjusted Master Airscrew Razor Plane with a fresh blade is a very fine tool for balsa work. It has the additional pluses of being light, an easy size to handle for the task at hand and it's just dirt cheap. $7 for a tool that does the job well and is easy to handle versus $40 for one that is heavier, bulkier and if you drop it you will dent your wing.
I have had razor planes that were trash. Especially the ones that used true razor blades. The Master Airscrew uses a special blade made just for this tool that is replaceable and works very well.
I have Stanley planes but for me they stay in the wood shop.
Dave
Couldn't agree with you more!!!The Master Airscrew Razor Plane is one of my favorites in the toolbox. Ilove working with it. I've tried using others as well as the GPPower Plane, but I like the Master Airscrew the best. It fits right into the palm of my hand so I can get a real good "feel" for what it's doing. I can usually shape things like the leading edge or other parts fairly quickly with this, and then some quick work with sandpaper to finish it off.
Ken
02-11-2010, 05:57 PM
#15
Senior Member
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
I'm still on the same razor in my Master razor plane - and it's almost 20 years old. If it's adjusted right and you follow the grain there isn't any problem. I certainly can appreciate the better quality products available but it's balsa - not cherry - we are planing here.
Dan
Dan
02-12-2010, 01:07 AM
#16
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
One of the major problems with those hobby planes is they are too short. The weight is a benefit from a kinetic energy standpoint. The plane I am speaking of is a one handed tool, not the large 2 handed variety. Obviously we are not going to change each others minds here, but this has been my experience along with many others I have spoken with about planes. Just giving the original poster options, what these threads are all about. If your budget will allow, do yourself a favor and get a good low angle plane. Good for much more than model construction.
02-12-2010, 07:22 AM
#17
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
I almost got that I do use a couple of rasor planes. I have a stanley, an older razor plane (similar) and a mini block plane from lee valley tools.
Jim
Jim
02-12-2010, 07:54 AM
#18
Senior Member
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
I'll have to agree with vertical grimmace, a good small block plane beats any of those razor planes by a mile. You do have to know how to sharpen the blades though, not a difficult task. You can get good block planes just as small as the razor planes but I prefer the ones that are about 5 inches long. Not only will they handle balsa well but also the hard woods such as Spruce or Pine etc.
02-12-2010, 02:28 PM
#19
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
ORIGINAL: Rodney
I'll have to agree with vertical grimmace, a good small block plane beats any of those razor planes by a mile. You do have to know how to sharpen the blades though, not a difficult task. You can get good block planes just as small as the razor planes but I prefer the ones that are about 5 inches long. Not only will they handle balsa well but also the hard woods such as Spruce or Pine etc.
I'll have to agree with vertical grimmace, a good small block plane beats any of those razor planes by a mile. You do have to know how to sharpen the blades though, not a difficult task. You can get good block planes just as small as the razor planes but I prefer the ones that are about 5 inches long. Not only will they handle balsa well but also the hard woods such as Spruce or Pine etc.
02-13-2010, 09:57 AM
#20
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RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
ORIGINAL: dbacque
Carve it to shape with a razor plane............... Plus it's just lots more fun.
Carve it to shape with a razor plane............... Plus it's just lots more fun.
02-13-2010, 11:46 AM
#21
My Feedback: (3)
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
Obviously we are not going to change each others minds here, but this has been my experience along with many others I have spoken with about planes. Just giving the original poster options, what these threads are all about.
Obviously we are not going to change each others minds here, but this has been my experience along with many others I have spoken with about planes. Just giving the original poster options, what these threads are all about.
The Master Airscrew Razor Plane is a fantastic tool at a great price. Just because it's inexpensive doesn't mean it's trash. It does have to be adjusted but once the cut depth is set correctly it does the job it's designed for very well. Plus you don't need the experience and equipment required for sharpening a block plane when it dulls or gets nicked. Toss the blade and put another in for under $1.
I agree that a good sharp, well adjusted block plane is a great tool, I have several in my woodshop. But for someone just trying to shape a couple of pieces of balsa there is a much cheaper alternative that provides excellent results.
Dave
02-14-2010, 04:19 AM
#22
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
ORIGINAL: dbacque
I wasn't trying to change your mind. If you have a method that works for you, that's great. And sharing it is great too. But you said that all razor planes belong in the trash can and that doesn't sound like just giving options. It sounds like very bad advice.
The Master Airscrew Razor Plane is a fantastic tool at a great price. Just because it's inexpensive doesn't mean it's trash. It does have to be adjusted but once the cut depth is set correctly it does the job it's designed for very well. Plus you don't need the experience and equipment required for sharpening a block plane when it dulls or gets nicked. Toss the blade and put another in for under $1.
I agree that a good sharp, well adjusted block plane is a great tool, I have several in my woodshop. But for someone just trying to shape a couple of pieces of balsa there is a much cheaper alternative that provides excellent results.
Dave
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
Obviously we are not going to change each others minds here, but this has been my experience along with many others I have spoken with about planes. Just giving the original poster options, what these threads are all about.
Obviously we are not going to change each others minds here, but this has been my experience along with many others I have spoken with about planes. Just giving the original poster options, what these threads are all about.
The Master Airscrew Razor Plane is a fantastic tool at a great price. Just because it's inexpensive doesn't mean it's trash. It does have to be adjusted but once the cut depth is set correctly it does the job it's designed for very well. Plus you don't need the experience and equipment required for sharpening a block plane when it dulls or gets nicked. Toss the blade and put another in for under $1.
I agree that a good sharp, well adjusted block plane is a great tool, I have several in my woodshop. But for someone just trying to shape a couple of pieces of balsa there is a much cheaper alternative that provides excellent results.
Dave
02-14-2010, 01:25 PM
#23
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RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
Just a two cents worth. I have found the $7 razor plane to work in many locations that the larger / heavier planes just won't. Sometimes the size or nature of the area being created just requires a smaller lighter tool. On the other hand the larger heavier planes do have their place when it comes to harder woods or even some of the tougher grained balsa. The mass simply makes the carry through on the stroke smoother and cleaner in my opinion. I, for one, use both in their time and place and believe that both are a good addition to the model workshop. Just make sure to keep them sharp for the balsa work. Sometimes you just dont realize that the trouble you are having is because of a dull edge until its sharpened.
02-14-2010, 02:10 PM
#24
RE: How do most of you shape a leading edge?
Leading edge work borders on being more of an art form than most of what we do when building.
There is no doubt you really need to look at your work as you go. I usually start with the razor plane and do some beveling as mentioned above.
I have also made some sanding bars by cutting open pvc tubing and gluing sandpaper on the inside radius/surface . It seems a little strange using it at first, but it adds another useful tool to the quiver
There is no doubt you really need to look at your work as you go. I usually start with the razor plane and do some beveling as mentioned above.
I have also made some sanding bars by cutting open pvc tubing and gluing sandpaper on the inside radius/surface . It seems a little strange using it at first, but it adds another useful tool to the quiver