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searching for info on Airspace

Old 03-23-2010, 09:31 AM
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Vettster
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Default searching for info on Airspace

Hi Guys! I think it was about 6 months ago when an retarded RC Pilot flew his plane almost directly into the flight path of a large commercial jet, just so he could video tape it with his on board camera.

What is the rule as to the distance that must be maintained from a commercial airport.
Does anyone have a link to the video of this.

Thanks very much

Old 03-23-2010, 09:46 AM
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airbusdrvr
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

I'm sure that whatever rule you find will include "so as not to present a hazard" statement.
Old 03-23-2010, 11:02 AM
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dignlivn
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace






I think it says something along the line of,

400 ft Altitude with in a 5 mile radius of an
Airport.


Bob
Old 03-23-2010, 11:34 AM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

ORIGINAL: dignlivn






I think it says something along the line of,

400 ft Altitude with in a 5 mile radius of an
Airport.


Bob
5 miles!! Holy smoke! Theres a guy at our club that flys his plane 1/2 a mile away from Canadas 2nd bussiest airport. He says its ok though..cause at the time he took the video, he was president of our club and CFI(nov 11th 2009) and is still currently the CFI, Secratary,Webmaster. Its ok becouse we have only 150 members, so what bad impression could he posibley be giving the others[]

Im trying like heck to get this guy nocked down a few notchs. He should be removed from the board at least! This is why I need that video of the other nutbar that nearly hit the commercial plane. I think it was only weeks after that when our nutbar went and did the exact same thing.
Old 03-23-2010, 11:44 AM
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carrellh
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

In Canada, the MAAC http://www.maac.ca/home.php?pflg=e safety code says
-
Regulatory rule 4.2
R/C Pilot's (shall) yield "right of way" of their model aircraft to man carrying piloted aircraft with no exceptions. (When man-carrying piloted aircraft are in the proximity of model flying operations, launching of models shall cease immediately, and in - flight models shall be landed if feasible or steered well away from the flight path of the full sized aircraft).
-
I did not read the full document so I do not know if there are more specific rules.




In the US, the AMA safety code http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf says
General guideline 2.
I will yield the right-of-way to man-carrying aircraft and will see and avoid all aircraft, utilizing a spotter when appropriate. (See AMA Document #540-D on See and Avoid Guidance.)

General guideline 3.
I will not fly my model aircraft higher than approximately 400 feet above ground level, when within three (3) miles of an airport without notifying the airport operator.

Document 540-D http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/540-D.pdf does not list specific altitudes or distances when manned aircraft are in the area. It tries to assume a certain level of common sense exists. Unfortunately, people prove over and over that it does not.
Old 03-23-2010, 11:49 AM
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ARUP
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

VERY irresponsible! Folks like that ruin it for everyone else, including the flight crew and passengers in the fullscale craft!
Old 03-23-2010, 11:53 AM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

Thank you Carrellh Thouse are the rules given by the model aircraft organizations. I feel that the FAA or the Canadian version of that wich regulates the FULL size aircraft would have somthing entirely diffrent to say about this person flying so close to their airfeild Without their permission. This guy just takes his 6' wingspan powered glider out at lunch time and doesnt think anything about it.
Old 03-23-2010, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

Usually the AMA documents are designed to be sure we comply with FAA regulations.

I'm guessing this guy is flying in the parking lot at work, and not at your club field?

If you think he is possibly creating a hazard for the people in the full size aircraft, you should call the authorities and report him. A headline like "100 killed in plane crash caused by 'toy' airplane" is not something any of us would want to see.
Old 03-23-2010, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

I have every intention of reporting him. Want to make sure I have all the info first. Would you like to watch his video?
http://www.youtube.com/user/odam2k#p/u/12/xrip4qzTmdc

In it you will see a large Black building, the airport is directly behind that. The larger man next to him is just a spectator.

Yes this is somthing he does on his lunch brake at work and has nothing to do with our club other than the impression it leaves on the others that the President/CFI can do this. He even posted it on our club site, but I think he has removed it.
Old 03-23-2010, 05:01 PM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

Down here it is 7 miles from an airport and 500ft max height, some idiot flue one in the flight path of a aircraft and got himself 10 years at the big house.

Cheers
Old 03-23-2010, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace


ORIGINAL: vettster

ORIGINAL: dignlivn






I think it says something along the line of,

400 ft Altitude with in a 5 mile radius of an
Airport.


Bob
5 miles!! Holy smoke! Theres a guy at our club that flys his plane 1/2 a mile away from Canadas 2nd bussiest airport. He says its ok though..cause at the time he took the video, he was president of our club and CFI(nov 11th 2009) and is still currently the CFI, Secratary,Webmaster. Its ok becouse we have only 150 members, so what bad impression could he posibley be giving the others[]

Im trying like heck to get this guy nocked down a few notchs. He should be removed from the board at least! This is why I need that video of the other nutbar that nearly hit the commercial plane. I think it was only weeks after that when our nutbar went and did the exact same thing.
He is OK as long as he stays BELOW the designated altitude.

I used to fly at two clubs close to Luton Airport and both had height restrictions.

A useful tip is to take a sheet of plywood jigsaw out the outline of a trainer and paint it in trainer colours then mount it at the same distance from the flightline as the max allowable altitude. A quick comparison tells you if you are above below or near the max altitude.

Airspace maps are free online too.
Old 03-23-2010, 07:48 PM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

*
Old 03-24-2010, 02:43 AM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

First entry from the Canadian aviation regulations

Model Aircraft, Kites and Model Rockets

602.45 No person shall fly a model aircraft or a kite or launch a model rocket or a rocket of a type used in a fireworks display into cloud or in a manner that is or is likely to be hazardous to aviation safety.

there is a bunch more....but I will PM you to see how you wish to pursue this situation. Please be aware that there are plenty of rules that all MAAC clubs and members must abide by and obviously the rules are being broken. I hope you will approach the individual and make them aware of how serious this is.
Old 03-24-2010, 11:43 AM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

ORIGINAL: vettster

I have every intention of reporting him. Want to make sure I have all the info first. Would you like to watch his video?
http://www.youtube.com/user/odam2k#p/u/12/xrip4qzTmdc

In it you will see a large Black building, the airport is directly behind that. The larger man next to him is just a spectator.

Yes this is somthing he does on his lunch brake at work and has nothing to do with our club other than the impression it leaves on the others that the President/CFI can do this. He even posted it on our club site, but I think he has removed it.
I have measured the distance from the field he is flying to the end of the airport runway, and it is 0.56 mile.
Althought everything seems to be under control, that is just to be asking for trouble.

Here is the link to the airport, with details of the radio frequencies they use:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto...icipal_Airport

As stated above, the limit in USA is 3 miles.

I would discuss the issue with this pilot before proceeding in full, as you don't know if the airport is aware of and allowing his flying there.

Best luck!
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Old 03-24-2010, 03:22 PM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace


ORIGINAL: LNEWQBAN
I would discuss the issue with this pilot before proceeding in full, as you don't know if the airport is aware of and allowing his flying there.
I kinda get the feeling that this suggestion won't be taken.

At my field, we sometimes have the opposite problem. Full-scale pilots that seem far, far too curious about what we're doing.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:09 PM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

Strictly speeking of the facts! Here's what happened yesturday..

I went to Buttonville airport and asked to speek to FlighLine. I asked if they were aware that just on the other side of that large black building(and I pointed out the window at it directly across the field) that there was a person flying a Powered Glider with a camera on board. They were shocked and they proceaded to look up the official rules as per Transport Canada. They came up with the same rules that FD av8r has posted...... 602.45 No person shall fly a model aircraft or a kite or launch a model rocket or a rocket of a type used in a fireworks display into cloud or in a manner that is or is likely to be hazardous to aviation safety. I then asked "do you consider this to be Hazardus to your opperations here at this airport", and the response was "ABSOLUTLEY! He's flying right at the end of our main runway!" I then took this infomation over to the building near were he is flying his plane. I spoke with the Head Security of Senica Collage( the owners of the land) and I asked the Security officer if he was aware that there was someone flying a large glider at roof top hights, with in 1/2 a mile of the secound bussiest airport in Canada and with a camera onboard. He said that hed spoken with the person and that the person had reasured him that it would be ok becouse he is the the president of a model aviation club and he has many years of experience(I guess that means the rules dont apply to him) The security guard then permitted him to fly there. I then presented the security with the info I obtained at the airport and I was very clear to mention that "I" had NO authority to tell the security officer to stop the RC pilot from flying there. But that given the new information from the airport that the decission was his to stop this. He then said " I guess Ill be telling him that he can no longer fly here" and thats what happened

I should mention, whilst I know the person that is breaking the law, he is unaproachable and beleives that he has to answer to no one but himself.

In the beggining of the video you can cleary see him flying over a crowded parking lot were the students park. This is his first violation of MAAC rules.

Lets forget about the real aircraft for a moment and look at the Highway just YARDS from were he is flying. I geuss..No one has ever lost radio contact with there plane right???
Old 03-24-2010, 09:09 PM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

Just out of curiosity, do you get along with the guy or have some sort of history with him?  I know that sometimes context is lost with the written word, but it comes off as though you may have an axe to grind with the guy.  It's a lot of effort and personal involvement as a go-between being expended.  Most concerned citizens would place a call and let those in authority choose how best to handle the situation.

Did you try to address this with him?
Old 03-24-2010, 09:54 PM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

I dont perticularly like the guy.. Does that change anything? Is he NOT flying were he is? Is he NOT damaging the image of a Safe RC comminity? I had a very bad naibour once that like to drink and drive. Should I have NOT called the police?

Please! veiw the video again and take a closer look at image LNEWQBAN has posted.

The matter is now closed I hope. At least that is the impression I got from the security guard.

Its always after the fact when something bad goes wrong that people say 'well if they knew about it, why didnt sombody do something ahead of time"

to answer your question as to why I didnt call... Conveinience.. I was heading that direction anyways and i did have all the neccasary phone #s to call.

I hope this matter is closed.
Old 03-24-2010, 10:01 PM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

sorry.. to answer your question "did we approach him about this" He posted his video on the Club Forums! When others mentioned that what he was doing was wrong, He said he wouldnt do it anymore. 4 months later he is still doing it. There is a Zone Meeting this weekend with the Heads of MAAC and you can bet this will be on the top of the agenda.

my oppologies Mike if I am comming across harsh. I realize your just playing Devils Advocate but come on..
Old 03-24-2010, 10:31 PM
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Default RE: searching for info on Airspace

I just think a direct approach better serves everyone involved.  In my experience, it's almost always better to deal with things at the lowest possible level, and to avoid anything official if possible.  Getting airport officials in on it is certainly a mistake, IMO.  You have a very vague, open-ended regulation there in Canada.  "Likely to be hazardous to aviation safety" is one of those phrases that in the wrong hands could have disastrous consequences for our hobby.  "Likely" is a dangerous term in the hands of a bureaucrat who's interests may include a bullet point on his annual review.

It really sounds like you went out of your way to stop at two places and push people to act, when you could have had a very direct and no non-sense conversation with the guy.  We have enough issues with keeping flying fields in this hobby.  Why expose potential dangers to officials without giving them proper context, when the truth appears that you've got a personal bone to pick with somebody?  It appears that anonymous public safety reporting smoke screens a personal vendetta.

The way you handled it wouldn't be the way I would have, nor could I be proud of doing it as you did.  I'll leave it at that.

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