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Armoral in fuel?

Old 04-07-2010, 09:36 AM
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zac137
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Default Armoral in fuel?

Has anybody ever used a cap full of armoral in their glow fuel to help combat against foaming? Just heard about it the other day and wondered if anybody has tried it.
Old 04-07-2010, 09:41 AM
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TFF
 
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

I have heard about it and I believe it works with one problem; it coats the element in the glow plug so after a while the plug wont react with the fuel even though it glows. So it can kill the glow plug. The real anti foaming agent is about $500 a gallon and is measured with an eyedropper hence the Armoral usage.
Old 04-07-2010, 09:46 AM
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zac137
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

In your opinion would a cap full of Armoral be too much for a gallon? Or would it be about right?
Old 04-07-2010, 09:47 AM
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dant-RCU
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

It used to work and I used it. You would add ONE or TWO drops per gallon. If I remember correctly
it was the silicon in the Armoral that did it. There was not enough in a gallon of fuel at one or two drops
to cause any problems as far as I know.

However, that being said; I read a while back that the Armoral formula has been changed and no longer
works as an anti-foaming agent. You might want to verify that fact as it has been a while since I read it
and do not remember where I did so.

Dan
Old 04-07-2010, 09:55 AM
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carrellh
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

Are you currently having problems with fuel foaming?

If no, do not add anything to your fuel. Do not try to solve a problem that does not exist.

If yes, can you do anything to pad the fuel tank or reduce the vibration that is causing the problem? If you cannot prevent the foaming mechanically, I guess the Armor All is woirth trying. I do not know of anyone who has actually tried it. I'd hate to ruin a full gallon of fuel so I'd probably experiment with a small quantity before dumping anything into a full bottle.
Old 04-07-2010, 09:56 AM
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

Are you having a problem with fuel foaming or are you trying to fix something that isn't broke?
Old 04-07-2010, 11:27 AM
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zac137
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

Yes, I am having a problem with fuel foaming and it makes my engine surge. I can see the bubbles going through to the engine. I have the fuel tank totally encased with foam so no part of the tank is touching the airplane. doing on the deck hovering is a bit nerve racking when the engine starts to surge.
thanks for the input guys. keep it coming
zach
Old 04-07-2010, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

Make sure your prop and spinner are balanced.
Old 04-07-2010, 12:32 PM
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zac137
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

good call i'll get back to you on that one.
Old 04-07-2010, 12:42 PM
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dant-RCU
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

If you are having foaming problems and your tank is securely wrapped in foam and not bouncing around
in the compartment then I would suggest you might have a pin hole or slight tear in the supply line.
I have had that happen to me and it was very frustrating.

Suggestion would be to pull the tank and supply lines and replace them all. Be sure to take a small
file and file the end of the pick up line inside AND outside of the tank to remove the possibilities of
any burrs and make sure that the clunk actually rests on the bottom of the tank and is free to move
top to bottom to right to left else you will pick up air in the supply line at some point.

It's an easy fix that might solve the problem.

Also to answer your earlier question; YES a capfull of Armoral would be too much. If you try it you
only want ONE or TWO DROPS and again I am not sure the newer formulation will act as an anti-foaming
agent..

My .02 on this topic.

Dan
Old 04-07-2010, 12:45 PM
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landeck
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

Here is what I use to eliminate bubbles in the fuel line:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXXF25&P=ML

Bruce
Old 04-07-2010, 12:59 PM
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zac137
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

Thanks for all the input guys I will give your suggestions a shot.
Old 04-07-2010, 01:59 PM
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ARUP
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

If all else fails use a 'racing' bladder tank. Fuel goes in a bladder inside 'hard' tank but pressure line outside of tank's bladder. The only way for any type of bubble to form would be of the 'cavitating' variety and there is no way our engines can pull that kind of vacuum!
Old 04-07-2010, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

Hi!
Well that OS gizzmo isn't going to solve a hole in a fuel line.
When ever you have air bubbles in the fuel line it sure isn't foaming that is the culprit! It's a hole somewhere in the tank!
Best way of getting rid of that problem is to use a Tettra "Bubble less" tank!
Old 04-07-2010, 02:08 PM
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zac137
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

ARUP- do you make your own bladder? Do you still have the vent line in the bladder? How do you go about setting it up? sounds pretty interesting.
Old 04-07-2010, 02:10 PM
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zac137
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

Also I have put new fuel tubing on the tank and the balance of the prop and spinner are AOK. Problem still persists.
Old 04-07-2010, 02:42 PM
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deckerv
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

I don't know if it'll help, but once on my Moki I ran a header tank setup on it like I do with my heli. Kept the fuel line submerged in a constant full tank with no air bubbles. May help if you have the room for one
Old 04-07-2010, 02:43 PM
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ARUP
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

ORIGINAL: zac137

ARUP- do you make your own bladder? Do you still have the vent line in the bladder? How do you go about setting it up? sounds pretty interesting.
Go to the Pylon Racing forum and I'm sure there is info there to direct you. I have used bladders (balloons, surgical tubing, etc.) in CL speed/ combat airplanes but never raced RC or used these tanks. However, I know those type of tanks exist. The fuel is drawn from the bladder that is inside the tank. The vent/pressure line goes into the tank but is not routed into the bladder. Excess castor/ lubricant gradually builds up inside tank (but outside the bladder) and has to be drained out from time to time.
Old 04-07-2010, 03:06 PM
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Rodney
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

If you use that Armoral, be sure to stock up on glow plugs as you will need them. The Armoral will put a coating on the plugs that makes them unusable. They will glow but they won't run your engine.
Old 04-07-2010, 04:32 PM
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

Hi!
Used by pylon racers word wide!
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Old 04-07-2010, 04:38 PM
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

You can add 5 or so parts per million of dimethylpolysiloxane.
Old 04-07-2010, 06:32 PM
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zac137
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

dimethylpolysiloxane? That one went over my head. Can I buy that at the local hardware store or something like that?

Jaka- thanks for the diagram.
Old 04-07-2010, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

Probably not at the hardware store. You could get it from a vendor to food processing companies, or a chemical company. It's an anti foaming agent that's often used in fryer shortenings.

A funny thing to do with it is coat your buddy's favorite beer glass. Then watch as every beer he pours goes instantly flat.
Old 04-07-2010, 11:57 PM
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

Fuel manufactures have been adding anti foaming agents for some time now. I don't bother using foam around my tanks at all any longer. If you see bubbles in your line your sucking air from someplace, even a bung that is a bit loose, little pin hole in the inside line. If adding something like Armoral to your tank was a good idea I'm pretty sure the manufactures would already be using it. If your tank is nearly full and your on the ground seeing bubbles you can be pretty sure it isn't foaming. Foaming fuel went out with bow ties and high button shoes. I have a video of a plane in flight with a camera pointed at the tank to show what is happening during flight, foaming wasn't present at all.
Old 04-08-2010, 12:25 AM
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JohnBuckner
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Default RE: Armoral in fuel?

I too am not aware of any commercial fuel blends that does not include an anti foaming package.

There is only one way to totally insure a complete absense of foam and that is using a bubbleless type tank that Arup and Jaka have already mentioned. They can be a tremendous advantage for certain problamatical airplanes and some types of flying.

As mentioned they are almost exclusively used world wide for pylon, The combat folks are rapidly learning of the advantages and they are very useful in controlline if constant fidlling with various uniflow schemes is not your cup of tea.

Although they are a combined suction/muffler pressure system as is the conventional tank they offer superior fuel delivery characteristics even to the point that in many cases they can be moved aft to the aircrafts CG (a big plus for a 3D type as well as some others) and still perform better than a conventional type.

The downside is of course they are around three times as expensive as the conventional tank but they can be hard mounted with no foam. Another downside is in crashs the bladder is normally ruptured.

John

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