Is this really necessary?
 

I recently moved to attend college & intended to continue flying so I don't get out of practice. I found a local group of modelers & went through some formalities but now they want me to fly with an instructor for 2 weeks to verify that I'm a safe pilot. I'm 22, been in the hobby for 5 going on 6 years & have flown everything from a giant scale Yak to a Piper Cub. I informed them that I was experienced & listed what I've owned & flown, yet they still at the end said I'd have to go through this process. Are there AMA regulations about this? There is a strip nearby that is seasonally used by cropdusters...does this affect anything? I don't know that I'll give up on this club but I am a bit resentful that my experience isn't credible.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

As the Club Safety Officer for my club, we have rules designed to maintain the safety of others. They may and probably don't have any doubt with your credibility or your flying skills. It's just a rule where they can observe a new pilot not only in the air, but in the pit area as well. A method of instructing all NEW member as to their rules and the way they do things at the field.

Don't take offense in their method, but comply and follow the rules. Once you have demonstrated your ability and safety awareness, they will respect you in greater detail than before and you will be welcomed as one of the group.

The other aspect of the rule is that everyone has to go through it. And if they break the rule for you, they will have to break it for others.

It should give you peace of mind knowing that the guy standing next to you, flying his plane, has the experience and the safety awareness, just as you do.

Frank

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

If they are the people you would like to fly with; shove your pride and go fly with the instructor. They are checking you out and you are a complete stranger and its their club. In all probability you will fly once and they will see you are Ok. If they think your wild they will send you on your way. That is how the world works.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Flying with an instructor for "2 weeks" seems a bit extreme IMO... Having one standing next to you for a few flights is more reasonable, if they can't determine you are a safe and experienced pilot after one day, they probably don't know how to fly themselves.

At the end of the day, its the club rules and sometimes its best to just play by the rules at first.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Each club has it's local flying rules and new pilots are/will be subject to those. It could be that they are overly cautious in this instance, but it would be best to learn why they have such a restriction in place rather then complain. True there are still many clubs out there, but the number of sites are going down and the airspace to fly is steadily getting smaller and more restrictive. I've been flying since I was 11 years old and now, I'm over 50. I still have to follow the same rules at the local clubs.

All in all it is about safety for each other and protecting the site. Pay your dues, follow the rules and always be safe. Things can go wrong very quickly.

Just my 2 cents....

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Hi packer welcome to the forum.

First things first, No the AMA does not have regulations about this. This is entirely up to the club and that is the bottom line. The variation among clubs can be considerable and all they are doing is trying to protect their field and the folks using it.

Being resentful about this is a mistake on your part. I suspect this attitude may have shown in your demeaner and suddenly things got very formal. Virtually every one who shows up at the field that are not new flyers all present themselves as accomplished flyers and boy I can assure you a high percentage are not.

Now if you like that field (and club you may be surprised) I would recommend you show up agine and have a relatively simple trainer or sport plane Not something you wanna put on a big show with and most important practice just tad more humility in talking to the folks and I betting you will find the experience will be something totally different than expected. If you fly even reasonalbly well Its likely the formal club rule thing will soon be relaxed.

This is not intended to belittle you in anyway and believe it or not You just may find you could fit in very well and believe it or not most clubs actually bend over backwards to encourage younger members. I was just involved in with two other instructors and we flew 39 boy scouts buddy cord flights and all at our own expense and all the scouts left with membership in the AMA and our local club free. Now if only a few continue on, it will have been a great success.

Heck get involved in this club you could possibly become on those Instructors. There is no age limit on instructors and you do not even need to be the greatest pilot What you do need to be is good communicator and people skills are definitely a big asset.

I wish you well and hope things work out.

John;)

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Rules are rules but there may be other clubs in your area. I do wonder what they do when an AMA member is just visiting the area and decides to fly at there field.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

2 weeks is jack squat to get into a good flying site. I like how Countilaw put it, that the fact those rules exist lets you know that every guy you see at the club is a verified competent and safe flyer. I would gladly submit to testing like that in order to be in a club that was that serious about safe flying.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Hi PACKERBACKER
I have been in RC planes for over 40 years. I suggest you follow the club rules. Allow them to do what they believe they should. Be a good member. Get along, go along.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

If you are as good as you claim to be then they should see this after a few flying sessions and remove you from double secret probation.  Just follow along and see how the club is. If they are overly anal about everything then it may not be the place for you.
Being safe is good for everyone but there are always those  "in-charge" who take it to the n'th degree.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

A lot of pilots can fly airplanes, but have no experience at flying at a club field which is disconcerning for both club members and the pilot new to the field. There are certain areas of no flight that must be understood and complied with. While a couple of weeks sounds excessive, I doubt that it will be as onerous as you think.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Here is my take.

If you have flown at the club and demonstrated you can fly already and now they want you to fly with an instructor.

1. Either your a pilot that needs help i.e not a very good pilot.
2. Or they just dont want you there.

If you can fly and maintain the pattern, and not be in jeopardy of being in someones way i.e. a safe pilot

this requirement is B.S.

As long as you hold an AMA card and can fly safely with others around. This is just a way of establishing that you are an underling and have to abide by the heirarchy of the club good old boy syndrome.

If it was me I'd go somewhere else.

Just sayin

Regards
Glenn Williams

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

I do think 2 weeks with an instructor is little much. Your ability to fly should learned on your first flight, maybe they just wanted to make sure you fly safe. Weather or not you can play well with others is a different story. Being in the military for a number of years, when I got to a new base, I checked in with the local hobby shop to find out about a club or flying field. In most cases I was welcomed and usually one of the members would be around observing my first flight. Once I retired and relocated to mt new home, I checked in with the hobby shop and was told I had to wait until the hobby shop owner could check out my airplanes and equipment. I did let them know that I had 20+ years of flying RC airplanes, and was an AMA Leader Member. I waited about 3 weeks until the hobby shop owner could meet me at the field (he didn't fly any more he just belonged to the club and provided the meeting place). Bottom line, I played by theirs rules. I am sure you will find a bunch of nice guys once they get to know you.

Take care
Rich

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Some time back i was traveling with my planes and stopped in at a field in Florida and asked to fly. I was told that the rule was i had to fly on a buddy box the first time. they called him to come to the field.
While I waited to started to get my plane ready. when the members saw my 40% they all had a good laugh. no body had ever seen one that big. When he showed up with the buddy box and saw the plane he just shook his head. He said I'll just watch. I had a lot of fun that day.
What I'm trying to say is, go along with the rules and enjoy your time. If you are good I'll bet you only have to fly once. Dennis

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Go with the flow. Our rules are 3 take offs and landings, under supervision (1 flight) and you are on your way:-) In your case it is 2 weeks, if you go Saturday mornings it means 2 days. Most likely after the instructor makes sure you can do what you say you can they will be OK. Even if they want an instructor next to you, for those 2 weeks, it will be over before you know it...

At least they appear to take a safety first approach, which is a good thing.

Gerrry

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

No, it's not necessary if you know how to fly that stuff that you've owned. Mind you, there is a club rule and that is the real roadblock.

So why not just say to the Numero Uno Big Cheese, why not just let me SHOW you? Cut the crap and the windbag talk. Let's have a demo.

Ensuring competence is a great idea. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work out that way in the real world, even with these rules. I can show you all sorts of guys in our club who have passed our wings program, even call themselves instructors and can't fly worth a hoot. However, they have been qualified according to the rules.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

I hope someone fromt he club read your post.  That kind of BS would totally turn me off and I would jsut tell you do not return.

If you can't just follow the rules without complaining they sure don't need you.

I appologize for this being a personal attack but I don't really see any other way to respond to this.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Club rules are just that all members and future members are required to follow the same rules. When I see a rule like that in place I have to wonder if there was an incident behind the making of said rule. That being said as a guest or perspective member you have to defer to the rules of the club even if they seem excessive. As a guest/perspective member first impressions are the ones the members will judge you by so it’s worthwhile to bend a little.

That being said I would not like to have someone as pilot in command with me on a buddy box flying one of my more expensive models. That would not happen. I do have and take with me a simple model just in case something like that is a condition of permission to fly.

I can remember one incident where after just receiving his wings the new pilot showed up intending to fly a 50cc extra. Wiser men said no and refused to let him fly it without being on a buddy box. He left the field in a huff and within a week joined another club where with his wings from the first club put the extra into the air. While trying to hover it he put it in the parking lot and into a couple of cars. So ownership does not mean competence many clubs now days have started to look more closely at the abilities of visitors and new members.

Events are even harder to manage in that everyone who shows up intends to fly what they brought and the club has little to go on as to their experience. I have seen forms where you have to sign off that you have at least 6 flights on the aircraft in question.

If you’re a guest/prospective member and you are already raising a fuss over club rules what kind of reaction can they expect once you are an accepted member? I don’t think there is an easy answer that would satisfy both parties.

Dennis

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

I can't believe someone would want to stay at your side - watching - for two weeks! Maybe they forgot to bring their transmitter or wing tube :)

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Now that I think about it some more I agree with rgburrill. As a guest/prospective member what gives you the right to question the club rules.

Dennis

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Don't get me wrong, I was understanding & didn't even hint that I was perturbed about it. I'm not one to show what I'm thinking but just wanted to know what the AMArules were if there were any on it. I can understand a few laps & a landing, I've seen hotshots come in & pretend they're professionals. I've been throughquick observance for airshows & fun fly events at different places, I just had a hard time understanding two weeks with an instructor. Members are the only ones with access through the gate so it's just a bit frustrating to know I'll have to coordinate schedules & hope weather is good so I can get it done & be let loose. I got the sense it's not a laid back process either so 2 Saturdays wouldn't be sufficient enough. I'm going to bite the bullet & go in with a good attitude. I want to be seen as "one of the guys" as much as anyone else...just not something I expected. Thanks to all for your replies so far.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Well said:D Sure the other members ( instructor) just wants to check you out for safety. No big deal. If you can fly and demonstrate without causing bodily injury and property damage
.. that'll be shown before you even get off the ground.
Everyone's got to earn their "wings". Another thing to consider, is that you may be able to fly... well. But, you've never flown that field.
Every field I'm sure has it's own "pattern". Meaning, while flying.. others are not going to step aside while you take to the air and "fly".

Others ( including the safety and the instructor) need to see your capabilities in the air. Not just talking about your flying capabilities, but your ability
to fly while others are airborne... and others are on the ground .. like the pits or seating area.

I.E. -Fields have takeoff and landing patterns you need to follow. Not just randomly taking off or landing in any general direction you please
but from specific take-off and landing approaches depending on direction...away from the general pit area. This will go into what's considered a "procedure turn"
while gaining your" wings" for the field.

And I know that an instructor; if they're an instructor, has to go over this with you. He's not trying to bust your ****s about it. He's trying to
teach you the club rules and the field with safety in mind.

Nobody wants to see you loose a bird because you've been "flying" for so many years and you need no instruction. Members with that attitude
don't last. They get discouraged from the hobby fast and move on.

Entertain them and demonstrate, if you say you can fly as good as you say you can. If not, do yourself the favor and loose the chip and take the
advice and teachings in stride . It's wealth of knowledge you can't duplicate by reading RCU. That's what they're there for. They have nothing to gain from it. But YOU do!

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

I think you should go to a club meeting and protest their rules if they really require a two week checkout for an experienced flyer. I have no problem with a club asking for a proficiency check before flying, but if you demonstrate proficiency in one flight then that should be all it takes. They are way out of line. Does that mean that when you get checked out you can't have a non-member guest fly without a checkout too? I would either demand a rule change and do some good for others, or go rogue and just find some farmer that will let you fly in their field. Private strips like you spoke of make great places to fly as long as you coordinate with the owner and pilots to maintain a safe environment for full scale ops. And no, it is not against AMA rules or safety code to do so. some of these RC clubs need to lighten up. They are scaring good people away and making a great hobby miserable with excessive rules and overly aggressive policing of existing rules. That IS against AMA policy and their mission statement. Good luck and remember to have fun.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Just fly and let them tell you what to do. After a couple of days they will probably 'turn you loose' if you are the pilot you say you are. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff. After all is said and done from a practical standpoint, you might not like them! It's a two way street.

RE: Is this really necessary?
 

Packerbacker,I guess you must be a Wisconsinite. I think 2 weeks is WAY to much. I'm sure after a couple of flights they will cut you loose. Suck it up, you will gain the respect of the your new club members.That being said, clubs need rules to smoothly admit new accomplished pilots into an existing club. We had a small club close by us. We 20-25 new pilots wishing to join our club. We require a "check ride" flight demo to show total control ofthe airplane and knowledge of the field rules.Sorry to say, this was handled poorly. 18 months later, we have pilots that DO NOT know the field rules, even though your club application signed by the applicant, attests that you have read and understand the field rules.When these pilots are ask to comply with the rules, some have created quiet a problem ( they are being picked on, they claim). The club's board is now reluctant to address this issue ( on going).So I can see it both way.