have questions about using titebond
 

hi guys
Just going to be starting a greatplanes extra 300s .60 kit, and I have been checking building threads and noticed a lot of people using titebond but cant see it mentioned anywhere on my instructions so.

is titebond used instead of CA?

could do with some help from guys who do a lot of building why and where titebond is to be used.
looking forward to my build and want to learn abit more about that side of the hobby any help would be great.

cheers steph:o

A lot of people use Titebond in place of CA due to allergies with the CA glues. It also dries slower, giving you more time for parts placement. If you're not in a big hurry, it's a great glue for building. There are three types of Titebond, numbered 1, 2, and 3. 1 is for general woodworking, which is what you want. 2 is water resistant glue, good for outdoors. 3 is waterproof, good for float planes. You should use epoxy for high stress areas, like fire walls, but Titebond would work for the rest of the plane. Wipe up any squeeze out in the joints to help save weight.. Hope this helps, good luck on the build.

I have been using some cheap q-tips to wipe all the joints where I glue to keep things nice and the glue down in the joint.

Thanks guys I think I will just follow the instructions and use CA and epoxy, I was just wondering if titebond was somehow far superior to CA and was better to use in some areas.

thanks steph.

Titebond provides a great/strong glue joint and when dry is very little if any heavier than CA. Two big points for me, the lack of CA fumes is always good and Titebond cost less. I do CA in some areas or when i am in a hurry but the use of CA is fewer and further between these days. As yel914 said, no matter what glue you do your general construction with use epoxy as he explained.

After many many years and gallons of Ca, I have a pretty bad allergy to it. It looks like poison ivy or poison oak on my arms. So to me, Titebond is bar far supierior to Ca. Titebond is stronger then the wood so wood will fail before the glue will. To speed up the building I use a dab of hot glue to hold the parts in place while the titebond dries. So for me it is as fast as CA. Plus you can get almost a gallon for what you get 2 ounces of Zap for.


Buzz.

I use Titebond II for most of my building needs, epoxy is always used in high stress areas like firewalls and landing gear. I prefer to use 30 minute epoxy over any other for strength issues. As much as I use Titebond, it may not be the best choice for all building needs, one has to consider the type of wood and thickness of the wood to be glued. Being water based, using it on very thin balsa sheeting may lead to warping as an example. Using CA when edge glueing planking/sheeting may seem like the right choice, but experienced builders know that trying to sand the joint will prove to be challenging. So, where am I going with all this, one has to consider what and where you are trying to glue, sometimes the choice isn't so clear cut....

I find the Tight Bond 2 to give a little more working time and maybe a tad stronger. If you work on two or three of the assemblies (rudder, elevators etc) at a time you can build as fast as using CA. CA can soak far into the end grain of balsa. While this in and of itself is not an issue, it does add extra weight and the CA is more brittle than Tight Bond. IMO an airframe built with Tight Bond or similar glue is overall more resistant to the stresses of flying and handling. That is it will flex to some degree and not break. CA requires perfectly fitting joints to bond. While Tight Bond also requires good fitting joints it does give a little wiggle room. I have used Tight Bond on firewalls with out issue. In a crash the firewall tore out BUT the glue joint was not at fault. The wood of the fuse let go.

It all comes down to what you are most comfortable with using.

Ken

Glue strength is not an issue anywhere but on the high structural parts like firewalls, landing gear blocks, and the tail pieces. Balsa is not a strong material. Any of the 3 glues mentioned in the thread will be stronger than the surrounding wood, although as kenh3497 mentioned Titebond will fill gaps just a little bit. If you're not convinced, do a good angled butt joint on some balsa stock using the various glues. Then break the resulting piece any way you want to. The surrounding wood will break before the joint does 99% of the time no matter what glue you use.

Titebond is a general wood glue. All major glue manufacturers make a glue comparable to it. They're all referred to as "Carpenter's Glue".

I have a lengthy write up about glues on my website if you care to read it.

I primarily us carpenter's glue for my models for several reasons. The main reason is because I just like it. It's not the cost or the fumes or any of that. It's because it's easy to work with, easy to clean up, it's way more than strong enough for general construction and the most important thing is that it gives me the most time to get parts in place to ensure they're aligned properly.

Thin CA has a slight advantage there in that you can have the parts already in place perfectly aligned and then hit it with the glue. But the glue itself is messy and one thing I really don't like is seeing glue outside the joint. I like very clean construction and carpenter's glue is the best glue for people like me.

Somewhere along the line someone decided that you have to go back over these joints with CA which is crazy. That's absolutely unnecessary. I've never done it and nobody did it for decades before CA's were being used to build model airplanes.

I do not build fillets of glue anywhere for any reason.

And do not use any water-base glue for laminating. Use epoxy, polyurethane glue (Gorilla glue) or contact cement.

Don't use Titebond for firewalls. You actually probably could if the wood fit was excellent and you have proper clamps firmly clamp the full side to the firewall tightly and not just a couple pieces of masking tape or two C-clamps. or a rubber band or equally dodgy methods.

This is my page on adhesives (See Aliphatic Resins): http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform.../adhesives.htm

It really is superior in my opinion. It's less brittle and way more forgiving. CA sets up fast. If you make any mistakes with CA they're way harder to fix. I really don't recommend beginning builders use CA. It's ultimately your choice but I very strongly suggest you get some building experience because you are going to make mistakes and cutting parts back out is a lot harder than removing a part with wet glue and wiping the glue off.

There is some very good advice on this thread from seasoned and accomplished builders, Steph69 I would heed their advice.

Like you, when I built my first kits, I followed the instructions and used CA and epoxy over the years. Now, I find myself using wood glue for everything except the high stress areas.
Going back in time, I probably would have eliminated CA completely. It can be useful if you are in a hurry (which you should not be), or occasionally for holding a part in place while the slower glue dries. CA has nasty fumes, is messy, and expensive. As mentioned by others, you can also see it, especially on joints because it is harder to sand than the surrounding wood. Wood glue dries clear, shrinks, and the stuff should outlast the wood! If used correctly, (IE don't squeeze half a bottle at every joint) I believe it is just as light as CA.

I vote for titebond!

All of the above is good advice. Most planes should use a variety of adhesives when building. Epoxy on firewalls, landing gear plates, etc. Titebond is good for most other assembly areas. CA is great for balsa-to-balsa attachment but keep in mind that CA isn't good for high vibration environments or any place that might see moisture such as oils, water, etc.
Experiment with different adhesives and acquire experience is the best advice. One size seldom fits all. Enjoy the build!

what yourinstrutions say is not always good use titebond at least give it a try to me ca is not to good had my whole tail end fall off one time while flying with ca

Both are good glues indeed and as stated already consideration must be used when gluing things like sheeting together, but the process of how things are sanded in the end is even more of a consideration, IMO. If you are going to use CA then work in a well ventilated environment or you may develop allergies, so... I am one of those that uses only thin and medium CA on my builds because as already stated all these glues are stronger then the wood, so personally I don't epoxy anything together on a built up wood airframe simply because it is not needed in my experience, a well fit joint, and in places like firewalls and landing gear blocks small pieces of properly tailored and placed medium density tri stock balsa is what's needed. Medium or thick CA also possesses gap filling qualities so it really depends on what you like using in the end. One last thing, I do use laminating epoxy resin when I vacuum bag bond skins to foam cores for wings, tail feather, turtle deck, forward decks and bottom decks because it is a strong and lightweight way to go. Anyway the best to you on your build.

Titebond 3 is incredibly strong, I coated a wooden spar with it and pushed it into a wing slot and seconds later attempted to remove the spar, it was impossible, the grab time was very very quick for a white glue, probably because it was a snug fitting slot, it started grabbing as I was pushing the spar in, so work rapidly in a tight fitting application.

All very good seasoned responses to your question. One thing to keep in mind when using Titebond or white glue is that different woods have varying absorption rates, affecting not only how long it may take for the glue to cure but what form the wood may take during the curing process. I scratch built an E300L Profile with 84" wingspan using Titebond II. The inner wing ribs were 3/8" plywood, which warped as the glue cured - (overnight). The wing was fine except for a 1/4" wide gap as the wing plugged into the fuselage. I was able to overcome the inconsistency using Durhams Water Putty and Saran Wrap, but time consuming and a general pain in the tush. Had I kept an eye on the ribs as they dried, this may not have occurred.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...oZ4Am8-rC5FkZM
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2040241

Use old fashion Ambroid or Sigment for edge gluing sheeting sands like the balsa for invisible butt joints. Masking tape the sheets together on one side turn over open like a hinge apply you choice of glue lay flat and weight. Don't forget the wax paper

MinnSpinn,

What did the 84" profile plane weigh when finished?

I built a 100" sailplane in 1978 using the original Titebond , I still can't break it despite the insane winch launches .
Way better than ca.

Have you tried bashing it into a car door taking it out of the car? How about leaving it on the floor and stepping on it? Or picking it up really fast and smashing it into the ceiling? I find those to be really effective ways of breaking model airplanes and can confirm through first hand experience. I'm sorry you're having so much trouble breaking yours. If you bring it to my place I'm sure I can have it broken for you soon enough.

Don't forget closing a car door on the fuselage, or walking through a 36 inch wide door with a 40 inch wing.....

You do realize that if you had of built that sailplane using CA instead of Titebond it wouldn't need a winch because it would have been so light that it flew like a home sick angel and the slightest wind or thermal activity would have acted like the wind beneath it's wings causing it to fly Way higher, Way faster and Way Way further, all while lasting Way longer than anything else in a 100" span class of sailplane. :)


Bob




























Just messing with you...;)

Too much caffeine, CaffenMan? I can relate to your dilemma, especially hauling the planes up and down the basement stairs.

I remember a trick people used to do is water down Titebond about half-n-half with water and brushing it into and around the joints. Is that still a recommended approach? Or is that old hat?

Remember, wood glue is compatible with CA, but CA and epoxy are not compatible.

Everyone who thinks they need to reinforce already glued joints doesn't really understand wood joints in the first place. It's never been necessary ever if you could make the wood fit properly, used the glue properly and clamped it properly. I've never gone back over any glue joint with more glue and my glue joints don't come apart.