RealFlight's Edge 540 has me wondering if it's a fine beginners plane for me. (??)
 

The RealFlight simulator Edge 540 looks to defy gravity by slowly floating in for a landing on half throttle while tracking as straight and smooth as an arrow!

I've always enjoyed building RC planes for many years but dropped out of the hobby 8 years ago and before I could master flying RC. I've built 60" - 90" planes from kits as well as enlarged plans. But the flying aspect gets me nervous, and I was content with just watching experienced pilots fly my creations. Well, I just upgraded my old Gen2 Realflight to the 6.5 version, and it's the first time in years I picked up a simulator. I was amazed to find that I could fly and land the RealFlight Edge 540 easier then the simulators high wing trainers like a PT40 or the Sig Seniorita. It seems the 540 on the approach can fly level just a few feet above the runway at less then half throttle and it is almost impossible for me to crash it. It tracks in smooth and steady even with a simulated 9 MPH crosswind, while I find that the simulated high wing trainers float, bounce, and stall, and usually do not react quick enough to my input for corrections. Go figure....because I also do better with the simulated Ryan STA or the Moonwalker then I do with the simulated trainers!

Can I believe this? ....Can the 540 be so smooth, steady, and docile that I can build an 80" model and sucessfully train with it? (yes, I'd use a buddy box)........or is this just a false perception I'm experiencing with the Realflight simulator?


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Here is an 85" Big Bingo which was the last RC model that I built before dropping out of the hobby about 8 years ago. I had an experienced pilot at the club take it around a few times.... which I really enjoyed watching.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2067409http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2067404http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2067405 http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2067408 http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2067406 http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2067414 http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2067415

Hi Rustyrivet great looking Bingo. I still fly an old Wild stick with a 1.8 Moki, Dang I love that engine.

Do yourself a favor and forget the the over reliance thing on Sims as a total bypass to the conventional mentor/instructor method, doing otherwise will usually end up costing you more cash$$$ and more time in learning. And simply surviving in your early flights without crashing many not necessarily mean that you are a 'competent' flyers.

Sure a pattern type or a scale aerobat will seem smoother and that's simply because they are deliberately designed to have very neutral roll characteristics which is that apparent "Stays where you put it" tendency but this is not ideal for training and as you know most trainers are designed for a so called slight self righting tendency and that is the difference you are talking about. Also far to many folks tend to fly there trainers around at full throttle (this is especially endemic with the self teaching crowd) And virtually all these folks would be shocked how wonderful their trainers really do handle when they simply pull the darn throttle back.

Use a trainer (Oh my heavens how wonderful a seniorita with a 25 would be agine for you) or ir you like a more conventional second type of airplane if you truly going to fly with a mentor.

John:cool:

Everything John said plus a lot of the sim planes are 3-D and fly very nice on the sim. In the real world it's a lot different. Fly the Bingo instead, it will give you a lot more chances then an Edge. If you don't feel comfortable with the Bingo you really won't be comfortable with the Edge. Trainer first then work your way up to the stunt planes.

I suggest that you get a Sig Kadet Senior if you like to build, or a Kadet Senior ARF, if you want something in a hurry.

http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmar...ftF.html?E+Sig


I recently re-trained myself, after years of more building than flying. The Sig Kadet Senior Sport ARF had me back in the air, and regaining my skills in very little time. After regaining your skills, the Kadet Sport makes for a good flying sport plane.

Edge 340s are designed to be able to snap roll.

This means that if you mistreat them on take off or landing you WILL get a snap roll and most likely a broken airplane. Not a design that I would recommend for the less experienced pilot.

I fail to understand what pilots have against "trainer" planes. It seems that most of the aversion to them comes from new or inexperienced fliers. Veteran fliers love them and what they can do with them. Can it be that folks just simply don't like to consider themselves a "beginner" in anything they attempt, as though that somehow diminishes them? Veteran fliers, almost without exception, keep a "trainer" in their hangar and love to bring it out occasionally to putt around the sky, change the CG on to see what it does, increase or decrease the amount of dihedral on the wing, modify the tail feathers, change the throws on the control surfaces, on and on to enhance the flying experience. This is really the place to start, but then hang of to them even after deciding in your own mind that you are now an advanced flier. They will provide you with years of pleasure and you will be amazed at what you can do with one even after you have moved on to more advanced airplanes.

that one. :) Stick with the Seniorita :) (or fly someone else's 540 on a buddy box :) ) I will certainly agree that bigger airplanes typically fly better than smaller ones (all other things being equal)
but a full fledged 3D airframe is not what I would be flying without some stick time with a proper trainer.
I completely agree with what's been posted thus far

I learned to fly with the sim and know a lot of others who have, it gives you a lot of practice and I think it's actually harder than the real rc flying, I went from an Avistar to a low wing scale plane in a short time without much problem, I agree the larger (real RC) 540 flys better , but I would still start with a trainer because they're durable, cheap and they'll build your confidence. And later you'll still fly the trainer.

Thanks gents for the input. The bottom line is that I've officially dropped the idea of building the Edge. I kind of figured that this was going to be your answer......but I was so truly amazed with the simulator results, that I just wanted to ask you anyway just to make sure this was a bad idea. I had wisful hopes that the edge 540 could do everything as graceful as a trainer, without the beginner pilot necessarily having to employ any of its acrobatic abilities until he was ready for it. In other words; I thought I could buy this 560 Horsepower Corvette from my local Chevy dealer and just drive it around town modest and simple like my Ford F150 truck and cruise it at the 65MPH speed limit on the interstate. (.........even though it is capable of burning rubber at 0-60MPH in 4.6 secs and a top speed of 197 MPH)

Jolly Popper,
I have nothing against trainers, and was more just looking for something else to build then what I've already done. I currently own a PT40, Hobbistar 60, Sig Seniorita, .a Sturdy Birdy, a 75" Telemaster, and a .61 Norvel powered ARF glider. The Telemaster and glider haven't even been flown yet. I still haven't abandoned the idea of doing an enlarged Sig Kadet. It would be my first gasser which I want to get experienced in working with. Yes....I use to buddy box my planes when I was a member at the RC club....but I dropped out before I learned to fly. Like I said, I really enjoy the building aspect of the hobby much more then flying.

Once you achieve the ability to fly with confidence, you may find it enjoyable. While I still like to build, I find myself spending more and more time at the flying field.

Build your Edge if you'd like, but dig out your Seniorita or PT-40 and get acquainted with them. With the help of an instructor, you should soon be on the path to having the skills to fly larger, aerobatic, models with confidence.

As a builder, I can assure you that flying one of my creations is a more satisfying feeling than watching it being flown by another.

If you like building and want something easy to fly but capable of maneuvers then consider a BIG ugly stick. At least 60 inches.

You can get the plans easily and I think there are pre cut kits around but you buy the sticks and bits.

Max, if people didn't want to distance themselves from the trainer I would have to go out and buy or build one. I love it when someone gives me there old trainer. I really need a new one now!!
Rusty, I fully understand your desire to build but I found out a long time ago the best planes aren't always found in kits. I started just buying plans years ago. Go take a look at the Airage web site from Model Airplane News. There are a lot of planes you will never see at a field and I enjoy cutting my own kits from plans. There are also a lot of free plans sites you can go to.
As to flying some of these planes, well even some of the really cool looking planes are easy to fly. I built a pair of the 60 size Swoose float planes and with the really cool looking gull wing and racy fuse the plane looks like a racer from the golden age but with the flat bottom wing it's pretty easy to fly. It does all the stunts you would want to do too. These are both float and land planes. I found a site where the fellow just enlarged the plans and made his a big land based plane. Kinko's and other copy services can make the plans to most any size you would want.
Just look at the plans site and you will find a lot more cool planes then you will ever have time to build.

Ok after reading this thread I suppose I have to come forward and throw a different opinion out there. First off I too would not suggest an Edge to finish instruction on but not because of its flying charicteristics. Properly set up they are very docile and forgiving. Some guys respond better to an airplane that goes where pointed. I know I did. Setting up an Edge a tad nose heavy and timing for level flight at 1/2 throttle will give some self righting in a dive. Contrary to another opinion they are not snappy, it is obvious that that poster has not flown an Edge himself. In the last 10 years or so the scale aerobatic type airplanes have just boomed in popularity. The reason for this is that they do have a high level of performance but more importantly is that they are easy to fly. The reason I would not suggest one for training is that they are usually more fragile then what you would want. If we were talking about a first tail dragger then my opinion would be to go for it. A couple pictures of one of the many Edges I have owned. Yes, that is Shaq.

Sure the Edge 540 is a nice flying plane for the capable and confident pilot. It just is not suitable for the OP.

BTW I have flown several 540s some were good generally the bigger ones, some were truly nasty.

I'm just curious as to why you would make a blanket statement that an Edge 540 is snappy simply because it is capable of snap rolls. The Alpha trainer that I keep around for the kids is capable of snap rolls as well. It's all defendant on the setup. My 40% Extra will just decend at 45 degree flight path if brought to an idle and full elevator applied.

I only had one snappy plane that I built, it was a CAP 232 and the kit was cut in Mexico. Looking back on that plane I would think it had more to do with the set up and CG then the plane itself. Other then that I haven't seen any signs of the Edge being snap happy. I had one Extra ARF that was a snap looking for a place to happen but it was an old prototype 30 or 35% that was so over weight the poor thing couldn't help itself if it got too slow.
I still wouldn't tell a low time almost pilot to get an Edge or any other full on stunt plane but I do agree the Edge isn't snap happy.

Gene, I hear ha. Looking back at some of the airplanes I had that flew less the desirable I can honestly say that some flew that way because at the time I simply did not have the skill set to flight trim them correctly. IMO just about any airplane that has a reasonable wing loading can be set up to fly wild to mild. As far as what I would suggest to a fairly new pilot depends on that particular pilot. I lost my trainer before my solo and started flying my dads pattern airplanes ( Mach 1 and Miss Norway ) for me the pattern airplanes were easier to fly because they were point and shoot. Got back into a trainer to learn to land and then went straight into a Q500. The only real reason I would not suggest an Edge as a second airplane is simply because they just won't take any abuse. As far as flight charicteristics go, I wouldn't see it as an issue. In fact after learning how to fly a trainer around, I used to let my daughter fly my 50cc Laser.

Shawn, the OP states he never finished flight training and that was 8 years ago but did state he would buddy box the Edge. That just sort of puts me off a bit. I went from the Sr. Telemaster to the Up-Roar and flew the Roar better then the Master?? I found the Kaos even smoother though and easier to take off and land, that's no surprise.
I have to retrain a buddy, he is/was a very good pilot though but has a bad eye problem so he put down his radio. I'm not going to put the trainer back together for him though, he was much too good for that. I will however use my new Roar and box him for a day. He just wants to get back into it so he can fly his small Taylor Kraft off of his little private lake when the weather changes again. He should take right to it again but he was a good pilot long before I ever met him.

Exactly. A new pilot still has to learn to fly and land with crosswinds, bumpy winds, crowded skies, etc. A well built trainer will take a bad landing much better than a superlight 540.