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-   -   Outrunner Problems (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/questions-answers-154/5288991-outrunner-problems.html)

saucerguy 01-19-2007 08:14 AM

Outrunner Problems
 
I have 2 Outrunner 450's, one I had to resolder the wires to the windings, still as of yet to replace the bearings which are toast, when I try to power it up, it's just not kicking in gear properly and is stuttering when I hit it with juice. The second one, similar to the first, when I power it up, it doesn't kick in until I get some momemtum or power it up very gradually, ie. tap the prop to get it spinning a little before powering it up. What's disturbing, both of these are less then a year old and I'm not able to fly all day every day like alot of people since the opportunity doesn't exist for me weather wise. Are these things this prone to malfunction, or should I be going with a different manufacturer. I'm not going to play the rewind/rebuild game with them, just if I'm shelling out the big bucks for motors, I'd like to get a little more life out of them then a few months, these are the first 2 brushless motors I've purchased, have 2 esc's different manufacturers and 2, 3 cell lipo's, again, different manufacturers, and of course, seperate RX's as well, so can't blame any of them and it's the motor that's the root of the problem.

I suspect it's poor bearing tech, but any other thing I need to look out for, let me know.

firstplaceaviator 01-19-2007 08:58 AM

RE: Outrunner Problems
 
It sounds like the windings are shorted. That is the usual cause of motor stuttering. This usually happens when the motor has been over loaded.
Either, the motors are just cheap junk, or you may have them over propped, or too much battery.
Please provide the following:
1. Motor brand and model number
2. prop brand and size
3. speed control brand and amp rating.
4. battery brand, amperage and C rating(if known).

Then we can move on to a solution!
Doug

saucerguy 01-19-2007 07:32 PM

RE: Outrunner Problems
 
I just plugged in one of my old 9.6, 650 mah nimh batteries, same problem, battery isn't the issue, the eflight 9/6 prop has no relavence since it's the exact middle of the chart per the eflight outrunner 450 specs and it's literally starting up so there is no torque/inertia invloved where the prop would have any bearing on it's effect, since even removing it, it does the same thing. Both speed controllers are completely different makes and manufacturers and both are giving me the same results. Everything worked originally, but I gotta add, I have wrecked planes with them so they did take some abuse, so going to leave it as either shorting and likely, cheap junk, just at 65.00 a pop, I was expecting a little more durability. What brushless motors do you use, and what are the most durable ones on the market?

firstplaceaviator 01-20-2007 09:52 AM

RE: Outrunner Problems
 
I have used Axi, MP Jet, E-flite and Nippy Black motors with great sucess. The MP Jets have been the most durable, surviving many many crashes without damage. I have one that is on its 4th airframe. I know I am pushing it to the limit with my prop and battery combination. But, it has never missed a beat. Simply, the best!
The Axi is a great motor. But, I have crashed them a few times, usually resulting in a bent shaft.
The same goes for the E-flite motors I have used.
The Nippys have the best warranty. 1 year un-conditional. If it breaks, they'll fix or replace it free! The second year is pro-rated.
I have one on an E-flite Mini Funtana. It is very powerful. But, it has never been crashed. I don't think it would get damaged unless it was dove straight into concrete!

You have to be careful with the battery/prop combination. Too low of voltage (2 cell pack) can overheat a motor designed for a 3 cell pack. The same goes for a motor designed for a 2 cell pack. If you run a 3 cell pack, the high voltage can damage the windings. I have not fried any out-runners. But, i have fried several in-runners.
Oh well! You gotta learn what works and what doesn't some how!
Doug

firstplaceaviator 01-20-2007 10:07 AM

RE: Outrunner Problems
 
Oh yeah, The stuttering is just the end result of a problem.
The reason I asked for specific information, was so I could tell you what caused your motors to go bad.
Really cheap out-runners are prone to failure from poor quality parts and poor assembly techniques.
All of the motors that i have named are good quality motors. They don't typically fail unless they have been overloaded.
Doug

saucerguy 01-20-2007 10:33 AM

RE: Outrunner Problems
 
Ok, will research what brands you mentioned, when I tore the stator off of the first one, noticed the metelurgy was rather cheezy with the cans, the winds were also really sloppy, so I guess I wasted 65.00 a pop on my two. I assume you have taken a close eye to its innards of yours, going brushless is really expensive compared to brushed, regardless, complained to one of my LHS's about support for these and he's going to "talk" to eflight about it Tuesday to get my bearings since apparently nobody has ever doen their own repairs on their own and his initial solution was for me to contact them directly to have them fix it at their facility, which was the extent of his understanding on them.............................................. ............................................. Again reinforces why I am no longer going through the LHS for this expensive gear, I might as well be picking it up from the trunk of someones car, regardless, I told him to get me two set's of bearings and an extra retaining collor, I'll get both of them back online, just didn't want to have to divert to playing brushless scratch builder geek since I'd rather be building planes instead.

Thanks for your input and insight, I'm absorbing this stuff like a sponge and getting a good education about these here, what's sad, you have given me more support and have a much better understanding of what's going on then the vendors I bought them from in the first place and you made no profits on the initial transaction, nor are selling them to others, I'll take some time out tomorrow to write out the specs for you of what I have if it's necessary, didn't take the time to check out the connections being shorted yet since I got on a tangent with another scratch build plane this eve since rain is going to be around for a while so have time to get these issues addressed.

saucerguy 01-21-2007 07:40 PM

RE: Outrunner Problems
 
I got it working, I bent the area where the wires attached to the motor, didn't even have to take it apart and found out it was indeed shorting out, after I found the sweet spot where it was supposed to be at, I hit it with some hot glue to help insulate that area and keep them in their proper area, now as long as I don't overheat the motor, it should work, it's now powering up correctly, definetly not going with the same mfg. again, they should have engineered a little more clearance for those, the thing is ultra light already, some extra area wouldn't have affected performance at all, then again, I never had a problem with the nimh's weight wise compared to lipo's as well, but I don't fly 3d.

firstplaceaviator 01-22-2007 02:22 PM

RE: Outrunner Problems
 
Glad to hear you found the problem! We have the same problem with LHS's here.
We have two great hobby shops with great prices and huge inventories.
But, the people who work there don't understand their products even care about being helpful.
Their answer to a problem is always "Call the manufacturer"
If you start asking specific questions about motors, batteries or speed controls, they pick up the box and try to find the answer.
They have no clue how to match components for electric planes or helis'.
I get so disgusted with them! I have told them that they are making customers throw money away because they are selling there products on "I guess it will work"
If they don't know what a customer needs, then THEY should call the manufacturer and find out.
The reasons I have fried motors, speed controls and batteries were all preventable, if someone had pointed me in the right direction.
It was a very expensive way to learn. But, at least I can now help other modelers that are facing the same dilemas that I have been through.

saucerguy 01-22-2007 06:49 PM

RE: Outrunner Problems
 
1 Attachment(s)
It was so simple to pinpoint the problem after your input, I couldn't beleive these guys were dumbfounded when I brought in my whole shebang to show them what was going on in person. Unfortunately, hobby shops are more like toy stores these days, they think everybody only want's an ARF or RTF and that nobody has any interest in making their own planes or fixing their own gear any more. They complain about the web merchants eating into their bottom line, but I'm getting more and more of an education in areas I'd never wanted to in the first place just to keep flying because they refuse to learn about what they are selling in the first place. So far, am down to my last working brushed esc, all of the rest either fried because they were rated for a weak battery system, I had to learn that through trial and error, or the rest destroyed my RX's and after figuring that out, spent way too much learning the hard way, so like you, I share my own experiences so that others don't have to make the same mistakes.

Showing some of January's new creations here, each plane costed me max, 4.00 a piece and were only a couple days to make each, start to finish, front two maidened well and I pulled the gear and put it into the rear two that have yet to be properly maidened but have no worries about their flyability since I didn't deviate too far into theory, that and when I crash them, unlike an expensive arf, I can rebuild another in house easily without batting an eye. They used to look down at me for buying all of these odds and ends, knowing I could more cheaply get an ARF which includes the stuff, those same odds and ends have been used over and over, unlike what is normally supplied in the arf's, and in fact, am able to fabricate alot of them in house now so have even less of a reason to go in there. I've done my best in the past to support my LHS, but not seeing a reason to any more for obvious reasons, maby some day I'll start my own and really get back to the roots as to what a hobby shop is supposed to be about, I see the local ones always have clients frequenting them, so the market is there if they just knew how to follow up and take care of their clients with real support and figure out, there are alot of us that prefer to build our own planes and fix our own gear.

Again, thanks for your help !

saucerguy 01-30-2007 07:47 AM

RE: Outrunner Problems
 
Ok, had a few flights out of motor 2, it's now toast, motor one, it's also toast, the bearings died, I'm out 130.00 with only a few flights out of each, I will never buy an eflight outrunner motor again, meanwhile, need reccomendations, are there any made for durability, I'm just going to toss these two to the waste can, can't fly any of my better birds until I get outfitted again. Need something in the same power range, if not more so, money isn't as much of an issue as durabilty, and it's difficult to sort the the techno babble since most described detail different elements rather then raw rpm's under a universal current load.


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