CA Warning
 

I asked Tower to send me the toxicity report on CA. Since it came as a photo I retyped the first few lines. Many folks on the forums have developed the prolonged colds and or asthma reactions while using CA, many have not, but in the spirit of trying to warn individuals that may be unaware of the potential hazards I thought I'd post this.

This documentation (that I had to ask for) should be posted in the adhesive sites and come with the bottle. At least then you could decide to heed the warning, take extra precautions or shrug it off,,, your choice. The impression I got from reading numerous internet documents posted on the subject is that the lung damage can be permanent however more often than not you will heal. The allergic reaction, however, will almost always be permanent.


SNIP
Hazards Identification

Label Precautionary Statements: Irritant. Irritating to eyes, skin and respiratory system. Danger. Bonds skin and eyes in seconds.

Symptoms of Exposure: Vapor highly irritating to eyes and breathing. Prolonged exposure may lead to non-allergenic asthma

RE: CA Warning
 

I've switched to mostly using Tightbond II and Epoxy.. I only use CA when I need a quick hold or to tack something while the Tightbond sets.
If you don't swamp the joints with the wood glue it sets quite quickly.

RE: CA Warning
 

i'm using titebond 3 when i can, and CA only when i must use CA.

RE: CA Warning
 

Here is a link from Robart's web site. It's a PDF of the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for the CA products they distribute.

http://www.robart.com/ZAP%20Glue/PT01.pdf

RE: CA Warning
 

I have noticed that the far more expensive odorless CA is advertised as useful for those that have developed an allergic reaction to regular CA. Interesting that they will take the time to be concerned for your health when money is involved (:-).

In any case, has anyone personally confirmed that the odorless works (with respect to their allergic reaction)? I'd very much like to have a small amount available for those times that cry out for thin CA.

RE: CA Warning
 

From what I understand, the odorless is still harmful to your health. You just don't have fumes to tell you when there is too much in the air. I would check the MSDS for odorless before I trust it any more than regular CA.

BTW, I also use wood glue when I can to avoid the fumes from both CA and epoxy. Neither one is good for you and the time saved is not really that important compared to long term health effects. Besides, the wood glues let you savor the building experience for longer.:D

Mark

RE: CA Warning
 

You need the correct MSDS for the particular brand/type you're using. In my research, CA is relatively safe if proper precautions are taken. Obviously, if someone has an allergic reaaction to the stuff, simply stop using it.

Dr.1

RE: CA Warning
 

Epoxy is not nice either, it depends a bit on the type I guess but if you read the health instructions you wouldn't want to use that stuff either. Skin contact should be avoided (it goes through gloves) and inhaling dust from sanding should be avoided also. Allergies will develop and then one becomes hyper sensitive to the stuff...

Traditional wood glue and slow build progress is all part of the hobby (gives you time to think about the design too), why does everything have to be fast these days?

RE: CA Warning
 

The most effective way to use this stuff is to put a small fan on your workbeanch that will keep the fumes from building up over the work area and keep you from getting a snout full of the fumes. Any of this stuff is bad for you in large amounts, heck 6 cheeseburgers a day will kill you if you eat them long enough. Obviously, as stated, if you develop an allergy to these products you need to find something else, either an aliphatic resin or maybe a polyurethane glue such as Gorilla glue. I don't thin they can make these glues much "safer" than they already are, the chemicals used in them are pretty strong and reactive, thus the properties that make them an effective adhesive. You just have to limit yourself to the effects of long term exposure.
Tommy

RE: CA Warning
 

Well in spite of the problems I now have with CA there are times it would be great to be able to use the thin stuff. Your fingers have a dexterity that can't be matched when handling some small or hard to reach parts.

I do agree though that it's really no problem building without benefit of thin CA as long as you plan ahead.

I am sure I created my sensitivity to the CA because I was careless in its use. However if the education had been there, either by the LHS or at the internet sites I might well of had the common sense to be more cautious. This is why I feel the adhesive should have a description of the possible (probable) problems that can develop unless you take extra precautions. A lot more caution on my part would most likely have headed off the allergy.

On the other hand, since I've never been allergic to anything that I know of, including poison oak, I may have been every bit as careless thinking "yes, yes, but it won't happen to me" (:-)

RE: CA Warning
 

Anyone think that a Delta or Jet Air Filter system would help?
http://www.amazon.com/Delta-AP100-Sh.../dp/B0000EI96M

I know the wood workers like em.

I don't have any issues with CA fumes.. I'd like it to stay that way.

Running my 3hp Dust collector would be a bit overkill for fumes but I was thinking of making a down draft sanding table that I could hook up to it.
It would eliminate fumes and dust but may also suck up small parts..

RE: CA Warning
 

I have doubts this is the system you need for CA but I haven't seen it up close and personal.

Basically I suspect that all you truly need is to use the precautionary methods mentioned by others,,, a good strong fan drawing air away from the work area and out a window. Of course this time of year can make that a problem since the fresh air you'll be drawing into your shop will be ice cold.

[Also, don't forget that the chemicals can also get into your system thru the skin.] I used the debonder many times yet I have never checked on its toxicity. Has anyone else?

RE: CA Warning
 

Don,
I raised this panic in the past about the CA.
One of my conclusions was that: im more sensitive to slower curing CA’s.
The slower it cures the more sensitive I’m.
Not to use it at all you cant in case of CA hinges, but you can avoid it and use aliphatic glues, they are as strong as CA, we run experiments at the end.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_65...tm.htm#6595250

allergy to CA is not gonna make the hobby easier.

RE: CA Warning
 

allergy to CA is not gonna make the hobby easier.

And neither is misinformation about the dengers of it, either. Everyone should be CORRECTLY informed.

Dr.1

RE: CA Warning
 

allergy to CA is not gonna make the hobby easier.

And neither is misinformation about the dengers of it, either. Everyone should be CORRECTLY informed.

Dr.1


I'm not recommending anyone stop using CA as long as they are VERY careful. I personally loved the benefits of CA adhesive. I also took the time to get the proper info sheet for the Great Planes CA before starting this thread. I did so in the hopes of not misleading the readers.

My whole point in starting (or restarting) this thread on the dangers posed is that new users are rarely informed about the potential for developing breathing problems. I only say "rarely" because I have no way of knowing if all suppliers fail to include warnings. I know for sure that my LHS and Tower Hobbies do not consider it worth mentioning.

In my case I was encouraged to use the "new" glue and at no point was there ever an alarm raised. I found that out the hard way.

I don't want to irritate anybody,,, just inform them.

Regards

RE: CA Warning
 

If you don't use CA, how do you edge-glue sheet balsa as in stabilizer or fin assembly? Do you just apply Titebond to the edge, press the parts together, and weight it down?

RE: CA Warning
 

I'm not irritated nor did I suggest you, Don, misinformed anyone. But there's been a LOT of Henny-Pennying of CA from others who didn't have ALL the facts. In another thread, I posted a couple of links and complete MSDS sheets on our glues. A "safety Sheet" is NOT the true complete story of any checmical or compound, only the MSDS is. I know from where I talk, my wife is an EH&S Manager for a large chemical company.

CA is not even on the DHEC Haz Mat list.

All that being said, certain precautions SHOULD be used when using CA. Proper ventilation and skin protection is necessary, and a respirator should be worn by those who may be allergic. The fumes can certainly be an irritant.

Now, if you want another scare, look up "Zip Kicker" and Monokote Trim Solvent. That can be some nasty stuff.

Dr.1

RE: CA Warning
 

Monokote Trim Solvent is nasty stuff???? [&:]

i didnt know that, i kinda liked its function...[&:]

i was using it from time to time.

"Poison should be consumed in small dozes, you cannot use it all at once..."

RE: CA Warning
 

Fishin: Even if I weren't allergic to CA I'd prefer Titebond III for gluing sheets together. I make sure the edge is a good fit, lay masking tape down on one side, fold the two pieces away from one another, add Titebond (or similar), lay back down on a flat surface and weigh it down or pin it. Don't forget to clean as much of the glue off the surface as possible.

Go get a cup of coffee and tinkle. (:-)

I find that the glue has stuck fairly well by the time I return (but I'm not suggesting to unpin it yet). I prefer this type of glue because it sands so well as opposed to the hard joint typically left by CA.

RE: CA Warning
 

I'm not irritated nor did I suggest you, Don, misinformed anyone. But there's been a LOT of Henny-Pennying of CA from others who didn't have ALL the facts. In another thread, I posted a couple of links and complete MSDS sheets on our glues. A "safety Sheet" is NOT the true complete story of any checmical or compound, only the MSDS is. I know from where I talk, my wife is an EH&S Manager for a large chemical company.

CA is not even on the DHEC Haz Mat list.

All that being said, certain precautions SHOULD be used when using CA. Proper ventilation and skin protection is necessary, and a respirator should be worn by those who may be allergic. The fumes can certainly be an irritant.

Now, if you want another scare, look up "Zip Kicker" and Monokote Trim Solvent. That can be some nasty stuff.

Dr.1


Okay DR,, No problem here.

I do dearly love the hobby (started RC in early 60s, rubber band before that) and don't know why it took so long to return. I guess it was family pressures while younger. I started my layover in the mid 80s then returned about a year and half back. I guess the use of CA really took hold while I was gone from the hobby because I don't recall any of my acquaintances ever mentioning it.

I just wish that suppliers would attempt to "scare" us a little more (:-).

RE: CA Warning
 

Thanks, Don41, that's what I was looking for. As a newbie I'm never sure of anything. Except that for us old guys, by the time we finish the "tinkle" part almost any glue would have cured completely;).

Frank

RE: CA Warning
 

I just wish that suppliers would attempt to "scare" us a little more (:-).
Yea. An MSDS is available for most chemicals and compounds, but you usually gotta ask for them or do an Internet search. FYI, if it's NOT listed as a Haz Mat, I don't think they have to provide an MSDS, but some companies do, anyway.

Monokote Trim Solvent is nasty stuff????
I forget what the base solvent is, but it can be hazardous. Use adequate ventilation when the bottle is open.

Dr.1

RE: CA Warning
 

Thanks, Don41, that's what I was looking for. As a newbie I'm never sure of anything. Except that for us old guys, by the time we finish the "tinkle" part almost any glue would have cured completely.

Frank

Chuckle,,, I hear you Frank. There's danger of falling asleep during the tinkle process (:-).



DR1: I bought a bottle of the solvent on recommendation of the LHS but it never got opened (I'm glad I didn't now). These informative forums pointed out that adding Monokote trim with Windex and a small amount of heat would work. I used that method on my Senior Telemaster and so far it is holding very well.

On the Elder40 I'm presently building I used the self adhesive type of Monokote applied directly to the balsa (for the various trim sections). I'll soon find out if that works out.

My next plane (1/4 scale Spacewalker) will be in Sig Koverall. I think I'll skip the heat sensitive glue you paint on and go with clear dope to hold it in place.

(Time for a new thread,, I'm drifting off my own subject)

RE: CA Warning
 

go with clear dope

Be careful with that stuff, too. It can kill liver and brain cells. I used it too much as a boy building control line planes. [sm=bananahead.gif]

Dr.1

RE: CA Warning
 

From Bob Smith Industries website:

Safe Use of Adhesives

Before using any adhesive, adequate ventilation of your work area needs to be addressed. A window or door should be open and/or a small fan placed to circulate the air over your workbench. When using CA, especially super-thin INSTA-CURE, always loosen the top and then retighten it before carefully cutting off the end of the nozzle. This relieves any pressure that may have built-up inside the bottle that could cause the CA to spurt out. This is definitely an issue when CA is used at higher altitudes. Never have the bottle pointing close to your face while opening it.

The fumes produced by CA are an evaporated form of the CA itself. Develop a habit of never having your face above the objects that you are bonding together. Always keep them well in front of you. The fumes that rise during the curing process, while not toxic, can be very irritating to the eyes and nose. Repeated heavy exposure can cause some people to become sensitized to the fumes. For these people, any exposure to CA fumes can result in cold or flu-type symptoms. If you find yourself falling into this category there are two options. First, you can switch to another adhesive such as BSI's odorless SUPER-GOLD. Second, you can use protective gear such as a respirator. 3-M makes a dual-cartridge paint spray mask (R-6211) with #6001 Organic Vapor Cartridges that works very well in preventing adverse reactions to CA. 3M 5010 pre-filters can be attached for additional protection.

Cyanoacrylates do not have an adverse effect on body tissue. The heat that is generated when CA comes in contact with human skin can result in some burning, however. Do not wipe-off CA that gets on your hands with a dry paper towel! Most paper towels seem to have just the right chemistry to instantly set off CA with a resultant burst of heat. While not dangerous, this can be very uncomfortable. The primary difference in CA's developed for medical use is the very low heat that is produced when they cure.

Surgical gloves for your hands are recommended when using slower curing epoxies. This is a matter of both convenience and safety. It is a rule that you will have some epoxy on your hands when the phone rings or you need to open a door. It is a nice feeling to know you can just peel off a glove and have a clean hand. While protective creams safeguard your skin, they still can result in epoxy coated doorknobs. Hand protection is much less an issue with faster curing epoxies such as BSI's QUIK-CURE since they are thicker and are less likely to run and they remain sticky and gooey for a much shorter period of time.