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Trashed my new motor after break in!!

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Trashed my new motor after break in!!

Old 01-06-2008, 10:04 PM
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Reb2973
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Default Trashed my new motor after break in!!

Well i finally got a chance to put the new Novarossi N21B in my hyper 7 and break it in. I figured I would try the heat cycle method and followed this one..

http://www.johnnycoolguy.com/JCGR/ma..._break-in.html

Well i followed it exactly and even ran 3 tanks around the yard kinda rich and not being to hard on it..Went to start tunning it in for performance and it just died on me in a speed pass. went to fire it back up and the starter box wouldnt turn it over[:@] I pulled the plug and had metal chips on it. I took the engine apart and looks like the con rod started to crack and one side of the piston came apart inside the engine block.

I cant beleive the luck Im having with motors in my buggy..Was this not a good break in procedure for this motor? Looks like a new piston/sleeve and con rod is around $100.00 . What a waste.. I just cant figure out if it was something I did or this method I followed just sucks,or perhaps just some more bad luck ..Heres some pics.
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:07 PM
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Dokioto
 
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

That looks nasty[:'(] I have been doing the five tank method (start slow then increase), with no problems.
Old 01-06-2008, 10:15 PM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

I pretty much heat cycle my engines but do preheat my engines with a heat gun before starting. I get at least 7 to 9 gallons or more out of my engines but I do run more fuel though my engines then what that article says before I tune for performance. All depends on what the pinch fills like before I do tune for performance. My STS engines have such a tight pinch some times it take a gallon or better.
Old 01-06-2008, 10:23 PM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

That stinks man. Did it come with break in instructions?
Old 01-06-2008, 10:26 PM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

yeah I used a heat gun every time I fired it up,,put some ARO down in the sleeve before the first start..I wonder if it could be froom me stopping the motor with the tip of my shoe on the flywheel with a new engine? Heck i dont know. Im going to dig through the papers that came in the box with the mill, maybe I can get a new one but I doubt it.

Im just worried if its something I could of did wrong and that I might do it again after I repair it.
Old 01-06-2008, 10:28 PM
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Reb2973
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!


ORIGINAL: TR762

That stinks man. Did it come with break in instructions?
It had some kind of break in procedure but it didnt make much sense, its like kinda half english and half Italian mixed together on all the papers it came with.
Old 01-06-2008, 10:53 PM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!


ORIGINAL: Reb2973

yeah I used a heat gun every time I fired it up,,put some ARO down in the sleeve before the first start..I wonder if it could be froom me stopping the motor with the tip of my shoe on the flywheel with a new engine? Heck i dont know. Im going to dig through the papers that came in the box with the mill, maybe I can get a new one but I doubt it.

Im just worried if its something I could of did wrong and that I might do it again after I repair it.
Stopping the motor by the flywheel is the best way to stop a nitro engine, so that's not your issue.

During break in, did you touch the needles at all or leave it as it came out of the box?

What kind of temps were you seeing during heat cycling? If you are going to continue in this hobby, you will need a temp gun for sure.

Did you use a starter box? pull starter?

Did you put the engine at BDC while it cooled down?

That is a pretty catastrophic failure there. You might be able to get a replacement via warranty if you can talk a good story to Novarossi. I am not convinced it is your fault (yet).

I do have a suspicion, and that is that you may have hydro-locked the engine (too much unburnt fuel in the combustion chamber), and when you tried to start it with a starter box it trashed the conrod. I could see that happening with a starter box more then a pull starter, but it could happen with a pull starter too.
Old 01-06-2008, 10:57 PM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

I am also wondering if excess heat was a factor. Even if you were taking it easy, if you were running in grass it may have gotten too hot. What surface were you running on? What kind of shape is the clutch in and what type of clutch? Would the buggy roll freely when the transmitter was in neutral or is it possible the brakes were dragging?

If you look at the piston in one of the shots, it almost looks scorched... Wonder if it got too hot and warped?
Old 01-06-2008, 11:19 PM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

I only touched the hsn to get it to run without bogging down, I used my driveway(concrete) during the heat cycle, kept an eye on the temps,, all around 220 everytime. Had to put a sock over the head to bring up the temps so I didnt have to lean it out. I put the piston at BDC after every shut down.

After the heat cycle , I took it out to the yard(grass ) to run a few more tanks and being easy on it, temps around 240-250. When I strted to tune for performance I made a few speed passes and it just stalled in the middle of a high speed pass, I brought it over to the starter box and tried to start it but it wouldnt even turn the motor over, thats when I looked at my mark I put on the flywheel for BDC and knew something was wrong when I couldnt move the flywheel with my finger. It locked up at BDC. When it stalled on the high speed pass i went to roll the flywheel over to BDC but noticed it shut down right on my mark I put on the flywheel, so didnt even bother with it.

Brakes were not dragging , clutch is stock and in good shape.
Old 01-07-2008, 08:57 AM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

Well then I think you have a manufacturers defect. Let us know how the return goes. I think you have a good case on your hands to get a replacement.
Old 01-07-2008, 09:20 AM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

i use the eps to restrict the carb from opening past 1/2 way until at least a 1/2 gallon. i've blown two rtr engines like that with the heat cycle and you get too antsy sometimes with the high speed passes. we see the car fly by and we're like woah yeah, then clink. engine stuck and aluminum chinks inside. i actually ran one of my blownups with half the skirt missing on the piston and just a new conrod, lasted another couple gallons like that. i've done the drake method on my last two engines and since its done on the box, its hard for me to kill it. good luck with the rebuild, hope nothing else failed also.
Old 01-07-2008, 09:34 AM
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stz28
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

Sorry about your engine. Either you really leaned it out or it was defective. Hopefully the manufacturer will work with you.

Most of my engines are OS, who has great customer service. Would be interested to know about your experiences with Novarossi.....please, keep us posted.

Thanks.
Old 01-07-2008, 09:50 AM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

Yeah I will see what they will do for me, I know I couldnt of leaned it out to much since it was still pouring the smoke out,it sounded like I was getting close to having the hsn set but never even got to the lsn.

One other thing is that it came with the brand new nova rossi 9901 tuned pipe, didnt seem like the right match for it . I wonder if that had something do do with it. I will keep you posted on what they say.
Old 01-07-2008, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

Complete vindication for seting the LSN first, now let's discuss.
Old 01-07-2008, 10:09 AM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!


ORIGINAL: Da Smak

Complete vindication for seting the LSN first, now let's discuss.
I do think that people overlook the LSN. You can still be super lean and cause damage off idle.

However, it doesn't sound like Reb even touched the LSN, so it should have been fat from the factory and not an issue. Plus, he was monitoring his temps and they were good. A lean LSN will still cause high temps and even cause the engine to cut out when the throttle is opened up. He didn't mention this so I am not sure if that is a factor.

Reb, did you open the engine up before you ran it? I always open up new engines, reseal and rebuild them before running them- the popular magazines and sources recommend it too. Sometimes process materials are left in the engine during manufacturing that can cause premature engine destruction.

Old 01-07-2008, 10:16 AM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

Blah blah blah... See below.
Old 01-07-2008, 10:46 AM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

I took the back plate off and took a peak inside. Didnt see any trash before I started it up. I didnt mess with the lsn since it would idle nice from the first start, it was a little rich but not enough to mess with it yet, in fact it never stalled on me the entire time. I always tuned the hsn then went to the lsn to get the nice acceleration from take off. I wasnt even spinning the wheels on take off, I was just going easy and smooth into a full throttle. It was clearing out nice and sounding good, then just died and rolled to a stop.

Im trying to explain all I did, so I will listen if anyone thinks its something I did. I boke in my trx2.5r and 0s .18tm and they still run strong. But this is the first time I tried a heat cycle. I followed it exactly as it stated.

Not sure what you mean by I sheared the crank pin off. Everything was still connected, just the whole side of that piston came apart inside the block. Con rod still connected at both ends,but it has a tiny crack in it.
Old 01-07-2008, 11:18 AM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!


ORIGINAL: Reb2973


Not sure what you mean by I sheared the crank pin off. Everything was still connected, just the whole side of that piston came apart inside the block. Con rod still connected at both ends,but it has a tiny crack in it.
neither do I now, looking at the pictures blown up you've just gat a dodgy piston, thing is that that will need a new piton and liner and a lot of cleaningout, definately a dodgy piston and a waranty should be honored for that. Forget my above post, I was talking to someone on MSN and wrote in the wrong box.
Old 01-07-2008, 11:31 AM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

Hey guys, i don't know about that break-in routine. It scares me. And is talking about OS engines. MY break-in procedure is doing 1.5 tank with the wheels off the ground with factory settings (rich). Then, i put the car down and start making circles with half throttle and waste 5-6 tanks. Then, i start to turn over the HSN untill its temp is good and the power enough. Thats all, what have you to tell? I'm very worried about that break-in procedure i just read [&o]
Old 01-07-2008, 11:51 AM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

the thing with most novarossi engines is they come from the factory with a rich LSN and a high iddle setting wich can give you the impression that you're LSN is set properly because it isn't cutting out and the HSN is extremely rich, but this isn't the case people tend to over compensate for the rich lsn by leanning out the Hsn and unless you do really long straight line runs you will not notice that the hsn is way too lean.
My trick is to set the iddle as low as possible before tunning the hsn that way, you're sure that you're lsn is set properly.
sorry bout the engine, it still seems odd that it would break after such a short period...
Contact Novarossi and tell them you followed the manuals break in procedure they may try to skip out on you if you admit that you used the heat cycling method.
Old 01-07-2008, 11:54 AM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

Here's what strikes me: During break-in a sock over the head was required to get it up to temp. Then, during an initial attempt to tune for performance, the temps shoot way up. I am assuming without the sock.

What was the glow plug like after the failure? From the looks of the engine, I'd say the coil from the plug broke and dropped and the piston hit it on the downstroke while it was stuck in one of the ports. I'm guessing you may developed an air leak at some point directly after the break in, which caused a lean condition and in turn caused the plug to fail. If the coil is missing from the plug anyway.

Definately could be a manufacturer defect too though.

I would reccomend to anyone to tune the HSN first. The HSN can, as has been mentioned, also affect the LSN. So if you set the LSN first, you could change the idle air/fuel mixture by adjusting the HSN afterwards. Its entirely possible to have too lean or too rich an LSN by adjusting the HSN.
Old 01-07-2008, 12:16 PM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

I used the sock to get the temps to 200, its kinda hard to hit that in 3 minutes before the shut down. While tunning for performance I started after half tank and temps were around 240- 250.

I emailed novarossi and told them it happened during break in, didnt specify how I broke it in. hope they will do something for me.
Old 01-07-2008, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!


ORIGINAL: RCtruckRacer

The HSN can, as has been mentioned, also affect the LSN. So if you set the LSN first, you could change the idle air/fuel mixture by adjusting the HSN afterwards. Its entirely possible to have too lean or too rich an LSN by adjusting the HSN.
OMG!!! A mod sees what I have said for years, is this a break-through? Could there possibly be a typo in there?


No matter what you think though we still disagree on one thing from his post...

ORIGINAL: RCtruckRacer

I would reccomend to anyone to tune the HSN first.
Well I would advise people to lean the LSN first and bring the Idle down to resonable levels first so that the rod is not as stressed on the down stroke, as the excess fuel in the chamber will not compress and that is when the rod get extended (stretched) and why some manufacturers advise you to replace the rod after break in. If you lean the LSN first then the stretching is less likely and the rod does NOT need replacing.

Old 01-07-2008, 01:24 PM
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johntammi
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!

What's the backplate look like? Scarred at all or chunks missing?
Old 01-07-2008, 02:03 PM
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Default RE: Trashed my new motor after break in!!


ORIGINAL: Reb2973
I took the back plate off and took a peak inside.

Was the piston at the top when you removed the back plate?


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