RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

You might want to do some research before making statements like this. The world record in speed for an RC boat of any kind at over 140mph is held by an electric boat.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

chickenfart, your name suits you.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

Lets put it this way :). The ONLY thing that limits a brushless motor is heat and voltage (you can still pump as much voltage you want into it but you can't exceed what the motor/esc is made to handle). With a nitro engine you can only go as fast as the torque/power curve lets you which limits your RPMs. You can only get so many RPMs out of these nitro engines so the only way to go faster is get something with more torque to pull a higher gear ratio to get the speed. When you do that you need a bigger engine making the vehicle heavier which will ruin the handling of it on a track so its now good for nothing but drag racing. Where the fuel engine reachs its limits a brushless motor can still out perform it. A brushless motor has no RPM limit because there are no power curves so the only thing limiting your RPM is again heat and voltage. Of course you can only feed so much voltage into the motor/esc before it overheats but with the right setup it still outperforms any nitro engine you can buy for this scale. Brushless systems are still improving so if you do happen to find a nitro setup to beat an electric than chances are it wont be faster for to much longer.

I don't have an electric 1/8 buggy because I do like my nitro equally as much as my electric on-road car/off-road buggy. Still a high end electric will out perform any high end nitro engine you can buy because they don't have as many limitations. That goes for speed and run time on a charge.

Russo dust does not effect ESCs in any way, shape, or form. The only way to mess up an ESC is to short it out with something conductive (like water), to block cooling to the heat sink making it overheat, or to put more power into it then its made to handle. The brushless motors are also SEALED so no dirt will get in them causing a failure.

Don't get me wrong I love my nitro stuff and it is cheaper to get a high performance setup in nitro. Still electric overall does outperform nitro in 1/8 and 1/10 scale but you need to pay quite a bit to get there. After you buy everything once your set for quite a long time so its only a big initial cost.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

AANGLET- If you want to take out the Jato maybe I can mail you my converted Jato. Nothing has ever touched that truck except for my GTRe 1/8 that goes airborne at about 105.

CHICKENFART- Yep I had a .90 TT truck. After the 3rd rebuild I converted it to brushless then sold it about 6 months later (to fund my high speed car). Never had to do a thing to it after that conversion. No tuneing or anything. Just drop and run it was great fun. The way I see it the nitros are now the toys doing the catchup. But the problem is they are at the summit of their developement and brushless is in its beginning stages. Brushless is only going to get bigger and stronger. All the crying I hear from the nitro guys is like the person drowining going down for the last time.

I still love them all. All of it is great fun.

BTW The trash talk is tung in cheek.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

Alright, I'm gonna start doing some more reading to understand amps, volts, MaH or mAh? What would I need for a conversion on hyper 7?
Motor mount, Aluminum right or do I have to make that?
Motor, what size is good to EQUAL a descent 21 engine?
Battery, I'm guessing lipo is the way to go, what volts? 7.2, 8.4, 11.1? What mah is good 2000 or 6000, I"m guessing 6000
ESC, that can handle the correct amount of volts and amps and matches this size motor?
Charger and Balancer? Never heard of that but sounds necessary, thats pretty much all I have learned so far

Does the esc plug into the receiver or is it the receiver, on my daughters mini t its combined, what special equipment or tools are needed to maintain batteries and brushless motors?

Any comments are greatly appreciated. I think I am starting to understand, a bit.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

Glad to hear that you are willing to at least learn. A Hyper7 is a good base car to use. Inexpensive and readably available parts. The parts list is like this: brushless esc, brushless motor, motor mount, battery, battery holder, pinion gear, 12ga or 10ga wire, Schulze connectors 6mm. The real important thing is patience and a little bit of OCD helps for the details.
Motor mount will be aluminum. Yes you have to make them. But if you look around you can find a couple that are made once in a while on ebay. But generally you will have to make it. It is not that bad.
A descent .21 has a max hp of around 2.1 to 2.3 hp. That translates to about 1700 watts power (750 watts = 1 hp). Now here starts the learning curve. An electric motor will develop full torque (watts power) from less than 60 rpm up and 90% of torque from around 3 rpm. So your power is instant for all intensive purposes. Here to be fair you can use less electric motor and get the same effective performance of the nitro counterpart. Basically if you get a motor that will develop 1200 watts or more continuous you will have more power on demand and that power will develop sooner in the throttle sequence. Any New 15xx series motor will be more than enough as would any of the larger Plettenberg motors. The Nemisis / Feiago motors are descient and the Lehner motors are better than them. The Neu and Plettenbergs are the best there is, nothing is better or even really close to them. You can see all the mentioned motors here ( http://www.rc-monster.com/brushlessmotors.php ) except for the Plettenberg. For those go here ( http://www.icare-rc.com/plettenberg_cars.htm )
Lipo batteries are not like nixx you are used to. Their voltage ratings are nominal ratings and will retain 90% of that voltage through their full dissipation of their capisity. So a 4000mAh battery will maintain at least 3.5 volts per cell down to and through the usable mah of 4000 mAh. You do not get the roll off like nixx batteries. Lipo are 3.7 volts per cell, so 2 cell lipo is 7.4 volts, a 3 cell is 11.1 and so on. The mAh of your pack will need to be determined by the load you intend on putting on the battery. With lipo the current availability is relative(to a degree) to its capisity in mAh. So most packs out today are like this>: 5000 mAh pack 7.4 volts 20C. The 20C tells you the drain rate relitave to the mah. A 20C battery with 5000 mAh of capisity will deliver 100 amps of power continuous through its storage amount of 5000 mAh. You will need a battery that can handle 100 amps continuous drain. Max Amps is the place to go for the best bang for the buck by far. I use their 10,000 mah packs all the time. They are good for 200 amps and run for over an hour in my 1/8 buggies.
I am testing a new Cell Pro charger that dose 6 cell lipo and so far it has been the best charger I have used. For 140 bucks it dose it all and has a built in balancer and full PC compatability. But there are great chargers from Hyperion, Thunder Power, Xtreem, Duratrax ICE, and others.
The esc's are separate. There are no special tools needed. It is almost like Ron Popell on tv, you just hook it up and forget it, for the most part. Just have a good charger for the batteries and the motor will do what it needs to do. Sometimes cooling fans are needed but that will be determined later.
Hope this helps. Have fun.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

Wow that helps a lot, now I have some idea what to look for so it all matches up. I'll try some small electric experiments on my daughters mini t which has been a definite learning experience so far. Once you understand electric its not really that tough. Here are some advantages I can think of off hand, much less long term cost, more power, no plugs, no fuel spillage, less dirt, more driving, more suspension adjustment learning, NO tuning, did I mention less dirt?, more fun, hopefully less frustration. Here are some disadvantages I can think of, higher upfront cost, no more delicious nitro fumes - actually I still have my truggy - , more tires, more diff fluid changes, more broken parts. But those last three are ok cause that means more driving! Thanks for all the info so far, I hope others see this thread and learn more from it, maybe 1/8 scale e-racing isn't that far off after all. Wait till the Ryan's or the Drake get a hold of some of these. Awesome.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

Can someone list the most popular or easiest 1/8th scale cars to convert to electric? Also, is there a good online guide or picture story of how this is done? I would assume the most important component is the motor mount. This is where I am going to need the most help.

Thanks!

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

I am going to start a "Electric 1/8 Buggy / Truggy : The science" thread now so others with ideas and curiosity. So look for it now I am doing it after this.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

That would be great, RURC you're right across the bridge from me.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

Check out this thread at RC Tech:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=158327
The thread starter makes kits for different buggies. He has an 8ight kit, a Hyper 7 kit and a MBX5 kit so far. They use existing hole - no extra drilling. Very smart and easy. I'll post this in the "science thread."

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

I think that nitro has alot more to offer. I think that nitro manufacturers are on a race to see who is best at this and that. But eletric i think that eletric can also have more to offer. But on my thought i think that nitro is much more likely find a way to beat eletric and be faster overall. Im not agienst eletric or anything i do own eletric model's but i just get fed up with them. I get fed up with them because they arent very fun if you dont know alot about them. But with nitro i think its alot more easyer to learn about them and then learn how to do very fun things with them.
Thanks for letting me post my thoughts
Ryan

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

If you don't know what you are doing, then neither nitro or electric is fun.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

I fly electric helis and used to race electric buggies years ago. Electric does have advantages but so does nitro! Electrics have great torque and handle well..........I would probably prefer to race them on someone elses dollar! BUT,,,,,,,,,,You can't forget that LIPO's are fire hazards, not reliable, VERY costly, and you can't run an electric when it's wet outside! Just over-charge, over-discharge, or puncture your expensive LIPO one time and you will be paying as much as I pay for 10 gallons of fuel! I like to take my nitro truck and run it on lunch breaks............couldn't do that with LIPOS because they would overheat in the sun-baked vehicle..........probably burst and burn my vehicle to the ground! I don't need an amo-box to keep my fuel in like my LIPOS for my heli!

Overall, electrics are great,,,,,,,for you! Personally, my well-being is more important than performance gains and I have never liked the idea of being BURNED! I'll stick with good old, tried and tested, non-explosive NITRO!

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

That's a bit paranoid. I raced my 1/8 buggy conversion yesterday in 97* heat. I ran a 15 minute A-main with my set of 6k LiPo. My batts have never temped higher than 115* after a long run. Proper charging and good installation are not difficult tasks. I've been running LiPo for 2 years now...I've saved a lot of money compared to nitro.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

Isurber-
Those things were true about 2 years ago. There has been tremendous advancements in lipo techsince then. I have been testing for manufacturers for 6 years and I do heat tests and short and overcharge tests it is getting harder and harder to do some of these things all the time. I take lipos and charge them then place tham in a sealed ammo box, made out of metal, and place them in the Florida sun for days now and nothing happens. I run chargers and try to get them to overcharge and many have just that good of programming that you have to really do some dumb stuff to get this to happen.

I will grant you that nothing beats a good steel rod shot through a lipo. It is just like the 4 of July. But that is why you build protective boxes. I dont know of anyone that is harder on lipos than myself and some of my chopper running friends. The difference is that with your craft every gram counts. So you buy very light cells that are very thin cased and very high output. On high end lipos for planes and choppers they do everything to lower the weight of their packs. This makes them more fragile than the not intended for flight packs. I have seen a difference in tests in the very light flight intended packs in tests. Now even these are tons better than a couple of years ago.

I have been lipo only for 7 years and I have seen a night and day diference in lipos now.

The fact is use your brain. Be careful. Protect your packs. I do have and sell charge boxes the double as storage and travel boxes. I figure if they are good enough for the military then they are goo fnough for me.

If it scares you then dont go here. But getting informatin out is important but you are being a little paranoid.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

I have a Mugen truggy with an EB Modded 3 horsepower engine, I also have a xxx-bk2 with a gbr novak and 7.5r brushless... they are almost identical in speed. I have the top of the line equipment in my truggy however I don't have the best in my bk2. Electric is faster than nitro BUT it is totally different my electric is like driving a kite my nitro is like driving a banshee quad. If your bank account permits I suggest both, I am very happy with both of my rc's, I also suggest finding a local groomed track to make rc driving FUN. I live in tacoma WA and am 5 minutes away from my track. I have never even driven my mugen anywhere but on the track.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

They look and sound great. Continue to have fun with them.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

the numbers say everything, the speed recored for just about every form of rc is set by brush less electric

onroad car-113 mph

boat 140 mph

plane in level flight 244 mph

the only limiting factor is really money, i have seen videos of on road rc's getting to 138, it is not an offciel recored though, and the limiting factor for planes is that there is a est weight to wing area ratio that must be stuck to, if wings could be smaller planes would go faster.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

:D

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

I was unaware that the 138 mph run was 'unoffical'. I was there and it did it. There was another run that same day by the same guy and he hit 160 but could not back it up due to a catrostrophic falure on the car. If that 113 is the offical tell me where to go and get an offical run because I can blow that away. I am just below Nicks 138 mph car now because I am having a hard time keeping the car on the ground at that speed.

RE: Whats faster Nitro or Electric?
 

Planes have been WAY past 244mph but none of them are electric actually. The turbines are hitting about 280 at the most and I'm pretty sure they limit them to that. The nitro ducted fans have hit 255 and I know that one for a fact. The brushless motors are deffinatly catching up in planes quick but the fuel is still faster if your willing to spend the money. Turbine jet is about $7,000 at the least and a nitro ducted fan is also about $2,000 (engine alone is $600+).