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Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

Old 12-30-2007, 02:53 PM
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D Bronk
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Default Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

Hey Guys ..I bought a Proboat Vortex for my 3 young Nephews`, Christmas Present ..I want to use it, with them in the Snow..It`s the First RTR anything, I`ve ever Bought,normally I scratch Build, or Kit Build (AirCraft)..Anyway the Boat comes with an in the Water Rudder,No Good for what we got Planned,and Liguid water is a long time aways..So I`m setting up a Behind the Prop/Fan Type Rudder..Is there a Rule of Thumb, for Rudder Size Shape/Weight /SQ.Inches ?.At this point, I`m going with the." Looks about Right",style of engineering..LOL

..Heres a few pics of the Hull ,and the Lay of the Boat on a flat surface..I`m asking about this Rudder cause.I have 0 experiance with R/C Airboats..If nobody can tell me ..That`s ok..I`ll start with a big Rudder, and Shave it Down if necessary..Would just prefer to get it BallPark Decent, on the first Shot..
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Old 12-30-2007, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

Well i would round out the bottom where it almost touchs the main frame about 1" from bottom edge and 1" up in a gentle swoop. Next i would make the back of rudder the same distance from swivel both ways. Next i would cut top down and the top front edge, i would round out like you did bottom after initial top off. I imagine you have it centered and rudder as is looks to be 13" high and 9" wide, just guessing. The main force of air from prop will hit just inside the swivel so turning distance won't need to be great. I just revamped my airboat from single to dual rudders and took a 550 motor back out and went back to a 12/3 old P-94 05-540 with a 7 x 6 pusher prop. Mine is 9 3/4" wide and 18" long with a long rake and fun to run. Where i live, a noise ban i call it goes into play. If they ***** ( people around there ), that's the end for you. Ideal size for that size motor and horsepower. Let all know how you come out.
Old 12-30-2007, 05:08 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

All good suggestions, but unless it won't work at all right now, I would run it as is first so you can see how much and what kind of improvement you get with each mod.
Old 12-30-2007, 05:45 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

Well I should have put Dimensions .It`s a current work in Progress..Hoping to Run this Boat with The kids Tommorow..

.Jasper That`s exactly what I`m going to do ..Going with a Gut Feeling,Try it, and then Take it from that Point....I have to get the Engine Winterized sort of ,also....I`ve been Taking Pics as I go ..If anyones interested I`ll post the Step by Step .There`s a few other Small things that I`ve noticed, that Cost nothing(minimal) and can be easy improvements for this Boat..

..Well, back to working on that Fin again, for a while .I`ve Got to Bond some stuff together,and Fit things after that..
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:24 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

Hi I would say your rudder is the wrong size i have two on mine they are only 2" but about 10" high i have tried using one on my 1st air boat no good turning circle was huge with two it can turn on a dime

the way you have your rudder set up with cause the boat to flip over im sure someone on here will help you better than me but you want two rather than one
Old 12-30-2007, 07:42 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex


ORIGINAL: vamp131

Hi I would say your rudder is the wrong size i have two on mine they are only 2" but about 10" high i have tried using one on my 1st air boat no good turning circle was huge with two it can turn on a dime

the way you have your rudder set up with cause the boat to flip over im sure someone on here will help you better than me but you want two rather than one

..Hi..Same Boat? I actualy Started to make a Double Fin,But there`s no way I can finish that by tommorow..Boat Flipped.[X(]I hope your Wrong ,but probably Correct LOL..The main thing is, that the Boys get to use it a bit ..then I can Re-engineer again Later...
Old 12-30-2007, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

Owning a few of those "style" hulls , I know , your not gonna like what I am gonna say , but here goes ;

First , the rudder should be longer ( taller , if you choose to address it that way )
next , remove the fuel cell cover to allow for the higher/longer rudder .
And as was said above , two rudders , with about an inch toss , will do you MORE than enough .
if you ever flew a RC plane , think of how small the flaps are , and how much control , those little things have . Now , I know that this like comparing MacIntosh to granny Greens , but , all in all , they are both apples , same as here .
The single rudder , will work , just not as efficient as twins would .
but , ya know the old saying ...
"As long as you have FUN , thats ALL that matters ! "
Get some vids , if possible . ( EVERYONE loves vids - )
Old 12-30-2007, 09:49 PM
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D Bronk
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

LOL..Just stopped for a Coffee, and More Bad News,according to TERBObob I Guess.OH Well,This will be temporary Fix then.. Videos are Do-able..It has Been Lightly Snowing here all day....I`ve Got lots of Property for this Machine to Turn on,Good`Ol Uncle Dave,, lives in the Country Side.LOL...So, For the Kids, as long as they get to use it a Little Tommorrow, That`s all that Counts ,,,for the Time Being..You Know Blast`er out, down a Straight stretch,Lumber it around the Corner and Shoot it Back..I have a Feeling, This Boat is going to scare The Hell 0ut of them !!... A Few Flip/Roll overs in the Soft Snow Shouldn`t hurt it To Badly,and adds to the Excitment.. Should have a few good Laughs with it anyways ..
Old 12-30-2007, 10:14 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

Do NOT be surprised at how much abuse they can take ....
And like I said ... have fun ....
Thats what its all about .

Look at one of my vids from a while ago . Talk about some flips and crashes ? LOL

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ud254ZZo7rY

I show both regular speed and slooooooowwwww mo , so watch and enjoy .

And FTR - this boat is complete scratch built and made from door skin . The rudders have NO top mounts and are ONLY mounted at the bottom , so , as you can see , they ARE tough . ( actually , they are copied from a tail wing from one of my RC planes .[8D] )

One more thing .... if you want to get them a boat that is REALLY GREAT on water , get them an AQUACRAFT ( no longer made , BUT , can be bought new on EBAY at times )
heres a short vid of one of mine that goes pretty decent , and handles like a dream . Almost impossible to flip .
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GEzNTYonCBM

And here is one of my BIGGEST disappoinments [&o]
Running on ice , needless to say
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NjJY5T3lz4M
Old 12-30-2007, 11:29 PM
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D Bronk
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex


ORIGINAL: TERBObob

Do NOT be surprised at how much abuse they can take ....
And like I said ... have fun ....
Thats what its all about .

Look at one of my vids from a while ago . Talk about some flips and crashes ? LOL

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ud254ZZo7rY

I show both regular speed and slooooooowwwww mo , so watch and enjoy .

And FTR - this boat is complete scratch built and made from door skin . The rudders have NO top mounts and are ONLY mounted at the bottom , so , as you can see , they ARE tough . ( actually , they are copied from a tail wing from one of my RC planes .[8D] )

One more thing .... if you want to get them a boat that is REALLY GREAT on water , get them an AQUACRAFT ( no longer made , BUT , can be bought new on EBAY at times )
heres a short vid of one of mine that goes pretty decent , and handles like a dream . Almost impossible to flip .
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GEzNTYonCBM

And here is one of my BIGGEST disappoinments [&o]
Running on ice , needless to say
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NjJY5T3lz4M
Thanks for the Links..Coffee Time again..Waiting for a mix of Epoxy, and Micro Balloons to Cure(Fillets) Hoping to get this Fin covered tonight Before Bed Time.. But it`s perfect timing for a Vid..LOL
Old 12-30-2007, 11:52 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex


ORIGINAL: D Bronk

Hey Guys ..I bought a Proboat Vortex for my 3 young Nephews`, Christmas Present ..I want to use it, with them in the Snow..It`s the First RTR anything, I`ve ever Bought,normally I scratch Build, or Kit Build (AirCraft)..Anyway the Boat comes with an in the Water Rudder,No Good for what we got Planned,and Liguid water is a long time aways..So I`m setting up a Behind the Prop/Fan Type Rudder..Is there a Rule of Thumb, for Rudder Size Shape/Weight /SQ.Inches ?.At this point, I`m going with the." Looks about Right",style of engineering..LOL

..Heres a few pics of the Hull ,and the Lay of the Boat on a flat surface..I`m asking about this Rudder cause.I have 0 experiance with R/C Airboats..If nobody can tell me ..That`s ok..I`ll start with a big Rudder, and Shave it Down if necessary..Would just prefer to get it BallPark Decent, on the first Shot..
just for idea and comparison i have a vortex parts set -up in boogey board , with the rudder set-up, i'm having issue running in straight, boat tends to spin during high speed, planning to put bigger rudder...
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Old 12-31-2007, 12:17 AM
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D Bronk
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex


ORIGINAL: wave waker


ORIGINAL: D Bronk

Hey Guys ..I bought a Proboat Vortex for my 3 young Nephews`, Christmas Present ..I want to use it, with them in the Snow..It`s the First RTR anything, I`ve ever Bought,normally I scratch Build, or Kit Build (AirCraft)..Anyway the Boat comes with an in the Water Rudder,No Good for what we got Planned,and Liguid water is a long time aways..So I`m setting up a Behind the Prop/Fan Type Rudder..Is there a Rule of Thumb, for Rudder Size Shape/Weight /SQ.Inches ?.At this point, I`m going with the." Looks about Right",style of engineering..LOL

..Heres a few pics of the Hull ,and the Lay of the Boat on a flat surface..I`m asking about this Rudder cause.I have 0 experiance with R/C Airboats..If nobody can tell me ..That`s ok..I`ll start with a big Rudder, and Shave it Down if necessary..Would just prefer to get it BallPark Decent, on the first Shot..
just for idea and comparison i have a vortex parts set -up in boogey board , with the rudder set-up, i'm having issue running in straight, boat tends to spin during high speed, planning to put bigger rudder...

..There`s a Vortex in there Somewhere ?? LOL Maybe ProBoat will warranty that Steering Dilema for You..!! LOL..You Scavenged that Boat Big Time....How did you like the Factory Set-up, when it was New ?
..Is a Boogie Board the Same thing as a Knee Board? If it is ,a couple Strikers ,on the Back 1/4 th - 1/3Rd ,would help keep things running straight.

..Just watched the the Whizzer show.Dial-Up Yee Haw
Old 12-31-2007, 01:17 AM
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D Bronk
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

Excellent Vids.. Is this That AquaCraft

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=570

.That thing Looks like big-time Fun


..Going to cover the fin now, and Call it a day..I`ll post A pic ,once I`m finished..
Old 12-31-2007, 09:41 AM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

..Well, I got the Fin covered up, and mounted now,so, it can be Re-worked if needed..worse, comes to worse I`ll Screw more lite-ply to it to go Higher,Cut the Leading edge Back if the fin doesn`t want to go back to neutral..Whatever it takes,I`ll mess with it ,till I get something Decent happening for Steering control.At least I got a Decent Platform to start with for today..I think the Fin Needs a Splash of color,but, not at this point..

..Now I need to Get this Engine, Winterized,for its`,self induced Blizzard..I don`t want it sucking Snow..Lots of Fluff around, and a High Temp of -11`C..
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:32 AM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

Hi DBronk,
I have never had a problem with cold/snow for these little nitro's - You may want to run a couple tanks thru to break in the motor a little. Usually... the blizard is behind the boat.
If you should happen to suffer the high speed blowover -just blow the snow out of the carb and fire er up. I find that they run REALLY strong in the cold - down to about zero.
One of the things to keep in mind is your batteries will get weak a LOT quicker when its super cold.
Old 12-31-2007, 11:58 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

Well The Boys came over today ..They showed up @ 4:00, so really didn`t have much time to make Blizzards..made a short Vid, but can`t seem to get it To upload, to putfile.I`ll keep Trying..

..Winterized by SodaPop-can & air filter. Ran Real good considering,,I didn`t even adjust the Carb.Simply Started it ,and plopped it on the ground..I`ll tweak on it, Next Year..

Hopeing to get the Vid up yet
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Old 01-01-2008, 04:27 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex


ORIGINAL: D Bronk

Well The Boys came over today ..They showed up @ 4:00, so really didn`t have much time to make Blizzards..made a short Vid, but can`t seem to get it To upload, to putfile.I`ll keep Trying..

..Winterized by SodaPop-can & air filter. Ran Real good considering,,I didn`t even adjust the Carb.Simply Started it ,and plopped it on the ground..I`ll tweak on it, Next Year..

Hopeing to get the Vid up yet
...I finally got the Vid Uploaded.I gave up on putfile ,and used the RCU Vid Host..Vid Was taken by my oldest Nephew Riley (13)on my Digital Camera.I forgot to show him, how to use the Zoom Button,and light was getting poor..I editted in some Brightness on the Vid..Still not the Best but..Here it is..
.The last few seconds the OEM Radio seemed to have last control, and Was Headed Straight for my 3 ton truck..The Boat caught something and Flipped 3`ft from making a direct hit.It planted itself upside down with the nose pointing back from where it was travelling from.It was running at Full Throttle untill I took 20 paces towards the Boat .That was the distance where I seemed to Have Radio control again,and the Throttle finally went back to Idle..So Out goes that RADIO AND its` ELECTRONICS .I lost Faith in that system, and I`m going to put some Quality components in the Boat.

...The Boys didn`t get a chance to Try the Boat themselves yet ,but they understand that It needs some more work, and they will have they`re opportunity soon..They Do think Airboats are pretty cool,I hate to say it but that little tast of the Sport has got a bit of a grip on me too..LOL

..Here`s the link ,and I hope to have something Better, for Viewing Next time..

http://www.rcuvideos.com/item/BD5JH9...#theater_title
Old 01-01-2008, 05:21 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

How about a couple of skate boards , one under each sponson and just tie them on.
Old 01-01-2008, 07:01 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

What? LOL
ORIGINAL: retaobcr

How about a couple of skate boards , one under each sponson and just tie them on.
Maybe a lawnmower engine too!!!! lol
Old 01-01-2008, 07:24 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

what ?? You Guys Trying to get goofy? Start another Thread ,and I`ll contribute to that with a pair of Vortex`s.. I`ll strap 1, to each of my Feet ,synch them together on 1 Radio Transmitter,and Drive myself around..I`ll call them AirBoots...LOL..But if you want to keep on this type of topic,please, start a new thread..
Old 01-01-2008, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex


ORIGINAL: D Bronk
..Winterized by SodaPop-can
I have never seen this in my many years in the hobby. Can you explain why you shielded the head of the motor. Are you tring to keep heat in the head, if so have you use a temp gage before and after the shielding.
Old 01-02-2008, 12:27 AM
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D Bronk
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

Oh Boy, this can become Quite a (Heated)Topic in itself.I Rather this thread doesn`t go in that directoon.So,I`ll just give my Reasons for Doing ,what I did with the HeatShield /Deflector Thingy..

..The engine in the Vortex is an ABC design..The Manufacture claims that the engine doesn`t need a Break in period.Personally I disagree(another topic again)..ABC engines are Taper Bored,and Rely on the Taper for making Compression.Most manufactures require a Heat cycling Method for "Break in",With some amount of Time(minutes Depend on manufacturer) at a High rpm (usually Full throttle and Slightly Rich)..Naturally,that Gets the entire engine up to Operating Temp and piston and liner "Break in"as a Set.The engine is then allowed to Cool down,for a few minutes ,before the process is Repeated,for Several "Heat cycles".. With a engine like these if you try to Break them in at less then full operating temp. you can actually do damage.The faster an engine Reaches full operating temp.the Better the engine 'Break in" process is

..what I`m doing with the Heat on the Vortex` engine is trying to maintain a Equal Temp around the Cylinder and Head..Being Cold here,(The temp that I was running at the other Day Was -17'C )I`m simply protecting the The Front side of the Cylinder From the Prop Blast,and Occasional blast of Snow..Physics is pretty simple in this Case..I`m just playing with the Contraction,and Expansion of Metals..I`m just trying to keep a cosistent Temp all the Way around the Cylinder ..The Front of the Cylinder is Still cooling with my Shield,It is just Slowed down Because I`m not Allowing the Air to Flow through the cooling fins on the Front side of the Cylinder.The Backside of the Cylinder I do not have Shielded ,for the simple Reason that it is not in the direct Prop Blast like the Front Side is exposed too..I know it is impossible to see in the pictures,but I have the Shield Tightened up enough so that it makes contact to the Cylinders cooling Fins,and it does still draw heat out of the Cylinder that way,just that now,it is one solid Fin ,sort of..With out a cover of some type I`m looking for a Quickly ruined engine..Why ? Because the Engines Piston would expand fully due to combustion,and the Cylinder bore would Expand more at the rear of the Cylinder,than at the front of the Cylinder..Bottom line is I`m trying to prevent the round Cylinder Bore From becoming a sort of,Egg Shaped(on the Front side of cylinder) Cylinder Bore..

..A good example of what a cold Cylinder will do,is with Snowmobiles.The 2 stroke Liquid cooled Engines If not Correctly warmed up and are Ridden immediately at a high Rpm after being Started,will Cold Seize..This Happens due to the Piston Expansion is much faster than the Cylinder,due to piston seeing the Combustion Flame and the Cylinder being bathed in cold antifreeze..Results are not pretty,usually ending up with piston skirt melted onto the Cylinder Wall,due to excessive Friction and lack of piston /Cylinder Clearance..

asmithnc..No,I have not Gauged the Temp of the engine.I`m not concerned about the Actual operating temp..I`m mostly Trying to keep the Temperature equal,all the way around the Cylinder..I hope I have made Sense..I have a Digital contact Thermometer when I get a little more Run time on the engine and can let it Idle for an longer period I`ll Probe it all the way around the engine at High and Low rpms and make a short vid showing the Numbers and Results with,and without the Shield.I think that would be a Pretty interesting test/Experiment..You?




Old 01-02-2008, 09:56 AM
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

I like the shield / theory and think it makes sence.
Is the air filter off of a car or did it come with the Vortex?
Old 01-02-2008, 10:59 AM
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D Bronk
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex


ORIGINAL: dadkins

I like the shield / theory and think it makes sence.
Is the air filter off of a car or did it come with the Vortex?

.. Gd Morn.No that`s not a Vortex part,but, it is now LOL.. It is for one of my Aircraft engines..But I`m sure the Creative person could find other alternatives from ???

http://www.greathobbies.com/search/r...srchvendor=BRU

.. Some theory,aside from the obvious, involved there also.It keeps the Snow out of course,But normally when you run any engine in colder temperatures .The Fuel mixture needs to be Richened to match the Denser Air .The engine is pulling in More air,so you need to add more fuel to the mix, to have a correct fuel to air ratio..With these EVOlution engines the Needles are Factory Pre-set, and The adjustment Range is limited with Needle Stops on the Carburator..So By adding the Air filter, I sort of "Choked" the Air intake and have Artificially Enrichened the Fuel mix..Without enrichening the Fuel mixture The Engine would be running Lean,(Hot) and Melt Down of the piston, is not too far away..What you see in the Video, is the Carburator needle settings Exactly how the Factory set them in Box Stock form..I`m confident That there`s a lot more Power lurking in that engine.I`ll go in,and get it out after a couple of Tanks of Fuel..There hasn`t been more than 3 ounces of Fuel, through that Engine to this point..I`m real eager to see this Boat run at its Full potential.

..There really isn`t much for information about this Vortex boat here in RCU( or anywhere)..So that led me to start this Thread originally about the Air Rudder question.But, the More I look this Boat over the more, that I see that can easily be done to improve it..Honestly, I don`t know very much about Airboats,I`m quickly learning that they are a lot of fun,and maybe a great way to break-in and test new Engines.You don`t have to worry about Busting up that nice airplane because of an unproven engine..So anyways, Here I am learning just like the rest of the members..I do have a pretty good Grip on Engines, and their control systems..So I can improve this Boat in those areas, that, I do know about,, and anything else for problems,I`m going to rely on the other Members here to Help me out with ,for answers..

..So today, I`m going to go to the Local Hobby Shop (100 mile Round trip) for odds and ends for a New Airboat build, that I`ve been thinking about,and later today, I`ll start to Documenting my findings, and Fixes for the Vortex .46" Airboat..I`m going to do it in a way that the Average person or a New Airboat enthusiast can follow along.. Hopefully it will help the Next guy decide if this is a Boat that they would like to buy for themselves ,and What to look out for, or Change..

OK..Have a Good One.I know I will,going to one of my Favourite places,THE HOBBY SHOP.Dave



Old 01-02-2008, 11:09 AM
  #25  
retaobcr
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Default RE: Making a Blizzard, with a Vortex

retaobcr here. I watched the video of you out in the cold working your b*** off trying to make it work. Reason for used skate boards cause your sinking into the snow and drawing a lot of horsepower from motor. You don't have a total flat surface. If you could find a piece of ply that's thin and warp it enough so it curls up as not to catch snow but go over it.. I'm serious, cause your going out of your way to enjoy having fun with the kids. Skate boards isn't funny cause people on tv use snow boards for ramp jumping, no diff. The guy with a lawnmower engine can strap it to his back and put snow boards on his feet and b*** , but please --video--, worth the wait!

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