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Official Airboat classes!

Old 05-12-2008, 01:49 PM
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kzimmerman
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Default Official Airboat classes!

In another thread, a discussion arose as to offivial AMAA classes. Since none are defined, I thought that maybe we could start a thread here and get some classes defined. As a side note, I am not an official of the AMAA, nor am I even a member, it would just be nice to have a class that we could compare our boats in.

Glow is a no brainer. I see several classes, split into hydro and mono hulled boats.
1/2A, .10-.20, .21-.39, .40-.59, .60-.79, .80-1.0, unlimited.
gas would also have the mono, hydro split,
>26cc, 26-32cc, unlimited

Electric is the one that could cause the most problems. Two possibilities come to mind, the first being wattage, the second on the dimensions of the boat. Since I am a relative newcomer to the electric part of this hobby, I'll ask for some of our experts here to add some input. What would be a fair, easily determined value for airboat classes? Cell count, Brush/Brushless, weight, dimensions, and drag all play a major part in our boats performance, so what do we do?

Kurt
Old 05-12-2008, 01:53 PM
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kzimmerman
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

Hah! I'm an idiot! I just went to the other airboat page to post this, and discovered they already have classes for glow and gas, no need to reinvent the wheel! Just electric then!
Kurt
Old 05-12-2008, 03:11 PM
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Selph-Inflicted
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

kzimmerman,

Since I'm not an electric builder or have much electric experience, along with the wide varieties of electrics....if any who would like to add their input, I will gladly run it by the RCAA and get some classifications for the electrics. We have been talking about this for some time but have troubles coming up with classifications that are fair without having 200 classes for them.

Thanks for your interest!
Old 05-12-2008, 05:29 PM
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mr. ilikehelp
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

all i build is electics and i think it should be determined on moter size, brushed or brushless,hull type, and maybe water vs. air rudder
Old 05-12-2008, 05:33 PM
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

What about batteries? What would be a general idea on the classifications according to the batteries available?
Also, how many cells in each battery classification?

I want to thanks those who are willing to help. The RCAA has been seeing an interest into the electric airboats recently and the Board Of Directors knew that the time would come when we would have to set classifications for the electric guru's!

Thanks again for your contributions.
Old 05-12-2008, 05:54 PM
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

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Old 05-12-2008, 06:16 PM
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

[link=http://m-ab-a.com/index.html]The MABA[/link] basically is a organization that has hosted many rc airboat race/meets, with a lot of research on making the classes. Most would try to compare the RC Airboat class like it is in the RC boat classes, with the engine sizes close together. What we have found to work best is to have the classes for an example .25 nitro up to the .46 nitro. The main thing that separates the airboats is the size of the hull. Ex; racing a .46 nitro against lets say 27cc gasser, both boats have close to the same race speed (not top end speed) both handle the track close to the same. Where the problem comes in at is the smaller boat getting in the prop wash of the larger boat, resulting in the smaller boat being blown over. As this sport grows we will add in more classes, just so that we will have room for every one to race.
The electrics at the moment are not in a large number, so this makes it very hard as to how to class them. Also for many of the brushed motor airboats the track size would need to be smaller. Never the less the MABA does have a place for setting time and speed records for the electrics. As more electric rc airboats enter into the sport we will add more electric classes.
If you are interested in taking part of a organization for rc airboats and helping the sport to grow, look into the [link=http://m-ab-a.com/index.html]MABA[/link] It is the only organization for RC Airboats that is independent of itself. One of the main things that you will find, is help, friendly members, and a sport that the whole family can enjoy.
Old 05-13-2008, 10:58 AM
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kzimmerman
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

Ok, lets say we run two main divisions, hydro and mono. We then divide up each division based on boat length, eg 0-29" 30-39", 40" and larger. That way there are only 6 different classes. The boats would probably all be brushless to be competitive, unless we add in brushed classes. Most brushed boats I've seen were fairly small, so how about we just say the brusshed class has a maximum length of 32"? Hydro and mono, then we have a total of 8 classes. Not to many, and the rulescan be written to keep cost down, Ie no carbon fiber hulls, no lipos, ect. What do we say to this?

Lets get this going so we can get official electric classes available.

Kurt
Old 05-13-2008, 04:24 PM
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

My 2 cents. as a elec user.

Elec motors can have huge performance differences from one motor to the other. Most of the performance comes from the wattage, recommended voltage, gear reduciton drives, current draw of the batteries, number of cells, types of cells, wiring of the cells, and capabilities of the ESC.

It would be easiest to have stock classes much like they have in rc cars for brushed motors. 19 turn 27 turn, and modified. That would make it a bit easier for the brushed airboat guys. But honestly, most airboats are going to have brushless motors because of the high amount of power the can put out. In my own personal experience you can purchase a very high quality brushless setup that can have 1 hp to 3 hp depending on the number of cells and current/ wattages. The number of cells (volts) would have to be regulated in order to keep things as equal as possible. The large operating windows these motors has is also a big difference. I believe if the brushless airboats ever catch on most guys would be at the maximum regulations for each class, but determining the limiting factors is paramount.

I agree elecs should be divided more on size and hull type because two guys can have two very different motors that put out the same overall performance on identical hulls and vice versa. An in runner will have a much higher RPM than an outrunner, leading to reasonably higher prop speeds.

to start hulls should be divided into classes for elecs. Brushed should be separate from brushless. Other than that i think it should be open season on setups until we start to see a larger number of elec guys out there who actually start competing at the speed and course competitions. in the end the differences in motor types and battery cells counts will become obvious leading to discernible classes.

Any thoughts?
Old 05-14-2008, 08:28 AM
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kzimmerman
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

I know i airplanes they tend to look at wattage a pound as indicators of performance. Some motors make better use of wattage, just as some glow engines make better use of displacement. A good example would be a bushing 46 versus a ball bearing 46. Both of those engines would run in the 46 size though, so maybe wattage would be a good indicator. I'm trying to come up with a good baseline here to start with, and then add things as we need to. Theroetically, a class based on brushed motors with a max length would encourage development of hulls and power systems to increase speed. Do we want to go with high performance, or are we looking for a fun time with standardized hulls? If we go with standardized or one design classes, I would be willing to create and mold a couple of hulls. They will be for sale, but I will only charge what it takes to pay for materials, as I'm not looking to make money, I just want to further the electric part of this hobby. Personally, I think it could be interesting to have a one design hull, and have the RC universe airboat. (maybe towers can carry it!)

I'm really just brainstorming here, any thoughts?

Kurt
Old 05-14-2008, 01:38 PM
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mjderstine
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

i admire your efforts. i would be in line for anytihng you could come up with. it is always fun to have a baseline hull and just use different powerplants to move it. it would make for a great competition. this is a design im working on now.
Old 05-15-2008, 10:02 AM
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kzimmerman
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

Wanna colaborate some? I was thinking of a speed 400 direct drive competition hull. The pylon guys get over 100mph out of their planes, we should be able to get something cooking. I was thinking of a basic flat bottom boat, sides angled about 45 degrees to make for good drifting, I'm just debating on the size right now. It will be traditional air rudder, built very light to get speed, with a ballast area to increase the weight for different running conditions. Maybe something about 10x12 or so. What dya think?
Old 05-19-2008, 08:48 AM
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mjderstine
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

10 inches long? by 12" wide? im confused some.

how big are speed 400? i dont have any experience with those motors.

lets get some ideas going though
Old 05-22-2008, 09:26 AM
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kzimmerman
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

No, 12"long by 10 inches wide. A speed 400 motor is very common, I believe they are 28mm can motors. Direct drive you can make them scream pretty good with a 4.75x4.75 prop. This is what is commonly used in speed 400 pylon racing in airplanes. I'll build up a fff hull this weekend and give it a try, see what I can come up with.
Old 05-22-2008, 10:09 AM
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Default RE: Official Airboat classes!

that seems like a pretty small boat, but if its fast and fun, that all that matters! outrunner or in runner?

or are you planning some brushed motors? because i have about 3 of those speed 400 brushed laying around from old crashed park flyers

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