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Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

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Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Old 07-06-2005, 01:56 AM
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ccecreations
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Default Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Thanks for checking this out.... I need your educated assistance with a new boat. I recently purchased a Super Hawaii 40" deep vee that I am having trouble setting up. I tried running it stock but could not get it to plane properly at all. The factory instructions say nothing about CoG or battery placement. Realizing that even if it did plane properly it wouldn't be fast enough anyway I did some research and pulled the factory motors and replaced them with a single direct drive brushless motor turning at 15K. I am running 14 cells with this motor and it sounds like it really wants to rip up the lake. HOWEVER, I CANNOT GET IT UP ON PLANE! I can hear the prop cavitating really bad and I have no power. As far as trim goes I have it set at the factory setting but have tried all options (+/- trim) as well as battery placement. I really want to enjoy this boat but I am running out of ideas, all ideas are welcome and appreciated! Thanks again...
Old 07-06-2005, 09:12 AM
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biteme
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Um...just a guess, but if it is cavitating, as you say, and not planing, and the motor runs 15K? That sounds fast to me, I'd guess that you need to gear down, and use a larger prop. 15K is all well and fine for an airplane prop, and I honestly don't know for r/c boats, but my ski boat runs about 3k or 4k max. With the smaller scale, i can understand being able to spin it faster, but water is a lot thicker than air, 15k sounds awfully fast. If nobody else has guess, might be worth a try. Sean
Old 07-06-2005, 12:37 PM
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ccecreations
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

I will try some different props but this rpm is very close to what a Graupner 700BB runs at. A lot of people use this motor in various configurations. I am still curious why even stock the prop wouldn't hook up.
Old 07-06-2005, 02:46 PM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

A lot of the Graupners are not Direct drive.
They run 1.75-1 or 2-1 on the gear box.

Did you try throwing the boat for a start like the Nitro/Gas guys do?
Old 07-06-2005, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Apart from CoG issues you don't have too much rpm, but too little...

On 12 cells our direct drive 700 motors have over 23K rpm, turning a 45K graupner prop, on 14 cells that would be way over 27K...

Most likely the stock prop is too small.

Please put some pics in your gallery, so we can see what we have to guess educationally about...

Regards, Jan.

P.S.: I know these hulls can go ballistic, check out the post: "Ter Leering ende Vermaek".
Old 07-06-2005, 07:02 PM
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biteme
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

O.K., If the RPMs are good, then yes a larger prop might do it.
Old 07-06-2005, 11:44 PM
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ccecreations
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

I will post some pics for you shortly.... I think we are really making some headway and with a better launch we just might have it. The lake that I was testing in had a lot of weeds that I was zigzaging around before I could throttle up. I have a better lake now picked out so I should be able to launch it as a nitro does.


Any recommended props as a starting point?
Old 07-07-2005, 12:10 AM
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ccecreations
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Here's some pics to clarify... Thanks again for your suggestions!
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Old 07-07-2005, 09:22 AM
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biteme
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Have you considered a cavitation plate? for full size boats with similar setup (inboard/outdrive) even some outboards, a flat wing shaped plate attached to the outdrive above the prop. The reason for this piece is to keep air from being sucked down into the prop, which can happen when your prop is not under the boat. Some models even have adjustments, like trim plates, adjusting the AOA. If the only problem is cavitation, try a cav plate. I didn't even think of this until I saw the pics, and the setup, but looks like it might help. Sean
Old 07-07-2005, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

ORIGINAL: dogmoat

Have you considered a cavitation plate? for full size boats with similar setup (inboard/outdrive) even some outboards, a flat wing shaped plate attached to the outdrive above the prop. The reason for this piece is to keep air from being sucked down into the prop, which can happen when your prop is not under the boat. Some models even have adjustments, like trim plates, adjusting the AOA. If the only problem is cavitation, try a cav plate. I didn't even think of this until I saw the pics, and the setup, but looks like it might help. Sean
Chris,
Take a look at the picture I sent you showing the rear of a tricked up Super Hawaii. It shows the anti-cav plate that dogmoat describes above mounted on the outdrive.
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Old 07-07-2005, 01:43 PM
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biteme
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Hey Rooski! Thanks for the assist! exactly what I was talkin' 'bout. should help, Yes?
Old 07-08-2005, 09:20 AM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Hi sales,

If you're running the stock prop, it's no wonder the boat won't plane.

Try a 45K from Graupner and you'll be amazed.
The carbon prop hardly flexes, while the stock prop simply bends backwards under load.

Let us know how it goes.

Regards, Jan.
Old 07-09-2005, 10:16 PM
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ccecreations
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Okay, the official report...
I installed trim plates, re-designed the battery placement for a better cg, and headed out to the lake. I tried 12 cells first and it sort of planed/sort of pushed on the water. Still a dramatic difference from before but I know with some more testing and (cavitation plate) it will be even better. I brought it in to check motor temp and put in the better batteries. I decided to give the 14cells a try as I was running out of daylight. I took off and things were exactly the same. Suddenly the boat shot out the water like a rocket and took off! OH MAN THIS THING FLEW! I went to make a gentle turn and man did she skip. Suddenly the trim plate adjustment let go and the same plate that was helping me became my worst enemy. It caught a wave, dug in, and flipped. Here's the worst news..... Thinking it would be hard to flip a boat that couldn't go faster than 10MPH I didn't seal the hatch's. As I see the boat sitting upside down in the water, it hits me. Clothes go flying and I'm in the lake! It was a lot farther than I thought, and by the time I got there only the tip was bobbing on the surface. ALMOST LOST IT! Long story short I pulled it up just in time to hear a loud pop, sizzling, and a smoke cloud that blew the cover off. Damage report to follow.....Stay tuned.
Old 07-10-2005, 09:27 PM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Sorry for your bad luck. I wonder how many poor souls have drowned or nearly drowned trying to save their precious RC boat from the middle of the pond or lake.

Hopefully this won't happen to you again (after you put the turn fins on of course) but in case it does....you might want to pump some foam into that beast so at least the thing won't go to the bottom. BTW...did you still have the stock mechanical speed control installed when this happened?
Old 07-11-2005, 10:15 AM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Sales,
I bought a boat very similar to yours. Same hull, different electronics layout. Be ready to replace the shaft/prop setup, along with the rudder, as you will find the 'u-joint' set-up will wear away quickly, and the prop shaft will start to eat through the plastic on the rudder.
I am waiting for the new hardware to arrive, in the mean time, I have beefed up the transom in order to hold the new rudder, turn fin, trim tabs and shaft assembly.
I also flipped it and watched it sink, just like you. Got to it just as the words Titanic started to go underwater.
Old 07-12-2005, 12:55 PM
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ccecreations
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Hey Duck, what running gear did you upgrade to? I figured it wouldn't last long with this configuration...especially that u joint. Robs power in the turns. You know, the worst part was my own stupidity and not fully sealing the hull. Thanks for the kind words everyone. --------- I pulled everything apart and dried it out with compressed air. Thankfully the motor is fine, receiver and servo as well but the motor controller is toast. The explosion when I reached the boat really surprised me, I had never seen this before. Not only was my Castle creations speed control smoldering but one of the battery packs had exploded as well. Any one had this happen to them? I've dunked plenty of boats but never seen anything like this?
Old 07-12-2005, 02:10 PM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Sales,

I ordered the SpeedMasters hardware from Offshore, along with a CF Turn Fin, some couplers, and trim tabs. Just got them today, so I'll start work tonight on the refit. I doubled up the ABS on the transom by taking a beautiful BEWARE OF THE DOG sign and trimming it to fit, then glued it toghether.

It looks like I'll need a trip to the LHS tonight on the way home to grab some epoxy and some other odds and ends, but, hopefully, by Thursday, I'll be ripping up the waves again.

Luckily, mine didn't fry anything after I flipped it, but I'm sure that with all the other excitement associated with a sinking craft, a small explosion would certainly make you go ....HuH!?!?!
Old 07-12-2005, 11:48 PM
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ccecreations
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Hey Duck, do they have a website? Maybe I'll try doing a search and see what I come up with. You should post some pics when it's done, I for one would love to see the final results and perhaps give me some ideas as well. Have fun on your project, Sales
Old 07-13-2005, 07:58 AM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Sales,

I have gotten all of my upgrades from Offshore Electrics.com, including the 700SS1 motor, Jeti 600 Navy ESC, GP3700 packs (I run 14 cells) and all the various other items that I have needed to get this barge moving. I got the Drive unit, Rudder, and turn fin installed last night, Now I have to cut the cable, remount the motor, and rerun my water pickup line. Then I have to wire in more running lights and test for leaks in the bath tub. Hopefully Thursday, it will be back on the water. I will post pics tomorrow after I get it finished. Wish me luck!!

Duck
Old 07-13-2005, 12:34 PM
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ccecreations
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Good Luck!
Old 07-13-2005, 10:36 PM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Sales,

Here are a few picks, while I wait to see if it will pass the tub test.
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:30 AM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Holy crap, that is gorgeous! I found the site and I will def. have to follow in your footsteps. Where did you find that hull? Looks identical to the S.H. except actually in white... Can't wait to hear how it performs.
Now your just teasing us, ... Lets see the money maker on that ship of yours. You seriously need to post some more pics!
Old 07-14-2005, 12:37 AM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Sales,
I posted some more in 'My Models' Click on it then go to the gallery. Tomorrow will be the day, weather providing.

I'll get some more pics and maybe a video shot.

Duck
Old 07-15-2005, 07:49 PM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Does anybody know where you can still get parts for the Super Hawaii? I bought mine when it first came out and was running it when the back cover with the wing, drivers blew off and sank in 180 ft of water. Now after a couple years of being in the closet I want to start messing with it and want to get it back into shape, but it really is not the same without that back cover. If somebody knows where I can find one or knows somebody that has an old boat and wants to get rid of it for parts, please let me know.

By the way, what you guys do to modify these is awesome. Definitely going to a single 700 motor soon. I've got twin modifieds in the stock setup with a 435m controller and 12 cells and it goes pretty good with short run time, but watching the video of the modified boats with the 700 motor has turned me into a believer.

-Jordan
Old 07-16-2005, 02:34 AM
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Default RE: Needed: Educated assistance for Super Hawaii

Wish I knew more myself, although I can tell you that it really is a different machine after these mods. Although I only got to run mine for a few minutes before the "incident" it was unbelievable. The whole reason I bought this boat was for the upgrade potential. It is a great hull to start with.... If you have any questions please be sure to ask! Sales

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