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newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

Old 07-30-2006, 02:39 AM
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Default newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

This may sound completely nuts to most of you r/c boat guys and gals, but I'm currently building a boat like device for shark bait deployment in the surf off the beach. Typically we kayak our baited shark rigs out and drop them off and paddle back in and set up our rods. We fish for large sharks...in the 6-8 foot range. I am currently doing a design/build of a craft that I believe will be able to handle the harsh evnvironment of the surf and stay very stable. I am not quite ready to jump in with the engine, speed control, servos, radio....etc...that I will need to get this thing out and back from the beach. I want to continue testing my boat design to make sure it's up to the task before spending the fairly large bucks it will take to get this thing moving. Just wanted to give you some background on the project...I'm a civil engineer with an electronics background from the airforce. Anyway...my first question about all of this is what kind of radio I will need that will have a range of at least a 1/4 mile? Also I want to be able to use a servo to release a hook device to actually drop the baited shark rig from the boat. Will I need just a 3 channel setup....1 for the throttle or speed control....1 for the steering and 1 for dropping the hook mechanism? I plan to get with a local r/c shop to help me figure out the motor installation and the custom rudder system I have in mind. Any directional help in this project would be greatly appreciated. I am getting the basic boat design constructed right now and will post some pics of my contraption and see what ya'll think about my chances of success...lol.
Old 07-31-2006, 10:19 AM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

Maybe I got alittle wordy in my previous post. I'll just make it real simple this time. What kind of radio/reciever setups will have a range of 1/4 mile +...? I'm sure someone out there has a good idea of the range of remote radios. Just trying to get some basic info. Thanks in advance.
Old 07-31-2006, 10:55 AM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

Most of the manufacturers hedge and won't give an exact range. If you make sure the antenna extends as far as possible, the typical 3 channel FM radios used for boats and cars should work fine at the distances you're describing. I took a look at the Futaba web site and they said a system designed for airplane use but converted to a surface frequency would give the best distance. They will do this conversion for <$50 on most systems.

You'll probably hear this again, but since you plan to do this in salt water, it's critical that you ensure that the radio is completely protected from water.
Old 07-31-2006, 02:52 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

Thanks for the info piper chuck. I kayak and spend alot of time in saltwater with lots of different gear and that has taught me that saltwater will eat through just about anything. I have a plan for keeping all electronics and linkages waterproof. I went to a local hobby r/c shop at lunch and saw a futuba radio (T4YF) that is for aircraft that the guy said would work fine for what I'm trying to do. He want $125 for it as a kit with 4 servos and the receiver and radio. I should be finished with the construction of this thing in the next few days and will post some pics. My whole idea revolves around the whitewater solo kayakers that run those large raft pontoon looking boats through the really rough class 5 river runs. they sit in the middle and have oar locks. They seem to be very stable and that's what I need in the surf. Thanks again for the info. btw...finished means this phase....After I put it together I have to do the trial by fire and get it in the waves to see how it behaves. Hopefully this next weekend if all goes well.
Old 07-31-2006, 02:53 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

purpletdude,
All of the typical R/C radio systems you'll find have about the same range. They've all got the same power output limitations, so the easiest 'best' way of insuring good range is to get the antenna (both Transmitter and receiver) as high as possible (extends the RF horizon). From there it's more a matter of how many 'things' you want to control. From the sound of it, a typical three channel radio of some name brand ought to work just fine.
- 'Doc

PS - Along with all the other stuff you'll have to carry down to the beach, now you get to take a 9 foot step ladder! - LOL
Old 07-31-2006, 03:37 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

sounds like a cool idea! good luck
Old 08-03-2006, 12:15 AM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

Well doc...thanks for the info on the radios...fortunately we get to drive on the beach here and I can just get up on the dunes and get nice and high. Would a longer aftermarket antenna be a better thing than one stock with the radio? I know I'm gonna need some high torque servos for the dual rudder system. I'm planning on oversizing them...custom cut thin gauge stainless steel about 3" x 4" mounted on each rear outer pontoon. I'm really lost on the engine. Of course it has to be electric and I'm planning on mounting it in the center body buoy but I'm gonna have to get help with that. I found a local boat club that has monthly meet and greets at a local small lake and I plan on taking her over there and try and find some r/c boat expert that can lead me in the right directions. Again...I appreciate the radio info and I'm gonna go ahead and post some IN-CONSTRUCTION pics so ya'll can see this contraption. I will post finished body pics sometime this weekend when I get done.

Mark (purpletdude)
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Old 08-13-2006, 04:58 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

Ok...
I finished the design build of this thing and took it out in the surf the test the design stability and overall working ability and it passed with flying colors! I will say that the surf was pretty small that day, but I did test it in a good 2' of breaking surf and it handled extremely stable. I tried to get this thing to turn over every which way I could. I pushed it sideways into a breaking wave and it just kept on rockin...lol I tested it as is (no weight) and also tested it with 38 lbs of weight that I have calculated as the approx. finished weight. I will have to power this thing with a marine trolling motor (motor, housing, wiring and speed control from a Minn Kota 40s trolling motor). 3 - 12v/12aH
gel cell batteries will be used for power. This should give me a good hour of run time at full throttle. This is a 40 lb. thrust motor but I plan to govern the motor back to about 34 lb thrust for power consumption needs. I still have some details to work out for the dual rudder system and the rig drop mechanism, but I think that will be fairly easy to design/build.
Anyway...here are some updated pics of the craft and me testing it in the surf....
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Old 08-13-2006, 11:08 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

'P.Dude',
Receiver antennas aren't critical about length at all. Longer is better to a certain point, and then it's just too unweldy(sp). Transmitter antennas are a different story! Unless you really know what you're doing I wouldn't mess with them at all (it's much easier to make them worse than better). After that, it's a matter of which one you like the looks and 'feel' of the best (not to mention cheap and available).
About the limiting the motor's power. I think your best bet would be to not try to limit it at all except by keeping your foot out of the 'gas', who knows when that little bit 'extra' might come in handy.
- 'Doc
Old 08-13-2006, 11:23 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

Thanks LtDoc for the antenna advice. I hear ya about the power issue, but I'm thinking that a 49-50# craft like this will still pull a wheelie with 34 lbs. thrust..lol Heck that motor was made to push a very large heavy full sized boat along at a pretty good click. I'm still doing some research on the speed control with minn kota....they have an updated controller that is very power efficient...but made for a larger..higher current motor. I'm waiting to here from there tech about modifying it for the motor I'm going to use. Well see how it goes.
Old 08-18-2006, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

Two little quick comment, If You are going to use a Aircraft Radio for the craft PLEASE convert it to a surface frequency! Also thinking You might end up top Heavy. Looking forward to seeing the finished craft. Good luck
Old 08-19-2006, 04:37 AM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

I do have some experience with using a trolling motor for rc boat use. My hull is a 60" shallow vee design with a Minn-kota 10 trolling motor for power. It had been lying around my shop for years since it had been updated for newer more powerful motor. I cut the shaft and mounted the motor on the transom. I use no rudders at all. I mounted a sail winch servo (Hitech 1/4 scale) inside the hull and put 2 each round sail type servo horns glued together on the servo. The top horn is used to pull and the lower arm is used to push. I fitted my trolling motor shaft with an old weedeater line holder that is used like a cathead drum. This lets the motor turn 360 degrees and reverese the boat. My first problem with this design was the trolling motor turned way to fast and the boat turned around a lot without control. I fixed that problem with additional wraps on the shaft pulley. Now the thing works perfect. The only problem I see with your design is keeping your vessel going straight without a lot of oversteer in chop. Some type of keel will possibly be needed with a fixed shaft trolling motor and experimenting with rudders of different widths and lengths. Love out of the box thinking.
Old 08-19-2006, 04:43 AM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

I would suggest a surface radio and not an air radio system. As far as the number of channels needed, I think that you can get away with using a 2 channel radio. I say this because the 2 channel surface radios are designed for rc cars and trucks. On the pistol type transmitters you simply pull the trigger for power and push the trigger for brakes. Rc boats don't have brakes, so the same servo could be used to released the bait. Get a transmitter with end point adjustment so you can have more adjustability of servo use. Good luck and keep us posted. John
Old 08-19-2006, 06:41 AM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

hi there
in New Zealand ,this sort of device is called a "Kontiki" it takes a long fishing line out past the breakers

although Kontikis are alot simpler than what your explaining...there made of VERY sturdy material and set to a timer and when the timer lapses, it cuts the motor and you leave it out there until you get bites....then you reel it all in, kontiki included....was no need for an RC unit

rc would be more fun but why dont you design it to stay out there??? would be easier and it'll act as a Buoy

sorry i couldnt help with your RC unit queries...

hope this helps
Old 08-21-2006, 10:37 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

I love everyones input on this thing.....it's definitely "out of the box thinking here". In answer to the radio situation.....there is noway I can get the 1/2 range I need for this thing. We run lines out 500 yds....I can't lose control of this thing or I'm doing a long swim to get her back. I plan on buying a fully programmable 7 channel radio due to my new r/c airplan hobby I just picked up and will eventually be building a cool F4U Corsair. I'm already flying and landing very well for a newbie. But I feel really comfortable already with my Super Cub 3 channel trainer RTF I bought to learn with. What a BLAST!!!!

Back to the boat.....in response to da mad maori.....we do some what we call balloon fishing along the coast to surface fish for large sharks and tarpon....but mainly we kayak out large live or dead whole or cut fish bait and drop it off fishing the bottom with a specially made shark leader and fight/land the shark....tag it for the US Fisheries Apex Predator study....taking a few pics and measurements and then send it on it's merry way.....

Ok...Lawnsplus....I need to have a servo operated mechanical drop arm/hook to actually deploy the bait.....that will come out of the bobtail on the back. I will also have 2 4"x4" stainless steel rudders mounted with linkage to each rear outer pontoon. These rudders will be about 1/4 thick for weight and stability in the strong surf current. I will definitely need some high torque servos to operate these rudders. I have it basically already designed just still testing the actual craft for stability in different surf conditions....soon the surf will turn form very calm and nice to very boiling here on the texas coast. Probably another couple of weeks and I can test it in some serious crashing surf.

All things look really good on this project so far....I've actually been donated a used 36 lb thrust trolling motor to start the mechanics of it all. Who knows...this thing may come to be much sooner than I planned....time will tell...

Thanks for the encouragement and ideas.....keep em coming.

purpletdude
Old 08-21-2006, 11:59 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

You should get a spektrum DX6 good for land or air $199.00. 6 channels.
Old 08-22-2006, 02:14 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

Don....I'll look at that radio...but I'm looking hard right now at this Futaba 7HP......7 channels, fully programmable and it's got all the buttons and program capability to fly heli's too...if I ever want to go that direction. I really like this r/c stuff. I've been in civil engineering for 17 years since the airforce and I miss the hands on electronic work and tinkering....I've been doing ALOT of work with LED's in the last couple of years....I can honestly say that I had my own 10 LED flashlight that I made and designed myself.....months before you could buy one at the store...lol. Just givin you alittle bit on my background.....I HAVE to stay busy!!!!

Well thanks for the advice and I see you have a boat works....is that for r/c boats? I am also a big coastal kayaker.....love to invent lighting and power devices for kayaks.....I've been playing with a design for a kayak for the handicapped folks out there.....to be able to cruize the coastal bay waters (calm in summer) and just enjoy without having to paddle...

Well have a good one all......please keep the feedback coming!
Old 08-22-2006, 06:37 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

why dont you forget the whole boat idea and build some sort of catapult! hehe

back to the boat...im a bit of a newbie myself but im not new to building things !QUOT!out of the box!QUOT!

i wouldnt rely on a servo to release the bait...weights of the bait could shift and servo might jam because of it
what about having the servo activating a small geared electric motor which pulls the release arm open??
it only needs to open once...would be stronger, more reliable

Ryan
Old 11-29-2006, 02:01 AM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

See one of my clients sites to solve your problem....\\


You don't need to use a servo to get your line released by RC . This can be done with a pressure release clip. I have been kite fishing for 12 years and have played with RC releases. The problems are that water flattens the batteries, servos get wet. receivers fail and some weather conditions prevent your signal getting to the spot.Lightning and storms will affect your usage . most ground frequencies ( 27Mhz) have strange effects in storms!

So for your unit, I recommend the "black" release clip that can be purchased from http://www.nettiser.com.au/kitefishi...s_SA/clips.htm. You may want to use their on-line order system or email mail so go to their main page and look around. I belive a graphic showing the clips workings is going to be uploaded , ( not there yet I checked) but I have sent email to see what the hold up is.

This clips are excellent I use them all the time to get my lines released up to 600m from the shore with varying weights on the line. You can alter the pressure release knob to accommodate just about any weight. Cheap @ $AUD18.00 plus postage ($aud7.50) Registered. Buy more than 1 clup and the postage remains the same up to about 12 clips.

Old 11-29-2006, 02:05 AM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

What are those bullet shaped floats made from and where can I get some I have an immediate use for them in a project i am considering. They will go just fine into the front end of my RC landyacht models. Ohh what price and are the suppliers on the web?

Cheers
Nettiser
Old 11-29-2006, 04:01 AM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

If you're looking at a 7C, you might be better off looking at a 9CAP Super II. The reason for this is the 9C has interchangable frequency modules, letting you use the same radio for cars, boats, robots and planes. I know you can get modules in the 72 and 75 MHZ bands, so you would be good to go[8D]
I'm doing the same thing with one for 5 scale hydroplanes, 1 54" trainer and 3 aerobatic planes, with room in the memory for 7 more models
Old 11-29-2006, 04:49 AM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice


ORIGINAL: nettiser

What are those bullet shaped floats made from and where can I get some I have an immediate use for them in a project i am considering. They will go just fine into the front end of my RC landyacht models. Ohh what price and are the suppliers on the web?

Cheers
Nettiser
fishing buoys, (lobster, crab) that kind of thing
Old 11-30-2006, 09:10 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

im not too sure about the thrust with the breakers and current, but i have an 8 ft coleman crawdad pontoon boat with a 30lb thrust trolling motor and it pushes me(200lbs), the boat(50lbs), my fishin buddy(190), 4 fishing poles(4.5), 2 12 volt golf cart batteries(45lbs), fishing tackle(20lbs), my son occasionally(45lbs), a cooler with ice, lunch, drinks, and sometimes beer when my son aint in the boat(40 lbs).. my point is that a 30lb motor on one battery at a time will last me all day(from 6am to 6pm) with a lot of usage chasing bass and the motor only slightly gets warm after pushing across the lake with a 5-8mph headwind, and full throttle!!! good luck with your rig, sounds exciting and fun!!!
Old 01-08-2007, 12:41 AM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

So sorry I haven't been in here to update and thank everyone for the advice and experience! Nessiter...those pressure clips I'm definitely gonna check out....I would LOVE to get away from a servo release! I have mounted my trolling motor in the main center bouy...if you look at my pics of the finished design...you'll see that would be the orange bouy in the middle....I'll try to get some pics posted of that. I have discovered that I would be top heavy the way I'm setting this up...but I think I have that worked out by rerigging my outer potoons with the same sized bouy as the main center one. I've done some calcs on this with the gel cells I'm using...everything should ride at just the right height. My rudder system is in my head but that's it right now...I will have to spend a considerable amount of dinero to continue....but it won't take me long to get her going once the weather and water start warming up...I've got her on hold right now due to hunting season...but that's about over...but now theirs college tuition to pay...lol....and helping out with the grandbaby definitely taps my wallet....lol. Hopefully...by mid summer at the latest shes running out baits by the dozen! btw...I've looked at the kontiki's and they look great...just about $1000 more than what mines gonna do with excellent precision and control. I will be asking you folks that have jumped in on frequencies to give me some insite....so when that radio gets close I'll be in touch....Again...thanks for all the input.....she'll be a fine vessel when I get done with her...I can tell.
Old 01-11-2007, 07:36 PM
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Default RE: newbie building crazy boat needs some advice

got any update pics???

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