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resins, sealants, fillers, etc

Old 06-06-2008, 06:59 PM
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Big Buffalo
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Default resins, sealants, fillers, etc

im going to be starting my first boat build soon and just trying to figure out everything before i start...etc

when it comes to resins, sealants and fillers...what should i be using? im guessing ya need some sort of resin to keep the deck onto the hull, preventing water, etc... and then some sort of sealant around the propshaft....could i use just RTV silicon sealant for this? what about fillers inside the hull....do i use fibre glass filler to keep all the electrical parts leveled on the bottom of the hull...im not even sure what the filler is for...
Old 06-06-2008, 09:10 PM
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Al Stein
 
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

The adhesives and fillers mostly need to be compatible with the materials of your hull and your finish.

So, if your hull is wooden, you can use nearly anything that will go with your finish. If your hull is glass and it's got a beautiful gel-coat surface you won't put a finish on, then you can use epoxies for adhesives and fillers, adn you could theoretically use silicones to seal your shaft to the hull. No paints or resins like silicones...

So, what kind of hull are you bulding and what kind of finish are you planning?
Old 06-07-2008, 09:16 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

I forgot to mention that...woops, um... I think the hull is made out of Glass-reinforced plastic.
Old 06-07-2008, 05:20 PM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

im sorry that was a bit confusing at the end....so you think i could use silicone sealants on the GRP material or no?
Old 06-08-2008, 05:06 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

Yes, Silicone sealants can be used to seal GRP hulls (also known as fiberglass) and to attach equipment in them.

he thing they're not good for is for places where you'd want to paint or to attach wooden structures like decks. Paint or normal glue won't stick well (if at all). Silicone goop is good at sticking to things that are not easy to stick to, but very little will stick to the silicone stuff once you've used it.



Old 06-08-2008, 09:45 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

if im not mistaken, i think the deck is also fiberglass...not wood. so i could use the silicone sealant to attach the deck to the hull (im guessing)....once im done fitting all the electrical parts, and it's working the way i want... etc. i just hope the silicone sealant is strong enough, lets say i wanted to attach a handle to the deck or to the hatch, would it hold... and the only thing wood would be the hatch i believe, and im still not sure how to fit all the electrical parts inside so they're leveled....am i suppose to be using a filler(epoxy? or could i use fiberglass filler?) for that or do i use thin plywood for mounting the parts. i haven't got the hull yet so i can't really take detail photos of what it looks like inside yet...but i probably will once i get it.
Old 06-09-2008, 05:01 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

Silicone sealant to fix a deck? Maybe. To pick the boat up that way? Probably not. It all depends on the type of boat. I would look at epoxy adhesive to join deck and hull. Also for sealing the prop shaft.
Level the electrics? Why? Electricity works on a slant just as well as level. Perhaps what you mean is "How do I stick a flat plank into the bottom of the hull".
Knowing the size and type of boat would be helpful, as different sizes and types have different best answers.
Old 06-09-2008, 08:24 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

Quite true from my experience too.

Yes, you probably could attach the deck using silcone stuff (and actually you could probably get a very strong attachment), but epoxy is a much more natural way to go there, and with epoxy you can then smooth and finish the seam.

If you did decide to place a carry handle on deck, there would need to be a structure to carry the pull of the handle through the hull so that the weight underneath was supported solidly. (To keep the weight of the boat from trying to pull the deck off of the hull.) And the way to do that is by installing deck beams that attach strongly to the hull, spannig the hull width-wise, and then attaching the handle to the deck beams.

It would be good if you caould tell us a little more about the size and type/usage of your boat...
Old 06-09-2008, 11:57 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

here are some photos of the hull, it measures L = 36" W = 12"







finished boat




when it comes to epoxy, which is the best to get? just your typical epoxy with 30 min dry time so you have plenty of time to work with it before it hardens, etc... because ive used 60 second epoxy before and it hardens WAY too fast.

i will take some detail photos of the inside of the hull, these photos are from the guy who makes the boat so that's all i have right now. i should get the hull probably within the next two weeks im guessing.
Old 06-09-2008, 06:44 PM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

Tell us more about this hull and where you found it. Never seen this before myself. What's up with the rear being open?
Old 06-09-2008, 07:40 PM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

the hull is from the UK and they're called bait boats, it's for fishing....puts bait out in your area basically. i finally found the proper hull so im going to attempt it. i have no RC experience, but i am learning quick. these boats are helpful because we need large amounts of bait far out....like 10 lbs at 150 yards, etc.. i hope that makes sense.
Old 06-09-2008, 07:44 PM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

Oh, that sounds interesting. Is there a website to get more info on this boat? Would like to know more about it.
Old 06-09-2008, 08:33 PM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

If you want more info on bait boats in general, you can just google/youtube "bait boats" and find plenty, but if you're talking about this particular hull, you only can find it on UK ebay (one guy sales & makes it)...if you search "bait boat hull"....the thing is, the hull itself cost about $100, maybe a little more...but what kills me considering I live here in the states is the postage...which is probably another $100...so I'm paying a good $200-$220 for the hull alone. I wish I could get it for $100 and I'd be happy with that.
Old 06-09-2008, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

You have a PM
Old 06-10-2008, 08:00 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc


ORIGINAL: <SNIP>...so I'm paying a good $200-$220 for the hull alone. I wish I could get it for $100 and I'd be happy with that.
That could certainly be arranged if there's a little bit of market for them...

How do the ones like you're buying come equipped? Is that metal bait bay included? complete? installed? All artound, it looks like a significantly easier project than developing a glass sailboat, which we do over and over again.
Old 06-10-2008, 09:36 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

hull, deck, and aluminum hopper (which he makes himself I believe) all included....if you want him to cut the inspection hatch for you, that's another $20 to $30 depending on what size hatch you want, etc. he includes a 6mm plywood hatch door, but i think i will have to figure out how to mount it myself. i might even have to paint the hatch door to match the boat too. The boat itself is not that expensive, it's just the postage doubles the price from the UK to the US...which sucks!

so epoxies...which kind is best? also when it comes to fillers, do they have the same purpose as epoxies?
Old 06-13-2008, 12:56 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

so what epoxies are good..
Old 06-13-2008, 09:45 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

so what epoxies are good..
There are many great epoxies out there. In my opinion, Loktite Hysol 9462 is the very best. This stuff is thixotropic (won't run or sag) and is used extensively by the turbine jet fliers for glueing plywood bulkheads to fiberglass. It has at least a one hour working time but full cure is overnight.

Get it here:

http://www.dreamworksrc.com/catalog/...roducts_id=263

http://www.dreamworksrc.com/catalog/...products_id=52
Old 06-13-2008, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

do i have to get that gun too? that kit is expensive.

when sealing the deck to the hull...is it as simple as just putting a line of epoxy around the hull trim and then placing the deck onto the hull....perhaps lay something on the deck like a book etc...to keep the pressure overnight?
Old 06-13-2008, 09:37 PM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

im guessing i need the gun then...
Old 06-14-2008, 10:21 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

Yes, you need the applicator gun. A one time investment.
Old 06-14-2008, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

i noticed there is a $5 hand plunger too...could i use that instead?
Old 06-16-2008, 02:01 PM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

Maybe overcome by events by now, but I have a comment on needs versus wants and best versus good enough...

Adhering a deck to a hull, especially for low speed use, is just not a high-stress application... it would be hard to find an epoxy that is not up to the job. Any decent epoxy will join your deck without danger of failure. So, if best means the maximum performance per dollar, in this application you'll probably find it at Wal-Mart, not at a place that specializes in jet aircraft. As for thickening, microballons are a super product but wood dust or baby powder will work just as well at a weight penalty that is probably too small to measure but at a price that is way superior. Mixing and applying is done very easily with popsicle sticks...

I have nothing against Hysol or special applicator guns, but for joining the deck to your bait boat the only difference you'll see from them is maybe a little convenience and definitely a much higher price.
Old 06-17-2008, 08:54 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc

i was thinking why couldn't i just use J-B Weld Epoxy?
Old 06-17-2008, 09:17 AM
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Default RE: resins, sealants, fillers, etc


ORIGINAL: ...why couldn't i just use J-B Weld Epoxy?
I think that'll work just fine. I've used JB Weld to reshape metal parts and haven't had any problems and I've used various epoxies on fiberglass (including polyester-based glass) with excellent results. Clean it all well (I use acetone, MEK, or automotive degreaser (prep-sol) but even detergent washing followed with alcohol should be fine) and sand the gloss off... you'll be good to go.

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