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painting disaster

Old 01-25-2010, 05:14 PM
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R.J. West
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Default painting disaster

Today I attempted to paint my Dumas sport 40 U-76 Atlas van Lines using a two part epoxy paint by Klass-kote. Needless to say i have very little experience mixing paints of any kind let along spray painting them. I own no equipment, and went out and bought some Preval sprayers which I used in the past.
I mixed up 1 part of Klass-kote part A with an equal amount of part B. As per instructions so the paint can "induct" I let it sit for about 30 minutes. after the 30 minutes I added 1 part of Laquer thinner, shook up the bottle real good for about a minute and used a Preval disposable sprayer.
The initial results were promising, however after a minute or two of spraying the paint looked like water over a waxed surface. And my potential masterpiecenow lookslike a kindergarten disaster....
Now, my plans are to let the stuff sit for a few days. Its only the rear deck and rear of the cowl that got painted, but I'm gonna let it sit for a few days, then sand most of it off.
My next options are to rattle can it myself...
Or pay an auto body shop to paint it for me....
Old 01-25-2010, 05:19 PM
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Dreamin Hemi
 
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Default RE: painting disaster

Being a very experienced painter, Isuppose the first question I need to ask is how did you prep the surface? What is the surface material you're spraying over?
Old 01-25-2010, 05:30 PM
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Default RE: painting disaster



The boat was sealed with epoxy and sanded smooth. Then a couple coats of primer was shot over to see if any spots need reworking, wet sanded with 400, then prior to painting I rubbed the hull down with thinner to wipe off any dust that may be on there.
I dont have much spray painting experience, other than shooting down projects with rattle can paint. I used preval sprayers in the past with no problems...

Old 01-25-2010, 07:31 PM
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Default RE: painting disaster

Sounds like you did a decent prep, hard to understand why this happened. My experience comes from automotive paint applications in several different shops. I'm a little familiar with the epoxy paints you used. If I remember right, last time I used that product you needed a special epoxy thinner that they offered if you needed to thin it out for spraying. Are you sure your lacquer thinner is compatable with this epoxy product? I would take a close look at that theory, as I would guess they are not. Would definatly explain the problem you had.
Old 01-25-2010, 08:38 PM
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Default RE: painting disaster

either there was foreign material in the sprayer /bottle or your surface had wax/grease or condensation on it
Old 01-25-2010, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: painting disaster

I would say the same thing as Dreamin Hemi and that the paint and thinner do not mix.
Old 01-25-2010, 09:45 PM
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misshydro
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Default RE: painting disaster

sound like to me you got silicon proublems..do you spray any WD40 or any armerol or stuff that has silicon in them...You need to get fisheye elemator...I use that most of the times when I'm painting..you dont use lacqure thinner with wash your boat with,that can also cause fisheyes too... You need to also use prep sol=tar&wax grease remover...was your boat down with that before you paint..trust me,I do autobody&paint for aliving...
Old 01-25-2010, 11:25 PM
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Default RE: painting disaster

No, the only logical answer is that the laquer thinner I chose was not compatable with epoxy paints.
Klass-kote reconmends using their reducer, however in the event that it is not available then they suggest using a high quaility laquer thinner that is compatable with epoxy paints...
i'm just gonna chalk this up as a never ending learning experience and just go back to how I've always painted my boats.
I've had good results using Rustoleum & Dupli-color spray can paints & just using a good quaility fuel proof clear over it....So I'm just gonna let this epoxy set for a few, sand it down and just hose my boat down with a few cans of Dupi-color....When I'm finished with my Pak 20, then I'l try the klass-kote again, this time with their reducer....
Old 01-26-2010, 12:24 AM
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Default RE: painting disaster

I'd used lacqure thinners from the hardwaer store that is compartible with epoxys and other paints.. I'd used lacqure thinner in thining urethane clears and colors before without any proublems..yes you heard me wright too,,,I know way to many tricks to paint stuff..learned it from old timers in this autobody paint business.
Old 01-26-2010, 01:03 AM
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Default RE: painting disaster

It seemed that it mixed well. Sucks cause parts of it really good, slick N' shiny and then other parts it just ran all over the place and orange peeled in other areas....The paint dried dust tack free in about 10-15 minutes, 6 hrs later it can be handled for the most part without leaving thumbprints. I used a preval jar, 2 ounces part A, 2 ounces part B, capped off the jar and shook it up for a few minutes then I let it sit for 40 minutes. after 40 minutes I added 2 ounces thinner, shook it up again real good, and attached the top of the preval thing and pressed the button til the paint came out without farting at me.
Then I proceded to spray the boat cowl first. At first it was starting to look like a white boat, then after a minute or so, the paint started to separate & run in parts. Then my temperature started to rise...I think that the laquer thinner was just cheap and/or wasnt compatable.....
I'm just gonna hose it down with some Dupli-Color.....
Old 01-26-2010, 01:39 AM
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Default RE: painting disaster

I've never heard of paint needing 40 minutes to mix, but I've never used Klass-Kote. Pot life for most catalized paints are usually within an hour and should be sprayed after 5 minutes or so of mixing.
Old 01-26-2010, 03:00 AM
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Default RE: painting disaster

I ordered up some more Klass kote white Parts A & B.......and a 16 oz. can of klass kotes reducer this time......I'm more than sure the thinner i chose wasnt compatable....Its the only logical way it would look good over here, then run like ***** in other areas...I really rather paint my hulls with Epoxy paints cause epoxy will bond with the material that its being applied to.
So again, I'm not an experienced painter by far, but ya gotta learn somehow.....
Old 01-26-2010, 06:09 PM
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Default RE: painting disaster

Ok I think I know part to hole proublem..I use DP40 is a epoxy primer..thats the only epoxy paint I'd used accept Imorns its like epoxy....On epoxy resons like the one I'm using on my eagel,its 1to1 mix ratio..Most of those mix ratio's like that has a 30min cure time...I bet its the same as your paint....plus what your hardner/part B cure time...I bet your paint cure time is 30mins and the paint started to cure up....This is why I stick to automotive paints..clears & paints in my cup wont cure up until 2 hours because I have a good seal gun cup...Paint will dry to a touch in 15-30 mins..I wait to paint 10-15 on each paint coats..
Old 01-26-2010, 10:13 PM
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Default RE: painting disaster

It could be that your adding the reducer too late? Should it be added when the parts are first mixed?

I've used acetone with epoxy glue. Laquer thinner seems to not want to mix.

Reducers are usually more than one component unlike using just acetone or laquer, there might be MEK or such also added to it.

Try again RJ, it should turn out okay this time. I'm just glad to here its not sitting in a gooey mess that wont cure.
Old 01-27-2010, 01:51 AM
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Default RE: painting disaster

I followed the directions exactally as stated on the side of the cans....Its just the laquer thinner I chose didnt work with it, so I ordered a can of klass kotes reducer and will give it another shot. I dont give up too easily....
Old 01-27-2010, 05:05 AM
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Default RE: painting disaster


ORIGINAL: R.J. West

I followed the directions exactally as stated on the side of the cans....Its just the laquer thinner I chose didnt work with it, so I ordered a can of klass kotes reducer and will give it another shot. I dont give up too easily....
Good luck, can't wait to hear the results.

Old 01-28-2010, 09:38 AM
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Default RE: painting disaster


ORIGINAL: R.J. West ... it would look good over here, then run like ***** in other areas...
If the paint works in some areas of the hull and doesn't work in others, it sure seems as if the hull must have had something on parts of it's surface.

Old 01-28-2010, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: painting disaster

The entire hull has been primered with Duplicolor automotive primer then wet sanded w/400. Just prior to painting I wetted down a clean rag with laquer thinner.
I also tested brushing it on later, on a clean piece of 1/16 plywood & got simialr results telling me that it wasnt mixing well enough with the thinner I chose.

One of two things happen here.

One, the klass-kote was mixed correctly & the thinner was compatable, and just didnt stick/or reacted to the primered surface.....or

The paint was not compatable with the thinner....

I used dupli-color aut primer, its possible that it wasnt compatable with the laquer thinner....cause it sure looks like laquer sprayed over enamel after it dried.....Now its a real pain in my A.....arm to sand off....I'm just going to sand, then wet sand some more and finish the hull with Dupi-color gloss white and clear over it with Urethane...

The klass-kote is a decent product, I'l just have to use their reducer, and spary it over the epoxy sealed hull....
Old 01-28-2010, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: painting disaster

I also use KlasKote but you need to use there thinner. The instructions said to let your pot set 1/2 hr mixing together before using or adding thinner I have some good cans of hobbypoxy which doesn't mix with KlassKote thinner.
Old 02-04-2010, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: painting disaster

Well I got up this morning at 0730 and started grinding away the paint. I used 220 and once the intial shine was knocked down it wasnt that bad to sand. Another cool thing is I didnt have to change sandpaper as it didnt even come close to clogging the paper. It'l make one heck of a base for my next paint job as its pretty smooth right now.
Now I have to make a choice.
1. reprimer again and wet sand w/400 and shoot it down with rattle can dupi-color, and clear over that w/ urethane. (my probably best choice as it would be easier for me to paint the Atlas van lines stripes)
2.Mix up another batch of klass kote & use their reducer as recondmended and shoot it down with my preval sprayer. But then I may have to use rattle can paint for the stripes.
All I want is a nice smooth glossy white paint job...I used dupil color spray paint before with very good results, and I just fuel proof it by spraying a few coats of urethane over it
Old 02-06-2010, 10:18 PM
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Default RE: painting disaster

Ok,
I went out and bought several cans of Krylon indoor/outdoor paint which i believe is enamel. I used this paint before and it worked out great on wood hulls.
I'm also going to mask off and paint the Atlas "A";s and stripes and apply the Dumas decals that came with the kit, which are the waterslide type.
When all is done I was going to clear over with a good fuelproof clear, probably visit the local Napa store
Old 02-15-2010, 01:23 AM
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Default RE: painting disaster

Well I sanded my hull down, the Klass kote sanded well and I got some good dust from it after the initial shine was broken thru, i used 220 grit paper. Then i shot the hull down with some primer-sealer from Dupi-color, let that dry a few days and today I got around to repainting my hull with Dupi-color bright white which is a acrylic laquer.
heres a few pics of what it looks like now, its not finished, as I still need to paint the deck.
I was too embarrassed to post pics of my failed first try, but if you can imagine the hull with gray primer, sanded smooth, then let a 4 yr old child get hold of it with a can of white paint& a brush then you'l get the picture....

Again absolutely nothing wrong with klass kote's paint, it was that Ihave zero experience mixing paint and using spray equipment. So I went back to doing it the only way I know how.
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:32 AM
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Default RE: painting disaster

Congrats on this time around....looks good! Post more pics as you continue[sm=thumbup.gif]
D
Old 02-15-2010, 01:56 AM
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Default RE: painting disaster

Thanks, I will post more pics after its been finished painting, then again more pics after i get it detailed.
Dupi-colors spray cans have this really cool spray tip that works similar to air powered spray tips, that it sprays out in a fan pattern. makes it easier to use.

The preval sprayer does not, it sprayed out in a cone pattern, it works, however it didnt help me much in this case.

after its been detailed I do plan on shooting the hull down with a known fuel proof clearcoat. I noticed that Lustre coat spray paints & clear are also acrylic laquer. I had the understanding that laquer is NOT fuelproof, is acrylic laquer different, because Lustre coat claims to be fuelproof, and I believe it is.
Regardless, after my boat is finished I do plan on clearcoating it with a known fuelproof clear, either lustercoat or some 2 part deal I've seen online here on the forum.
Old 02-15-2010, 07:23 AM
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Default RE: painting disaster

Wow that hull looks nice like that. Trim colors are really going to make it pop.

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