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Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

Old 02-16-2010, 08:16 PM
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rcwannabee
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Default Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

Hi everyone,

I am considering the building of a boat similar to a Stanley (http://www.stanleyboats.ca/cruiser.html) using some materials I have access to. 0.010" and 0.100" aluminum for skin and forms respectively. I have access to other material sizes as well if necessary (work in a tool shop), but I would like to stay with what I have already.

Anyway, I have researched aluminum brazing and was wondering if anyone has tried this? If so, what did you think?

Has anyone made an all aluminum hull? (did not find one when searching) What were the issues that were encountered? (link to build thread would be great if there is one I missed)

I am thinking 1/12th scale, so the end product would be 24" to 27". Electric power with jet or I/O. Most likley twin drives. I am leaning towards a stand off scale or sport scale (not sure what you refer to it as).

I have not done scratch building, but I have building, metal work, welding, machining, wood working and design experience, so I think with lots of research, patience, followed by possibly lots of trial and error, I will figure something out....oh and hopefully lots of advice from the forums!

Thanks in advance for any advice, info and shared experience!
Old 02-16-2010, 09:33 PM
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Umi_Ryuzuki
 
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

Perhaps you can contact this builder...

http://cnavale.quennetier.free.fr/spip.php?article1

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/for...?topic=16377.0

[8D]

I built up an aluminium barge, but I had a friend TIG weld it.
Old 02-17-2010, 01:30 AM
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Justaddwata
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

I have used Aluminum brazing rods on a number of occasions. Temperature control is CRITICAL as you have to get real close to the melt point of the aluminum to achieve a good bond (allow some pieces to cool and break apart to see where you have full bond and where it is just covering the aluminum). Also the surfaces have to be brushed to ensure you break the oxidized film. I would encourage you to try to braze a few pieces of plate (the more complex joints like a corner or compound corner) - it is easy enough to do a small area - but the more you work - the more heat can build up to a point where the braze will run from areas near where you are working. Using a fine point torch will allow you more control over heat - but it might still be tricky.

TIG would hands down be a better choice as you will also retain the strength of the aluminum (brazing heat will tend to soften any strength gains that extrusion will give the aluminum).
Old 02-17-2010, 03:21 AM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?




Old 02-17-2010, 04:58 AM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?


ORIGINAL: rcwannabee

..........Has anyone made an all aluminum hull? (did not find one when searching) What were the issues that were encountered? (link to build thread would be great if there is one I missed)
I would be very interested to see if you are able to pull this off. No doubt that it CAN be done. My first concerns would be the radio issues that may arise as a result of using a metal for the hull. Would the aluminum shield away any receiving transmissions? I'm sure with careful antenna locating this would be at least minimized. I know all my DJ cables running from high power amplifiers are shielded coax to eliminate interference coming to the speakers. I would think the aluminum hull would have some effect. Will be watching this thread closely...good luck!

Oh, just remembered, there is a member who I think has a current thread with an all aluminum airboat here, I'll have to check.



Old 02-17-2010, 03:22 PM
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rcwannabee
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

ORIGINAL: Dreamin Hemi
"... My first concerns would be the radio issues that may arise as a result of using a metal for the hull...."


[/quote]

I had not really thought about that being an issue.

I hope I am able to pull this off, but just to warn you, I am very slow and I have a tendancy to get sidetracked, so if it happens it will not likely be a rapid process. I have seen a thread on a barge from aluminum, but it was being mig welded and it was thicker material. I may find the 0.010" material is too thin and flexible, but I will have to do some testing. I would like to try the brazing, but it is not cheap to get some rod to test with, you have to purchase 1.5 pounds at $50 (or more).
Old 02-18-2010, 12:16 AM
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Ron Olson
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

I remember there being someone a few years ago that was making aluminum nitro outrigger hydro's. Getting sharp bends would be the trick there. Getting a good signal would be more difficult as you'd want as much of the antenna sticking out as you can. You're going to need a great radio system that will reject as much "noise" as possible from metal vibration.
Old 02-18-2010, 07:43 AM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

as justaddwater said very tricky to braze alloys, tig welding is far better.
i have welded a alloy coke can back togethor before with a tig,they can be very precise
there was a guy on o.s.e i think who did a alloy hull, fairly sure he pop riveted it togethor, will try and find a link
Old 02-18-2010, 07:51 AM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

this is it, amazing hull http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...ad.php?t=11244
Old 02-18-2010, 08:05 AM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?


ORIGINAL: ozzie-crawl

as justaddwater said very tricky to braze alloys, tig welding is far better.
i have welded a alloy coke can back togethor before with a tig,they can be very precise
there was a guy on o.s.e i think who did a alloy hull, fairly sure he pop riveted it togethor, will try and find a link
I don't have access to Tig unfortunately and I was hoping to do it from home. I have seen some videos for brazing that make it look easy, but only with their products. Have any of you seen these? Goggle: alumaloy or HTS2000 or Durafix, they make it look very easy, but that goes against everything I know and/or have heard about aluminum. These videos are what really got me thinking I would be able to pull this off without investing in a Tig welder (although that would be nice). I am considering ordering some and testing it, that is if I can not find a local supply of the same product. I will have to bug the sales guy that comes in to my work (can't believe I never thought of that till now....)

As to the radio....I think a scale CB antenna on the boat could get the antenna out of the hull as much as possible. Maybe I will have to go with a painted wood super structure and mount the receiver in it.....
Old 02-18-2010, 08:07 AM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?


ORIGINAL: ozzie-crawl

this is it, amazing hull http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...ad.php?t=11244
WOW! A little out of my league, but something to aim for, that looks great, I will have to take some time to read that one.
Old 02-18-2010, 09:11 AM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

it maybe worth a shot trying to braze,they can make it look easy but only because of lots of experiance.hell if you know what your doing stainless steel can be brazed to alloy
Old 02-18-2010, 07:49 PM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

Well I have decided to jump in and start laying out plans and prototyping a hull shape. This will be the first time I have made a hull, so it should be interesting. I have been playing with designs on Freeship and I have the basic shape. I have started to cut out formers from construction paper to do a little mock up and I have already started to deviate from the plan.....if I actually do get as far as building something, even just a prototype, I will try to do a build log if anyone is interested.

I will have to decide on construction methods after doing more research and testing, but if the light aluminum does not work, I might try thicker guage and if that does not work I may just have to go for a wood hull untill I can source out a tig welder...

Here is the linesplan, not actually a complete hull because I have not figured out how to do some things (first time using it).

[img][/img]
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:24 PM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

Aluminum Rigger
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:58 PM
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rcwannabee
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

Nice Rigger. How is it all fastened together? I don't see rivets or weld??? Is that an aluminum fuel tank up front?


I have started my prototype! I just cut some construction paper formers and spread them out on some rod I had laying around. I then tried to space it out and put a couple of strips on to simulate the hull sheeting, but that did not work so well. I think I am going to extend the hull out to 27", it is shown in the pictures at around 20" (well with the bow formed it would be about 20"). I have included a picture of some of the material I was thinking of using for the aluminum, it is pretty light - I measured it and it is 0.010" and 0.045".....I am starting to think the 0.010" will be too light, maybe I will use it to make an airplane!

I hope to make some wood formers on the weekend and maybe stringers so I can get a good look at the lines, it just does not seem the same on the computer screen or on paper. I figure I better test the design in wood before I get too far with the aluminum brazing or welding. Any suggestions for the skin for testing purposes, that is, I think I should make the formers and stringers, then sheet it so I can see how it sits in the water.

Oh yeah, I am new to the whole forum thing, but if I turn this in to a build thread, do I need to start a new one? If so I assume there is a specific area, presumably the scale boat area??

Thanks.
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:38 AM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

Daniel
Your rigger is a work of art. First aluminum one I've seen.
D
Old 02-19-2010, 09:09 AM
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mike walker
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

A friend of mine is a welder and is building a springer tug from aluminum he tiged the 1/8 bottom and is using alcor flux core solder made by harris co. and sold by praxair welding supply on the thinner metal. It works very well and flows good even with propane. metal needs to be very clean. If you want any more info I can hook you up with him. good luck hope this helps. mike
Old 02-19-2010, 03:28 PM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

ORIGINAL: mb1387

A friend of mine is a welder and is building a springer tug from aluminum he tiged the 1/8 bottom and is using alcor flux core solder made by harris co. and sold by praxair welding supply on the thinner metal. It works very well and flows good even with propane. metal needs to be very clean. If you want any more info I can hook you up with him. good luck hope this helps. mike
Thanks for the info, I can get praxair product locally so I will have a look in to this. I was intrigued by the alumaloy or HTS2000 as it does not use flux, but I have not had a chance to see if I can get it locally.
Old 02-20-2010, 05:51 PM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

I have spent some time modifying the linespan in FreeShip and then I exported it to CAD for drawing formers and printable templates.

Ihave been offered a brazing kit from a friend (his Dad got it at a garage sale, never used itandjust gave it to him and he does not want it....so it sounds like it is mine for the taking!) and I hope to test it this weekend if I can get away from the kids long enough!

Here is the linespan as a JPG.

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Old 03-06-2010, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

Tried the aluminum brazing out on some of the 0.010" thick material, very difficult to keep the material still and not deform it. Also very easy to melt it. I did not have any fire brick to put it on, which would likely make it more difficult. I will have to use thicker material for sure to braze and even just as the skin regardless of what bonding method I use. I figured the 0.010" material would be on the light side, but this is way too light. Next test will be with the heavier aluminum (0.035 or .045" forget which) and a fire brick to work on.
Old 11-30-2010, 11:44 PM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?

this is a guy that makes a mono hull out of Aluminum here in Utah.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218...pid=28&search=
Old 12-01-2010, 06:52 AM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?


ORIGINAL: leebart121

this is a guy that makes a mono hull out of Aluminum here in Utah.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218...pid=28&search=
Same guy here: http://www.bigalboats.com/ He's using JB Weld to hold them together.
Old 12-01-2010, 10:12 AM
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Default RE: Aluminum Hull? Aluminum Brazing?


[quote]ORIGINAL: rcwannabee



Hello I just got onto this forum and saw that a few guys had given refference To our aluminum Mono... www.bigalboats.com


The aluminum hull has been a super fun and challenging hull to build, we would love to help if you have any questions

you can contact me at [email protected]

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