dee_the_narcotic

hello all...

ive been seriously looking at the savage xl 5.9 but have heard many bad things about the k5.9 engine that comes in it. what exactly is bad about this engine? i love everything about this truck but if the stock engine is s*** im not going to buy it for i like to keep my models as stock as possible.

i would prefer responses from people that have experience with the engine but any opinions are welcome.

thanks in advance and happy bashing!

wwit

Problem with the 5,9 is that is difficult to get a good consistent tune and then stay that way. Its very finicky to air conditions such as ambient temperature and dew point levels. And it LOVES fuel. Compared to the fuel hungry 4.6, the 5.9 guzzles the fuel.

But when its on, its ON. But never seems to stay that way for long.

A very good friend and his room mate have Savages. And too much money and time on their hands when the paving season stops for winter. They both started with RTR. Then the kit version. Then on a constant back and forth one up-ing on who could go bigger and better, they eventually ended up with the 5.9 XL. Both of them are experienced tuners and know their stuff and neither of them could get a handle on the 5.9. Out of shear frustration, they both ended up putting their best 4.6 engines in the XL and all was good again in their RC world.

I've been contemplating a Savage as a winter project myself. I like the size of the XL, but for reasons above, I don't want the 5.9. But there are options. Buy the 4.6 kit version and upgrade the chassis and axle parts to make my own XL. This way seems logical too me as I already have a good radio and extra receiver kicking around. And the kit comes with many upgrade goodies that the RTR doesn't. And there are some good HD aftermarket chassis plates available. OR option #2 would be get the RTR 5.9, remove the engine and sell it on ebay. The 5.9 engine gets top dollar from the chops shops from buyers who don't do their research and just buy the alleged 'bigger and better' 5.9. 4.6 can be had for @ $50 less, so make a little profit, or use the money and drop in a really nice OS with the roto-start.

dee_the_narcotic

thanks for the reply, it was really helpful. how easy would it be to sell the 5.9 on ebay? how much could i get for it? if im going to pull the engine and sell it im gonna put an lrp.30 with a 086 pipe. thats the way i look at it. is the xl 5.9 a better truck than the x 4.6?

wwit

Selling on ebay is really simple. If you don't already have an account, then you need to create an Ebay and Paypal account. You will want to connect the Paypal to a bank account for them to be able to transfer your money. But just remember, both take a cut when you sell something. It averages @ 10% for a personal non-commercial account.

One of my favorite ebay chop shops is selling the 5.9 for @ $180.00 US dollars shipped basic USPS ground. Its listed with the carb and Roto Start, but no flywheel or clutch. I have found 95% of the time when I need a factory part, his price is the most competitive. So if you did a Buy Now fixed price shipped at @ $165/170ish it should sell reasonable quick. Just make sure to package it well for shipping as the crankshaft can be easily damaged. When I've shipped nitro engines in the past, I've taken small chunk of Styrofoam, poked a hole in it and then stuck that on the driveshaft before bubble wrapping and double boxing.

Is the 5.9 truck better than the 4.6 model? IMHO not at all. Its bigger. So lots longer and wider and handles differently. Being longer and wider it can be set up closer to a lower truggy stance which is more stabile. As far as parts are concerned, the kit SS 4.6 comes with the most trick parts from the factory. But you do have to add you own radio system, servo's and a few other things to it. Either the RTR or kit 4.6 can be converted into the 5.9 size. Just a matter of collecting the right parts and installing them. I like the over all large size of the 5.9 RTR myself. But really opinions vary a lot from owners of both.

dee_the_narcotic

thanks for the reply "wwit"

i think what im gonna do is get the rtr xl 5.9 and ditch the engine. what engine would you guys recommend for that beast? something in the $200 price range... also which pipe performs better? the 053 or the 086?

thanks again

wwit

Personally I like the Stock 4.6 engine. They take a good tune and run fairly well for the money. But If I was to drop in a new aftermarket engine, Id look at the OS 30VG which a direct drop in replacement for the 4.6. Its got plenty of grunt to it. Extremely tunable. And is made to work with heavy RC's that big blocks were made for, like you find with MT's. A little more money, but a real upgrade. LRP is in the budget you mentioned, but I'm not 100% sold on them yet. Seems to be a lot of 'drink the kool-aid' sales pitch's going on out there among the nitro related forums. But I'm skeptical.

And for a pipe, again because this is a heavy MT pushing big fat hairy heavy tires...usually, you want a low to mid range pipe. So the 053 would be the better of those 2 for that. If it was a light weight race buggy rolling on smaller light weight tire/wheels in a race situation where your always WOT and need high RPMs then the 086 would be the better pick.

dee_the_narcotic

hmm... i think im gonna just go for the savage x 4.6 and use the extra money for upgrades. the x 4.6 with a 086 pipe seems perfect to me because i do a lot of speed runs. i live in buffalo ny so theres a lot of roads and not a huge amount of bashing areas. besides a wheelie bar of course, what upgrades would you suggest for the x 4.6? would i be better off with the 053 even though i would prefer top end? after more research and finding out how reliable the 4.6 is for a rtr engine i have been steered away from the xl 5.9 until i get more money later to customize it more. this hobby is breaking the bank for me but i fell in love so thats the price i gotta pay i guess. lol

wwit

Oh okay, I see where your headed with this. If speed runs is what you want to do, then the 086 would be the better bet for that. And in this case, if your primarily going to do street and parking lot driving, then the regular X will be just fine for that. No need to spend the extra money on the XL where other than the 'go big' factor, there wont be much of an advantage.

For mods, keep it simple. Wheelie bar probably the only 'bolt on' you need. If this was my plan, I'd lower the stance with either shock limiters and run softer springs. Get myself a set of Proline 3.8 Road Rage tires and some 1/2" offset Desperado wheels. Those tires love asphalt and the Desperado's will widen the stance and give you stability. It will already have a 3 piece clutch in it, so your good to go there. But you may want to up the pinion a couple teeth to start. That should give you a fairly good starting point. Avoid too much aluminum bling. Aluminum just adds weight and for speed runs, not much else.

As far as dependability and overall longevity a proper break in is key. My method is running the engine for at least 2-3 tanks just sitting on a stand at a rich idle. Keep an eye on temps. It may struggle to stay running and keep a few extra plugs on hand as you may foul a few. Let the engine cool off between tanks and set the piston to BDC. After 2/3 tanks, go ahead and run it and start slowly leaning it out over the next few tanks, just buzzing around at slow speed. Maybe just hitting WOT a couple short pulls. You will want to have at least a quart of fuel run thru it before getting into fully tuning it.

dee_the_narcotic

thank you so much for the reply! this is the exact info i have needed for a long time. ive never been able to find s*** on "street demon" savage builds on any forums. i had a jato 3.3 which was a beast on the pavement but i got sick of the PITA 3.3 engine... after selling that i got a nitro 4 tec rolling chassis and dropped a os 18 i think it was in it? that car was retarded fast but with the roads in my city (since it snows and freezes it tears the roads to shreds from the ice expanding) it would flip and roll constantly.

now for more questions... do the desperado's need a hub conversion to fit on the savage? what springs would you recommend? i never really liked the idea of the shock limiters with the fuel tubing in the shock body. lastly, how much of a difference will sway bars make and do you recommend them?

by the way ill never put aluminum bling on any of my models. i find it to be a waste of money considering it weighs it down and aluminum parts arnt as durable as plastic. also... plastic either breaks or flexes on a impact, aluminum bends and is a wallet killer to replace it. also i take it you were referring to the clutch bell when you said pinion. im not a electric guy, ive never even owned one, so i dont use that term

i know i keep thanking you over and over but really, thanks again so much. you pretty much gave me the info ive been looking for for almost a year. no one seems to find an on road savage useful i guess. when people talk about on road everyone always tells them to get a kyosho inferno gt2 or a ofna dm one.

wwit

Hey your welcome, I'm happy to help.

Haha, to much electric vs nitro for me some days. I did mean Clutch bell, not pinion.

I don't believe you would have to do the 17mm hub conversion to run the Desperado's. The Savage X uses 17mm adapters and flange nut, so I cant imagine them not working with the 17mm Desperado wheel. Some Savage owners do "upgrade" to the 17mm conversion which is beefier. But mainly its just a durability upgrade as some have snapped the OEM axles. Large heavy MT wheel/tires combined with sky shot launches and power on landings will break axles. Oh, And the wheels I'm referring too are 3.8's. And I did check on Prolines site, and they list them as fitting the 17mm Savage.

One slight problem with Savage springs, is that most of what HPI offers are heavier rate. The Silver #86550 take quite a rate drop, making them really soft by comparison. Biggest issue I see would be the length of the shocks. If interior limiting doesn't work for you, then you might want to start comparing shock lengths and get something shorter in length. This would be a far better way to lower the truck into a stance suited for asphalt. You want to sort of be where the A-arms are fairly flat or parallel with the road surface as a starting point. The OEM shocks use a good amount of spacers already. Softer springs may require even more spacers and just isn't a good set up for what you want to do.

HPI does offer a sway bar kit for the Savage. And for road use, I would highly recommend it. The kit come with a 2 different firmness for both the front and rear. I cant say which would be best for your situation. But easy enough to change them out and experiment until you hit the magic combination.

I'm just wondering if you have ever considered the HPI 4.6 Trophy Truggy instead of the Savage? Its already wider than the Savage. Is 1" longer wheelbase, putting it roughly between the X and XL in length. Far lower COG and IMHO would make for a far better asphalt truck then the Savage will be, without having to do as much to convert it. The TT does come outfitted with 17mm hex's so same tire and wheel combo would apply. Already has sway bars on it. Same 4.6 engine as the Savage, but in pull start form. A roto start can be installed if you prefer. I recently bought a D8T for off road bashing and am thinking of putting the Road Rage tires on my TT for road use. Its a little bit cheaper than the Savage also. And I sold my stock tire/wheels that I took off new and got $50 profit on those from ebay buyer to put back into the TT. Just a thought.

Good to see that you aren't one of the 'drink the kool-aid' aluminum junkies. It has many practical uses on RC's, but most of it is just wasted $$$$$Bling and $$$$$Cha-Ching!!

dee_the_narcotic

hmm... i see your point about the troghy truggy, my main issue with that is i like the 2 speed and part of nitro for me is hearing it shift. it adds that extra fun factor for me, but i dont need a 2 or 3 speed if i would be better off getting the truggy. you seen to really know your stuff so if you recommend the truggy over the savage i might go that route. what is the top speed on the truggy? im going to do some research on it now... i didnt expect it too take that many changes to make the savage better on the road.

dee_the_narcotic

a better question would be how big of a difference in speed are the 2 models bow stock? which one has better acceleration? which one has better top speed? i know the truggy handles like a dream.

wwit

Out of the box, I don't believe either the TT or Savage will hit 35 to 40 mph tops. The TT will get there quicker. But the Savage is no slouch by any sense either. The 2 speed helps with that. There is a reason why you typically see 2 or 3 speed transmissions in MT's. They really need help getting the heavier mass rolling on usually larger and heavier tires. Add weight to the TT to equal the Savage and stick 6.5" MT tires on it and it will barely get out of its own way. So as far as the transmission or not, between the TT or Savage, its a trade off. Either will do the trick, but they do it differently. And no, I don't believe that there is anyway to install the Savage tranny into the TT. Far smarter than me have tried and failed...lol. That would be ideal if possible. Something to check out would be youtube and do search's for each model with "speed run" in the search. This should get you seeing what the difference's appear to be.

dee_the_narcotic

after research and a lot of youtube videos im definitely going with the savage, the TT just isnt my cup of tea. last question, hopefully besides a using higher nitro percentage, how would i improve the top speed on the savage? i know that the 086 pipe will help but anything else? what gear combo would you suggest? since the 4.6 has so much torque im not very concerned on losing some bottom end to make it faster. top speed is big thing for me. the higher the better.

wwit

Yeah after a little thinking about it, the one disadvantage of trying to make a speed run Truggy, is its limited by available gearing. The TT like most of them is intended to be used as a short burst corner to corner type vehicle and with its light weight it can accelerate very quickly and have good manners on the ground or in the air. But for where your headed the Savage would probably be the better bet for high speed passes.

The Savage has lots of clutch bells available to work with. There is the 3 speed transmission with optional High Speed 3rd gear available to you. Out of the box, on street tires, you could probably go up at least 3 teeth on the bell. For tires Proline Road Rage are really good and they do make a MT size large wide tire. They have an 1/8 buggy sized available that isn't quite as tall and @ 1/2 the width. A lighter tire like the 1/8 buggy size is easier to turn than the heavier MT, but IMHO wont look right on the MT...kind of drops the cool look.

From there, you should have a good starting point to work from. Speed is all about FAST!!! As in How Fast do you want to go? Or How Fast can you spend MONEY????

slskn

My Feedback: (4)

. Can you put a 4.6 engine in a xl frame without modifications??

D3MON

should be able to, for the most part big blocks are big blocks, (there are a few exceptions though, including the TT 8.0/ 0.50 engine. its a reworked helicopter engine, and engines such as the O.S. .21 TM, as it is a small block case with a big block engine.
you might have to swap gearing a bit as the 4.6 is a little less on the HP end, so gear it down, bump down the CB a tooth or two, or increase the spur size a tooth or two.

slskn

My Feedback: (4)

Ok thanks just really needed a new carb, putting a 4.6 carb on the 5.9

D3MON

have you test fit the carb from the 4.6 to the 5.9? some engines can use different carbs. diameter etc.

slskn

My Feedback: (4)

I ordered this carburetor for the 4.6 when I got it the barrel was slightly smaller doesn't fit the K5.9K5.9, but I did find the HPI carburetor on eBay finally I got it coming

slskn

My Feedback: (4)

What what I meant to say was I needed a carburetor for the K 5.9 so I ordered HPI carburetor 4.6 I was told it would work but when I got carburetor from eBay I founded it does not fit the K5.9 the intake barrel on the carburetor is smaller diameter than the 5.9 intake

D3MON

yup, bigger engine needs more air, more air needs a bigger barrel to receive it. there are some engines that can fit other carbs, but its not all that common. the 4.6 is a .28 sized engine the 5.9 is a weird .36.
hope you get it running soon!

slskn

My Feedback: (4)

yup!! got a brand new K 5.9 carb coming, so should be up and running, soon as it gets here👍🏻