Originally Posted by supertib

IMO if a person is going to offer tuning advice they need to be able to produce some videos showing their gear running with a proper tune under load......IMO its much easier to type words on a forum and act like a expert then it is to properly tune a engine....The easiest way for me to tell where a persons skill level is is for me to watch a video of their gear...Video doesn't lie... if a person cannot produce a video of a properly tuned engine then I do not feel they have any grounds to be offering tuning advice.... these days with everyone owning camera phones there is no excuse not to be able to create a video..... Over the years many have called me out and criticized my approach to these forums, yet when I challenge all my detractors to produce a video showing their skills not a single one has been willing to back their words and show a video...meanwhile I have produced over 200 videos showing properly tuned engines doing both bashing and racing......IMO video doesn't lie words do....

Originally Posted by Nitrovein

I never like the sound when listning on a video, my engines sounds extremely lean/erratic on video.
But it might be my phone. Got a new phone now, might be better...

Originally Posted by supertib

I wouldn't have any issues with any of this if it wasn't for how badly myself and others were treated at some of these forums...... some of these guys who ran these forums not only offered bad advice they also trolled anyone who dared contradict their ideas..... Even if their initial intent was to help people their final concern ended up being the the preservation of their image , their ego would not let them step aside when they should have...I am not the only modder to experience this either, hell many of the racers have too..this is why none of them want to post on the basher forums any more.. it seems anyone with any advanced experience gets run off off the forum by the trolls... which is really sad because the guys who have the most to offer the novices get runoff by the wannabe's who are simply there fulfilling their ego's needs instead of helping like they should be..

Originally Posted by Nitrovein

I agree that there would be a larger crowd running nitro if it wasn't for bad advises on the internet.
It's not only on International forums the problem exist...

If I had a dollar every time I heard someone at the race track saying I will blow up my engine due to lean settings, I could afford racing!
(I did blow up an engine this summer, why I still don't know...)

I've met both ends of the scale on the race track, and although it can take some time for people to realize who they should listen to, they soon see it on the track. Unfortunately, many times it's the loud mouth that knows little, that "helps out".

I saw the same thing racing full scale cars. But after a couple of races I had people coming to me for their next engine.

When it comes to; put up or shut up, the race track is great at sorting out who's got it right! (if you don't own a dyno... )

Originally Posted by supertib

Idle down tells all............if the engines idle hangs in any way shape or form it is not tuned correctly......chances are if its tuned on the starterbox its not tuned correctly...if the engine needs to be tuned every day its run its not tuned correctly............. it is no coincidence that the best running engine you ever owned is also the one you had to tune on the least ! you being just a generalized term, not meaning you personally LOL when I tune someones engine at the track they can usually go many weeks without touching it ...while most others can't get a engine to be stable throughout a a single day and believe a nitro needs to be tuned every time it is run.....

Originally Posted by supertib

its funny but it all comes down to idle gap........ 99.999999 % of tuning guides recommend a 1mm idle gap........ all the issues start right here.......as a 1mm gap is too big and it creates a impossible tuning scenario......tens of thousands of nitro engines were needlessly sealed due to these so called phantom air leaks ( AKA idle gap too big LOL ) ... thousands have given up on nitro simply because no tuning guide mentioned anything about how critical the idle gap is an how critical the linkage setup was... And instead of having people listen to idle speed to determine mixture they recommend pinching the fuel line LOL ! thousands have pulled out their hair trying to tune off these guides and thousands have failed........ any time anyone tries to come in and help the trolls chase them away........... At the end of the day once someone understands idle speed and idle gap the rest of the tuning comes really easily.... these engines are actually quite easy to tune once they have the proper idle gap and working linkage....... how many times have you seen the set stopper right on the servo arm ? resulting in a hanging idle that everyone assumes is a lean LSN ? pretty much 90% of engines i tune at the track have this issue, everyone builds their linkage with zero deadband in it

Originally Posted by Nitrovein

I never like the sound when listning on a video, my engines sounds extremely lean/erratic on video.
But it might be my phone. Got a new phone now, might be better...

Originally Posted by Nitrovein

I was one of people changing tune often when I got back in to the hobby, until I tuned it when fully heat soaked, then it was stable and an hour if that was all it needed from spring to autumn. It's by mistakes that we learn, I have made many! lol
I do still find it difficult tuning with a hot glow plug, that I do admit! P3 plug seem to be the go-to plug for everyone...
It might be the setup regarding compression an squish velocity that makes it difficult, I like Picco P6TH in all engines.

Originally Posted by 1QwkSport2.5r

I agree that digitized recordings do not reflect the sound properly. A video gives a good idea of how something sounds, but I wouldn't take that as bonafide proof of ones capability to tune an engine. I've taken videos with several different devices and the engine sounded different on each device. I can see a video "proving" ones worth if a guy can afford ridiculously high quality and expensive HD sound equipment. The real money shot is using a tachometer to read engine rpm IMO. Going by sound is a good ball-park method, but a tachometer gives legit information that can be repeated. There isn't much voodoo involved with tuning a 2-needle carburetor. The way I go about it is essentially A) smallest idle gap possible (usually .5-.75mm), B) idle mixture set to give a reliable idle and smooth/clean transition from a 15-20sec standstill, and C) main needle set to peak power then backed off a tick or two richer. I always start with the main needle to get it set to peak before messing with the idle unless the engine won't idle on its own.

Neal - do you have a general tuning guide on your site or something? I'd like to compare notes.

Originally Posted by supertib

I have been around a long time and to date have met next to zero bashers who I feel knows how to properly tune ( of course there are a few ) .... I have watched hundreds if not thousands of basher videos and almost never do I hear a properly tuned engine.. almost every one is high idling and going thermal......I have read every online tuning guide written on the basher forums and almost none of them are proper and accurate....... every basher forum recommends sealing engines, blowing air under water and pinching the fuel line to test mixture..... every forums local hot shoe also preaches these same ideas..........its a bad scene.....owning a track for 5 years I have seen all sorts of guys come and go and never did anyone ever show up with any clue about tuning....sadly a huge amount of bad information has been passed along as gospel and it has badly damaged the nitro hobby.............

And yes lots of bad tuners in racing too LOL ! but there are also plenty of very skilled tuners... pretty much at every track you can find at least a few guys who really know their stuff... I personally know dozens if not hundreds of very skilled tuners who race , hell I have coached quite a few of them myself LOL ! IMO racing exposes you to whats actually out there and for most bashers its a humbling and eye opening experience but a very worthwhile experience .. Being able to learn from such a rich knowledge base is not anything you can find if all you do is bash.. even just going to the track on a practice day just to meet some of the locals and to see first hand whats out there is worth it..... Just go read some of the stuff posted on the basher forums as gospel and then tell me if those people were qualified to be the guru's that guide the next generation of nitro heads ?

Originally Posted by supertib

Pretty much any reasonable video is all I need.... I can tell everything in only a few minutes.... over the years I have had to help hundreds of guys tune over the phone which has horrible sound quality compared to a live video......Not only can I get acoustics from a video I can also see the type of driving the person does.....

I have a tuning guide....fairly similar to what you describe.... i just focus heavily on idle speed, idle down and making sure the linkage and idle gap are proper as these are always the major areas of issue.....

Also I have shot video on multiple devices... from my semi profesional DSLR, my HD camcorder, to my $90.00 cannon point and shoot, wife's cel phone, old school tape recorder style video camera....... just like your own voice, everything sounds different on video ! but a bad tune is still a bad tune and it shows up clear as day on a video, and a proper tune is never going to be masked by a video, if the tune is proper it will show proper on the video, of that i am sure............ for me video is more about engine rhythm and timing then it is about the tone of the exhaust....

Originally Posted by Anthoop

You made many posts since I last looked...I will just reply to this one.

The thing that annoys so many people Neal, is that in your mind there are two sets of RC car runners...those who race and those who do not...one set knows all and the other knows nothing....if you are in a set then you are tarred with that brush no matter ( in your mind).

I can only presume it is because you started with running Traxxas and got into that mentality where you need to be "one up" on the next guy?
Funny that you say you do not have a problem with people on the "racers" forum....sure I can name a few very well respected guys that might give a lol there....

Sure there are forums that offer bad advice ( yes I have seen so much rubbish from a certain nut eater) and even posters getting things wrong ( I would have to manually type links so please do not ask...).....but this is the internet....you may be conversing with anyone.
Of course there are more people running little engines that will never even see a track than those that are regulars at the track, buying all that better new gear....but they will all have an opinion.....what is that smell?
Coffee?

Originally Posted by Nitrovein

I used to shoot a lot of videos before, I watched them to see chassi reaction etc. But I couldn't tune after a video, it would run to rich for my liking.
I generally run them a couple of hours out from a lean bog, but it's very dependent on fuel also. Tried O'Donnell and it needed a very rich setting and conservative setup on the head, least favorit fuel I've tried. With my own mix it can take anything I throw at it!
With the work you do it's no wonder you can tune to perfection and as you say, over the phone. I have to try that some time!

Originally Posted by cbaker65

I shoot a vid every now & then ,only to show that my stuff is still alive & kickin ,an also to boost moral among friends.
I will be the first to step up an tell you that I don't tune very well an my stuff isn't in tune.They are already too fast to control!

However ,I do enjoy reading up on your Guy's post!..

Originally Posted by Nitrovein

As you can see, both I and supertib is quite humble and sharing in our experience.
You can't learn anything if you already think you know everything, but as you learn you take things to the next level, and so on... A good starting point is to visit a race track and talk to the guys running there.

Originally Posted by cbaker65

I'm always willing to learn that's why I'm still here!
But not to take it to the next level as I have no desire to race.Im in it for the love of the hobby an not the competitive side of it!

Originally Posted by Anthoop

You made many posts since I last looked...I will just reply to this one.

The thing that annoys so many people Neal, is that in your mind there are two sets of RC car runners...those who race and those who do not...one set knows all and the other knows nothing....if you are in a set then you are tarred with that brush no matter ( in your mind).

I can only presume it is because you started with running Traxxas and got into that mentality where you need to be "one up" on the next guy?
Funny that you say you do not have a problem with people on the "racers" forum....sure I can name a few very well respected guys that might give a lol there....

Sure there are forums that offer bad advice ( yes I have seen so much rubbish from a certain nut eater) and even posters getting things wrong ( I would have to manually type links so please do not ask...).....but this is the internet....you may be conversing with anyone.
Of course there are more people running little engines that will never even see a track than those that are regulars at the track, buying all that better new gear....but they will all have an opinion.....what is that smell?
Coffee?

Originally Posted by Nitrovein

The next level doesn't need to be racing! Expanding the knowledge is an psychological drive for an intellectual mind, sometimes it's about the journey. Don't you agree? Or is it all about already having the answers for you? Just curious...

Originally Posted by supertib

There are skills a person learns from racing that are impossible to acquire by bashing alone..and due to head to head competition every racer continually improves as they are being driven too by the nature of competition..... Bashers tend to stagnate thinking they have already learned all there is to learn..i mean look at the crappy attitude you have given me multiple times now, how many accurate posts of mine you have heckled because you thought you knew better ? i remember you guys all jumping on me when I made a post about not needing to seal engines.. all you guys insisted gooping with silicone and 1 mm idle gaps were proper ( When its absolute malarky ) At the end of the day I would teach you a entirely new world of nitro but your too dam closed minded to even attempt to learn something new....

And I would challenge you to find any known racer anywhere who would be willing to publicly go head to head with me about nitro engine knowledge, most of them know better already LOL !

Originally Posted by Anthoop

Why do you insist on categorising people....and presuming you know me?

I used to race....about thirty years ago.....so in your mind am I a pro?


You imply that anyone running at a track has head to head competition......so you have to be at a "track" to set up some competition....is it not possible that even a lone runner could make improvements just by setting down some markers and challenging themself?

What is wrong with sealing a backplate or carb....or starting with a 1mm idle gap?

Sure the sealant is mostly not ever needed but use the correct amount and do it properly and it will not have adverse effects.....and if you can not tune a LSN in conjunction with the gap by now Neal...pfft...they work together....I notice you were recommending a certain sealant and also pumping gap measurements....all change soon?

You are challenging me to find a "racer" that would go head to head about engines...? Monty still races right, how about Ron? How about non racers that have been around longer than you....how many wince at your attitude?

Originally Posted by 1QwkSport2.5r

I think that everyone can learn something from another... Some people only bash, others race. I'd bet almost anything that a LOT of racers started out as bashers.. I don't see racers as being better or worse in any way than a basher.. They just have a different approach to the hobby than a basher. I fly planes, bash cars and trucks, and I run a bunch of airboats. My fast airboats are running $300-500 engines entirely made on a CNC running faster than most of my cars. I'll tell you this - I became a far better car engine tuner after running aircraft engines for awhile. They behave very much the same as a car engine - if the idle mixture is too lean, the idle hangs. On my piped engines, if the idle mixture is too lean, it will blow a plug when it comes off the pipe. If you lean the high end past peak, it's not uncommon to blow a plug. Car engines aren't timed as high as many pipe-timed aircraft engines - so they tend not to blow plugs as much... But many of the same rules apply.

Pictured is a true tuned pipe and a 9cc CNC milled Jett engine. 180* exhaust timing and it has a chromed aluminum cylinder liner. This engine makes about 3HP at 19,000rpm. I've asked Dub Jett if he would do a custom car engine for me, but the demand isn't there to justify setting the tooling to do the work. The cost would be very high as well.

Originally Posted by 1QwkSport2.5r

Thanks... It's a pretty sick engine. I have a smaller one too - a .35. They're almost a half ounce lighter with the aluminum liner than they are with the brass liner. I'm surprised the top tier racing RC car engines don't use aluminum liners. The chromed aluminum liners literally never wear out. They can just fit a new piston to the liner. The brass liners will wear out - well, actually the heat cycling of the brass bell-mouths the bottom of the liner over time. The proper brass alloy is critical for engine longevity.

This one has the AAC upgrade too. This one was so tight when I got it, it took about a half gallon of fuel before it would loosen up enough to use my electric starter on it. It squeaked when running for a quart of fuel. Tight is good - by the time your engine loses its pinch, it's already losing power.