Meshing Use Paper or not
03-05-2013, 01:16 PM
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Meshing Use Paper or not
Let me first say that I'm not the most apt at rebuilding, though I'm learning more as I go. I burned up the gears on my tranny about a year ago on my Smartech. I purchased another one and installed it. Took it for a spin and noticed that it wouldn't come out of 2d gear. Finally got around to wanting to get it right when I noticed that the gear meshing didn't seem correct. When I would roll her backwards, the gears would move correctly. When I would roll her forward, nothing.
I went on line trying to find out how to get a correct mesh for a 2 speed tranny (electrics are easy. one gear, use paper and mesh) but on a two gear, wasn't sure if you had to mesh both or just one. While searching, I found an article that kind of struck me as strange:
Because I don't beleive "everything" I read on the web, I decided to write to Robinson Racing and ask for clarification:
Here is what I received as a reply:
I went on line trying to find out how to get a correct mesh for a 2 speed tranny (electrics are easy. one gear, use paper and mesh) but on a two gear, wasn't sure if you had to mesh both or just one. While searching, I found an article that kind of struck me as strange:
Ever hear of the old trick of using a piece of paper in between the gears to properly set gear mesh? Guess what? That’s wrong. Gearing expert Rob Robinson explains that using the paper method provides far more backlash (play or “wiggle space&rdquo
between the gears than is needed. This can lead to increased wear and easily stripped gears due to the reduced surface areas making contact with the excessive backlash. Still have a hard time believing the paper trick is wrong? Think about the gear mesh of the gears inside the transmission of a vehicle such as Team Associated B4.1. The internal gears are set with proper mesh. Rob further explains that properly build gears actually have built-in clearance. That is to say, even if you pressed the gears together s tight as possible, the teeth wouldn’t bottom out on the inside or root out diameter of the gear. So don’t use the paper to set gear mesh unless a “blind” installation absolutely requires it, and make sure you check the mesh at a few points on the spur gear.
between the gears than is needed. This can lead to increased wear and easily stripped gears due to the reduced surface areas making contact with the excessive backlash. Still have a hard time believing the paper trick is wrong? Think about the gear mesh of the gears inside the transmission of a vehicle such as Team Associated B4.1. The internal gears are set with proper mesh. Rob further explains that properly build gears actually have built-in clearance. That is to say, even if you pressed the gears together s tight as possible, the teeth wouldn’t bottom out on the inside or root out diameter of the gear. So don’t use the paper to set gear mesh unless a “blind” installation absolutely requires it, and make sure you check the mesh at a few points on the spur gear.Because I don't beleive "everything" I read on the web, I decided to write to Robinson Racing and ask for clarification:
I looked on your website to verify this claim and could find nothing relating to this. Could you verify the validity or falsehood of this statement. Secondly, do you know the proper way to set the gear mesh on a two speed tranny.
Here is what I received as a reply:
Hello,
\Set the gear mesh as tight as possible without any binding of gears.
you should not feel any backlash between the two gears.
The clearance needed is built into the gears already.
This will help make all your gears last much longer.
This would apply to a 2 speed also.
RRP
Normally, I would have just gone with this, as this is one of the Major manufacturers of gear in the RC world, but I happen to be looking at the Traxxas Funny Car for S&G and Page 19 of their Funny Car Manual is a picture of a strip of paper setting the gear mesh.
I know of lot of you have been building cars and setting gears for more time than I can imagine, so I'm asking who is right here. I've read horror stories about gears melting and unfortunately, I don't have the funds to continually purchase gears everytime I melt or strip one.
You thoughts!
Normally, I would have just gone with this, as this is one of the Major manufacturers of gear in the RC world, but I happen to be looking at the Traxxas Funny Car for S&G and Page 19 of their Funny Car Manual is a picture of a strip of paper setting the gear mesh.
I know of lot of you have been building cars and setting gears for more time than I can imagine, so I'm asking who is right here. I've read horror stories about gears melting and unfortunately, I don't have the funds to continually purchase gears everytime I melt or strip one.
You thoughts!
03-05-2013, 01:40 PM
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RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
Personally I go by sight or feel. I set the mesh so I can just barely feel or see any play at all.
Imo it's ok to set the mesh with paper for coarser gears like 32 pitch.
Imo it's ok to set the mesh with paper for coarser gears like 32 pitch.
03-05-2013, 01:57 PM
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RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
I just go by feel as well. I'll set it, hold the clutch bell and try to wiggle the spur. I look for no play and free spinning gears.
03-05-2013, 02:03 PM
#4
RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
I go by sight, unless the mesh is not easy to see. In those cases, I use paper. Printer paper, doubled up usually works.
If the paper is to thin, then the mesh will be to tight, you will no right away as the gears will rub and not turn freely. If that happens, double up (or even tripple up) whatever paper you are using.
If the paper is to thin, then the mesh will be to tight, you will no right away as the gears will rub and not turn freely. If that happens, double up (or even tripple up) whatever paper you are using.
03-05-2013, 04:40 PM
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RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
After reading the reply from Robinson Racing, I tried what most of you have tried. I adjusted by feel and sight. When I did this, and started locking down the motor, the gears sounded like they meshed correctly. When I rolled the car, the gears sounded as sweet as my RS4 EVO.
Newbies follow all of the rules so that they can learn. Most forums tell you to use paper. There's a video by one of the Online SuperStores and they couldn't stop stating how important it was to use paper and how it should look as a way to set your gears.
How does a newbie know when to listen to the masses and when not to. I think many get frustrated and give up.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad to see that I haven't gone off the deep end and that I've learned one of rc's well kept secrets.
03-05-2013, 05:12 PM
#7
RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
ORIGINAL: gregoryt
After reading the reply from Robinson Racing, I tried what most of you have tried. I adjusted by feel and sight. When I did this, and started locking down the motor, the gears sounded like they meshed correctly. When I rolled the car, the gears sounded as sweet as my RS4 EVO.
After reading the reply from Robinson Racing, I tried what most of you have tried. I adjusted by feel and sight. When I did this, and started locking down the motor, the gears sounded like they meshed correctly. When I rolled the car, the gears sounded as sweet as my RS4 EVO.
Newbies follow all of the rules so that they can learn. Most forums tell you to use paper. There's a video by one of the Online SuperStores and they couldn't stop stating how important it was to use paper and how it should look as a way to set your gears.
How does a newbie know when to listen to the masses and when not to. I think many get frustrated and give up.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad to see that I haven't gone off the deep end and that I've learned one of rc's well kept secrets.
Paper helps newbs to get the tightest mesh without binding or being too tight.
Basically, you could mesh 1 time with paper. If the gears roll free, inspect them as to how the teeth look together. Remember how it looks/feels/sounds and you can go by that next time.
Without the paper method, there is a chance a newb will allow to much space between the gears. That will cause a stripped gear down the road.
having the gears too tight on the other hand will put strain on the motor causing it to heat up. Possibly to the point of ruining the motor.
A brushed RC model should only have a touch of drag when you roll it on the floor. Hardly any drag. A brushless model should have no noticable drag.
03-05-2013, 05:21 PM
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RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
I have always used a 1/4 inch wide strip of printer paper about 2 inches long. It has never failed me in the 12 years I have been in the hobby for getting a perfect mesh.
I have tried the feel method before and never had good success either too tight or too loose or spent too much time fiddling around to get it right because the Electric motors and Nitro Engines when I tighten them down move a just little more when I torque down the bolts.
The paper method keeps the mesh and does not allow for this movement. I personally do not like to fiddle around with getting my gears meshed.
Then I feel it out to see if it worked and 90% of the time I do not have to mesh the gears more than once.
Suggestion for you as a newbie is try the different ideas people have on the way they do things and see if their method will work for you. If not their are always expert videos on You Tube or How To's in the R/C Hobby Blogs.
I have tried the feel method before and never had good success either too tight or too loose or spent too much time fiddling around to get it right because the Electric motors and Nitro Engines when I tighten them down move a just little more when I torque down the bolts.
The paper method keeps the mesh and does not allow for this movement. I personally do not like to fiddle around with getting my gears meshed.
Then I feel it out to see if it worked and 90% of the time I do not have to mesh the gears more than once.
Suggestion for you as a newbie is try the different ideas people have on the way they do things and see if their method will work for you. If not their are always expert videos on You Tube or How To's in the R/C Hobby Blogs.
03-05-2013, 06:01 PM
#9
RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
I personally think gear mesh is one of the easiest things to set on a nitro vehicle.
Forget the "paper trick." Understand the intent. It's all about the "tick". Hold your spur and move yourclutchbell (or vise-versa) and youessentially want as little play as you can get,....but still be able to feel a little "tick" between the gears.
it'sreally as simple as that. ;-)
Your main objective should be to thread-lock your engine screws once you have it set. That is what typically strips gears (movement of engine).
Forget the "paper trick." Understand the intent. It's all about the "tick". Hold your spur and move yourclutchbell (or vise-versa) and youessentially want as little play as you can get,....but still be able to feel a little "tick" between the gears.
it'sreally as simple as that. ;-)
Your main objective should be to thread-lock your engine screws once you have it set. That is what typically strips gears (movement of engine).
03-05-2013, 06:52 PM
#10
RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
Ive been working on RCs for years now....
There is still 1 situation in which I like to use paper.
Sometimes, when you tighten the motor mount screws (usually with electrics) this has a tendancy to move the motor, thus making your gear mesh too tight. Thus, paper trick keeps the motor from moving closer when you tighten the mounting screws.
There is still 1 situation in which I like to use paper.
Sometimes, when you tighten the motor mount screws (usually with electrics) this has a tendancy to move the motor, thus making your gear mesh too tight. Thus, paper trick keeps the motor from moving closer when you tighten the mounting screws.
03-05-2013, 10:17 PM
#11
RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
I set mine to have the slightest backlashwith no excessive noise... some times ive had to increase the gap because it was still noisy (slightly out of round spur gear)
ps I set mine first then check it once its all tight....
ps I set mine first then check it once its all tight....
03-05-2013, 10:27 PM
#12
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RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
I set it as tight as I can while making sure it nots to tight it starts binding. Then I check to make sure that at all points on the spur gear it is not too tight and adjust accordingly. I used to use the paper method and it stripped gears fast, especially on 48 pitch or 0.6 gears. A good way to find out if your mesh is good is to loosen the grub screw on the pinion (electric) so your pinion spins on the motor shaft. If you roll the truck and its very smooth means you golden. However, some pinions can be tight on the shaft so if you unscrew the grub screw it will still grip to the shaft and turn the rotor, rendering the test redundant.
After a while, you seem to get a feel for meshing gears and all you have to use is sight, sound and feel.
03-05-2013, 10:27 PM
#13
RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
ORIGINAL: JohnP2
I personally think gear mesh is one of the easiest things to set on a nitro vehicle.
Forget the ''paper trick.'' Understand the intent. It's all about the ''tick''. Hold your spur and move your clutchbell (or vise-versa) and you essentially want as little play as you can get,....but still be able to feel a little ''tick'' between the gears.
it's really as simple as that. ;-)
Your main objective should be to thread-lock your engine screws once you have it set. That is what typically strips gears (movement of engine).
I personally think gear mesh is one of the easiest things to set on a nitro vehicle.
Forget the ''paper trick.'' Understand the intent. It's all about the ''tick''. Hold your spur and move your clutchbell (or vise-versa) and you essentially want as little play as you can get,....but still be able to feel a little ''tick'' between the gears.
it's really as simple as that. ;-)
Your main objective should be to thread-lock your engine screws once you have it set. That is what typically strips gears (movement of engine).
03-06-2013, 05:21 AM
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RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
You guys are great. Thanks for all of the info. It's trial and error to learn....that's how the Wright Brothers got their first airplane in the air right. I'm going to concentrate on not using paper and doing it by touch, feel and sound. It's difficult to get any results as I get home after the sun goes down and my neighbors don't especially like the sound of my nitros running up and down the street for testing purposes.
This weekend I plan to take them out and carefully see how I've done. Drive, check temps, drive, check gears for any warping, heat or broken teeth. Lots of trial and error, but isn't that the beauty of this hobby. Hands on, learning and hopefully getting it right.
Thank for all the information.
03-06-2013, 06:33 AM
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RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
ORIGINAL: Haddi Taha
Then I check to make sure that at all points on the spur gear it is not too tight and adjust accordingly
Then I check to make sure that at all points on the spur gear it is not too tight and adjust accordingly
03-06-2013, 01:44 PM
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RE: Meshing Use Paper or not
After setting the gears, I do a visual and a roll test listening for any strange noises and then do a forward and backward test to see is there is any binding. If all is good,then I would fire her up and do some, as I mentioned before, slow runs and check the gearing to make sure there is no excessive heat or ground or missing teeth. If all is good, then it's balls to the wall to see if I get her to go into 2d gear without any problems. If all is good, I'm off for some fun. If not, then there's something else that I'll learn how to repair!
Good luck, and have fun! 