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No wheel offset spec? ***?

Old 11-13-2013, 08:54 PM
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EXT2Rob
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Angry No wheel offset spec? ***?

Gentlemen,
I am trying to start a movement. A movement among the RC community which brings influence upon the great manufacturers such as those listed below, and others, to agree to specify an important wheel spec that no one to my knowledge seems to use at all. Offset. Those of us in the RC community who like to personalize their rigs, or just be able to shop the local hobby store racks, would really appreciate having this info. I just bought some wheels from my LHS on recommendation of the Guy and they turned out not to work. Why? Because we had to look thru the plastic bag the wheels are in to see the back of the wheel (not very well) and guess at the depth of the wheel from the inner rim to the hub face compared to the OEM wheel I had in my hand I’m trying to match something to. The offset was wrong. I had a 13mm deep wheel, and the new ones were 18mm deep. Nobody specs this on their packaging! Wouldn’t you agree some folks might find it useful? Instead of having to think, “OK, I have a Ofna/Hobao truck, what works with that that is made by Traxxas or Duratrax by MODEL?” you could just look to see if it is a 2.2in wheel with such-and-such offset, and whether it’s hex- or pin-drive. Don’t you think it would be easy for them to print on the lable, and beneficial for the customer?

Sincerely,
Rob Vernon
Retired, RC enthusiast

CC: AKA, JConcepts, RC Car Action Magazine, Traxxas, Losi, Team Associated, Proline Racing, RPM RC Products
Old 11-14-2013, 04:25 AM
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R32GolfTA06
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I agree, here here :-)
Old 11-14-2013, 07:01 AM
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after spending weeks on the net trying to get wheels for some sand tires i said i would never do it again as the info you need is just not there. and even if you find info most of the time it is wrong. lol
Old 11-14-2013, 07:34 AM
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Then, gentlemen, let's spread the word! It's TIME for them to start using this spec and printing it on the dang packages! Start writing/emailing all your product makers! DEMAND that they print this spec on the labels. Copy and post my letter in other forums. Email your RC friends. Let's get a letter writing campaign going! There are a good number of things that have been standardized in RC, but a lot that is not, and this to me is the most simple but important one. LET'S MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD!
Old 11-14-2013, 08:17 AM
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Sounds like a good idea to me.
Old 11-14-2013, 09:38 AM
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agree

happy ofna does it as I needed half offset rims for my truggy


HPI as been known not to though. I remember I bought some HPI rims for a 1/10th scale buggy and they didn't even have it labeled that it was pin drive not hex...
Old 11-15-2013, 09:34 AM
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Here is a very nice reply I got back from RPM:

Thank you for your suggestion regarding wheel offsets being listed on the header cards of our wheels. While it is an excellent idea, what you have to remember about RPM customers is that the predominance of our customers are bashers running RTRs (we estimate roughly 95%), not racers or customizers. That means that most of them only know what their vehicle is and nothing more. They need information regarding their own vehicle first and foremost. RPM header cards only have 3 lines of text available for a description of the contents within the package, with 45 characters per line (including spaces) available. While that may seem like plenty of room, we have several wheels that are so versatile that we have to abbreviate heavily to get the requisite information on those 3 lines of text. There simply isn't enough room on those particular header cards to fit offset information. While we do have room on other part numbers, it is usually those header cards on the most versatile of wheels that would need that information most. I hope this helps explain why RPM currently does not state offsets on our header cards.
However, I will be sure to forward your suggestion over to our product development team for their review. With any luck, perhaps you'll see a change in our header card layout but at this point, I'm afraid I can't make you any promises.
Take care and thank you for your interest and support of RPM products. If you have any other questions or comments, please feel free to send us another e-mail.

I replied to him that, if they would just print the wheel diameter, and the offset, they wouldn't HAVE to print all the other crap on the label. I don't need to know if this wheel fits a Traxxas this and Losi that, I just need to know the diameter and offset to know whether a given wheel will work on my RC car!! I would think this scheme would also benefit the LHS guys too, as they would not need to keep an encyclopedia of cross-references as to what fits what.
Old 11-15-2013, 09:36 AM
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this is a spectacular idea! so simple too it seems.
this info could very well possibly aid me at this very moment since im in the process of trying to determine which wheels to buy without narrowing my rig. i have been searching and searching and a few times found myself wishing that the offset was clearly made known so that i could take the next step of comparing with whats on there now. i will definitely do my little part and forward that letter.
thanks.
Old 11-15-2013, 10:06 AM
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Large Larry
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Originally Posted by EXT2Rob View Post
Here is a very nice reply I got back from RPM:

Thank you for your suggestion regarding wheel offsets being listed on the header cards of our wheels. While it is an excellent idea, what you have to remember about RPM customers is that the predominance of our customers are bashers running RTRs (we estimate roughly 95%), not racers or customizers. That means that most of them only know what their vehicle is and nothing more. They need information regarding their own vehicle first and foremost. RPM header cards only have 3 lines of text available for a description of the contents within the package, with 45 characters per line (including spaces) available. While that may seem like plenty of room, we have several wheels that are so versatile that we have to abbreviate heavily to get the requisite information on those 3 lines of text. There simply isn't enough room on those particular header cards to fit offset information. While we do have room on other part numbers, it is usually those header cards on the most versatile of wheels that would need that information most. I hope this helps explain why RPM currently does not state offsets on our header cards.
However, I will be sure to forward your suggestion over to our product development team for their review. With any luck, perhaps you'll see a change in our header card layout but at this point, I'm afraid I can't make you any promises.
Take care and thank you for your interest and support of RPM products. If you have any other questions or comments, please feel free to send us another e-mail.

I replied to him that, if they would just print the wheel diameter, and the offset, they wouldn't HAVE to print all the other crap on the label. I don't need to know if this wheel fits a Traxxas this and Losi that, I just need to know the diameter and offset to know whether a given wheel will work on my RC car!! I would think this scheme would also benefit the LHS guys too, as they would not need to keep an encyclopedia of cross-references as to what fits what.
I think the RPM guy who replied to you did a pretty good job of explaining himself. While the more information they provide the better, the fact of the matter is that the customers they mainly cater to don't require that information and due to the lack of space on their packaging if they were to substitute that info for the info you want provided they would most likely miss out on business due to people not being sure if the RPM rims they're looking at fir their Traxxas this or that, as soon as they see on the Pro-line packet right next to it that it will fit their desired model they won't bother with the measurements provided on the RPM packet.

Side note, I've always been able to find out the dimensions of rims by either checking the product description online or doing a little research, while I do think it's better to provide more information to your customers than less, I honestly don't see this is that big of a deal.

Last edited by Large Larry; 11-15-2013 at 10:08 AM.
Old 11-15-2013, 02:26 PM
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I went to RPMs page to look up the specs of the wheels I use on my Evader. (It's a Losi part number) WHAT specs?! "2.2 inches in diameter". That's all I could find! I want a technical drawing if they don't want to provide this info on the bloody package. Ok, maybe no need for a full tech drawing....JUST THE BLOODY OFFSET.

So how do YOU find out how deep (from inside rim to hub face) the wheel you're looking at on line is? Who provides this information? How many hours of digging do you have to do? Sorry Larry, I can't agree. I understand that a large portion of people are looking at what is specifically called out for their car. Hence, labels as we have them now. But it's so inefficient. And all I'm asking for is four freaking characters. Or maybe 6, if you'd code it "13mmOS" to mean 13mm offset. Yes, he did make a good point that label real estate is precious.

But, there are a lot of people out there who drive something besides Traxxas or Losi or Associated. So I stipulate that they are LOOSING potential customers they would otherwise gain by not making it easier for those of us who choose to drive something other than the Big Three. Sure, I could buy OE wheels from HoBao. I could buy a MOUNTED SET of 4 WITH TIRES for almost HALF of what it costs me to buy 4 JConcepts wheels and two pair of ProLine Gladiators. But I like to support my LHS as much as my wallet allows. And this convoluted system of "Fits Traxxas THIS, or Losi THAT" is just too cumbersome (to print on the labels) and too confusing for anyone who doesn't buy a Slash or a Rustler. It's bull****. And all it would take to make it all better is to just give us a LITTLE bit more info.
Old 11-16-2013, 11:52 AM
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I am going to go into my LHS this week and speak to someone to see what the attitudes are
Old 11-16-2013, 02:02 PM
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Large Larry
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Originally Posted by EXT2Rob View Post
I went to RPMs page to look up the specs of the wheels I use on my Evader. (It's a Losi part number) WHAT specs?! "2.2 inches in diameter". That's all I could find! I want a technical drawing if they don't want to provide this info on the bloody package. Ok, maybe no need for a full tech drawing....JUST THE BLOODY OFFSET.

So how do YOU find out how deep (from inside rim to hub face) the wheel you're looking at on line is? Who provides this information? How many hours of digging do you have to do? Sorry Larry, I can't agree. I understand that a large portion of people are looking at what is specifically called out for their car. Hence, labels as we have them now. But it's so inefficient. And all I'm asking for is four freaking characters. Or maybe 6, if you'd code it "13mmOS" to mean 13mm offset. Yes, he did make a good point that label real estate is precious.

But, there are a lot of people out there who drive something besides Traxxas or Losi or Associated. So I stipulate that they are LOOSING potential customers they would otherwise gain by not making it easier for those of us who choose to drive something other than the Big Three. Sure, I could buy OE wheels from HoBao. I could buy a MOUNTED SET of 4 WITH TIRES for almost HALF of what it costs me to buy 4 JConcepts wheels and two pair of ProLine Gladiators. But I like to support my LHS as much as my wallet allows. And this convoluted system of "Fits Traxxas THIS, or Losi THAT" is just too cumbersome (to print on the labels) and too confusing for anyone who doesn't buy a Slash or a Rustler. It's bull****. And all it would take to make it all better is to just give us a LITTLE bit more info.
First off calm down a little, we're talking about wheels for a toy car, try not to lose sight of that. If they don't have the specs you're looking for on their site that is where the research portion comes into it, email them, start a thread asking others to help you out, I know that might be a PITA to some but that's part of the hobby like it or not. I haven't bought rims from RPM so I am unaware of what info they have available on their site but I do find it a bit strange they don't provide that for their customers, perhaps that is something they could look into and change without too much trouble.

I gotta say I don't understand your reasoning for supporting your LHS vs getting what you want at half the price, no company has ever done anything for me that would make me want to spend double of what I have to pay just to support them, but each to their own.
Old 11-16-2013, 02:05 PM
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Large Larry
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Originally Posted by R32GolfTA06 View Post
I am going to go into my LHS this week and speak to someone to see what the attitudes are
Hobby stores have absolutely nothing to do with what info is provided on the packaging, they simply order it, put it on the rack and then sell it. I'm pretty sure the attitude you'll get will be of the "you're barking up the wrong tree" variety.
Old 11-16-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Large Larry View Post
Hobby stores have absolutely nothing to do with what info is provided on the packaging, they simply order it, put it on the rack and then sell it. I'm pretty sure the attitude you'll get will be of the "you're barking up the wrong tree" variety.
This is true, good point
Old 11-16-2013, 03:07 PM
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Im all in on this one and your right its even just the off set its with a lot of other parts too where they dont tell certain things we need to be heard by a lot of people.
Old 11-17-2013, 10:17 AM
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Hey Larry....heh heh, yer right, I get a little excited when I see an issue that a simple solution could remedy, or a situation that has evolved over time that has gotten convoluted and confusing. Sure, I could've posted a "what aftermarket wheels fit my car?" thread. I could order wheels from the manufacturer more cheaply. I could have bought another car that is better supported by my LHS (Traxxas 8^/) but they didn't have a car that fit what I was looking for. I made my choice, realizing that I would have to order replacement parts on-line, but for wheels and tires.....that is something I should be able to get at my LHS. I did it before with my previous car. I like to buy consumables from the LHS, and in that way, I feel I am helping support them, even if I bought the car on line.

I just think people like to have choices. OE wheels and tires on RTRs generally suck. That's why those of us who are smarter than the average noob want to buy a decent wheel by a quality manufacturer. Aftermarket companies rely on that. So, I would think they would be willing put anything on the label that would help them sell more product.

Yeah, the guys at my LHS probably think I'm crazy, too. But visionaries are commonly thought of as crazy.
Old 11-17-2013, 08:46 PM
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Proline actually used to have very nice diagrams on their website with wheel width, overall diameter, bead mounting diameter. They never included offset measurements though. And now they've removed those diagrams and any mention of measurements for most wheels from their site. They do have the "what Traxxas model it fits" though. I agree it would be nice to know these things and would like to see this information online when researching. On the packaging is a bit much and I wouldn't ask for it as I know what I want before going to the lhs since it won't be traxxas and they'll likely have to order it anyway.
Old 11-30-2013, 12:33 PM
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As far as I'm concerned, the more info a consumer has, the better purchasing decision they can make. Printing a few specs on the package isn't going to cost the manufactures much and it makes for happier customers. I'm offended by the RPM guy's response. Basically he is saying that we are too stupid to make buying decisions based on specs. Apparently corporate mentality is that our intelligence is limited to seeing if our car's name is on the package. This is really dumb considering how many interchangeable parts are in this hobby. How many of us have a car that has ONLY OEM parts? It's a PITA to find wheels that you know will fit. Printing offset and diameter is all you need to get the right one. As consumers, if we complain enough the manufactures will come around, eventually. If we take the attitude "that's the way it is" nothing will ever change. Stay pissed EXT2Rob.

As far as buying parts online vs. your LHS. That's a personal buying decision. I like spending my money locally, if possible, rather than giving it to some corporate conglomerate. That said, I do buy a lot of stuff online, partly because I don't have a LHS nearby that's any good, partly because of the ease of online ordering and partly because of the price. To each, his own.
Old 11-30-2013, 05:10 PM
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I have a very nice set of 2.2 Gladiators mounted on Pro Line Wheels. To bad they do not fit my truck so I am out $50.00. I have used acetone to remove the tire from the wheel. I have them mostly off without to much damage. We looked at them and I went by the guy at the LHS who said they fit. I had to guess. Well the off set is not enough so they bind on the knuckle and steering arm. I would like to know the offset on the stock wheels so I could order new rims, but they do not even list it.

I too would like to see the rims size and offset. When I get tires for my full scale car, They do not list what cars the tires fit, they give the tire size.


Buzz.
Old 12-05-2013, 11:43 AM
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Here is a very nice response I got from AKA:

Rob,

I agree with you that it could be helpful to know the offset of the wheels for the few that are looking for wheels for a non-specified application. The problem that you run into with r/c cars is that there are VERY few cars that actually share the same wheels. There are many, many more factors that you would have to take into consideration for sizing, such as hex size, axle diameter, axle length, offset, diameter, width, etc. Just because the offset may be the same as another car, doesn't mean that you will be able to use the wheel, because there will likely be something else that is different. That is why we clearly mark what vehicles our wheels fit on. It is unlikely they will fit anything else anyway. Unfortunately, manufacturers keep producing cars with proprietary wheels and cant agree on one hex size or offset. To make this easier on all of us would be to standardize a wheel for a certain type of vehicle. Maybe years down the road we will see this get better, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it. Thank you for dropping us a line!

Brent Fiege
Old 12-05-2013, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by blvdbuzzard View Post
I have a very nice set of 2.2 Gladiators mounted on Pro Line Wheels. To bad they do not fit my truck so I am out $50.00. I have used acetone to remove the tire from the wheel. I have them mostly off without to much damage. We looked at them and I went by the guy at the LHS who said they fit. I had to guess. Well the off set is not enough so they bind on the knuckle and steering arm. I would like to know the offset on the stock wheels so I could order new rims, but they do not even list it.

I too would like to see the rims size and offset. When I get tires for my full scale car, They do not list what cars the tires fit, they give the tire size.


Buzz.
Hey Buzz, What car are we talkin' about? Yeah I had the same issue. The LHS guy said they'd fit, they didn't. He made it right for me, tho. He had a box-o-spare "hex-extenders". !! I didn't even know they HAD such things. (Um this is assuming your wheels are hex-drive, not pin drive). Using these extenders allowed me to use the "improper" wheels/tires.
Old 12-05-2013, 01:30 PM
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OK. A better response than the last guy. But I disagree with the statement that very few share the same wheels. Maybe the manufactures didn't intend us to share wheels from one make to another but out in the real world we do. I run an RPM wheel on my Evader intended for an Associated vehicle. Can't remember which one. It's offset is about 1/4 inch greater than stock so I have a wider track (got lucky on that one) but it's slot for the pin is shorter than the duratrax pin so I make my own. So yeah, you'd have to add a couple more specs. Here's my list:

wheel diameter
wheel width
axle (hole) diameter
offset
drive type: if it's hex, state the size; if it's pin drive state the pin diameter and length

Can you think of anything else, except maybe if the wheel is acetone safe? If every wheel had these specs then you could be sure it'll fit before you buy. That'd be nice.

Originally Posted by EXT2Rob View Post
Here is a very nice response I got from AKA:

Rob,

I agree with you that it could be helpful to know the offset of the wheels for the few that are looking for wheels for a non-specified application. The problem that you run into with r/c cars is that there are VERY few cars that actually share the same wheels. There are many, many more factors that you would have to take into consideration for sizing, such as hex size, axle diameter, axle length, offset, diameter, width, etc. Just because the offset may be the same as another car, doesn't mean that you will be able to use the wheel, because there will likely be something else that is different. That is why we clearly mark what vehicles our wheels fit on. It is unlikely they will fit anything else anyway. Unfortunately, manufacturers keep producing cars with proprietary wheels and cant agree on one hex size or offset. To make this easier on all of us would be to standardize a wheel for a certain type of vehicle. Maybe years down the road we will see this get better, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it. Thank you for dropping us a line!

Brent Fiege

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