chinook1

Everyone has seen ads like these:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/1-10-RC-4WD-Elect...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.ca/2007-LATEST-IMPRO...QQcmdZViewItem

These are just two examples of MANY cheap Chinese knock offs of well known rigs. The purpose of this thread is to try to collect info and opinions about these cars from the people who HAVE USED THEM. I have seen an awful lot of posts all over saying to avoid them, but not really from people who own them. It seems to be more the idea of copies that bothers people. Myself, I suspect that they are built in the same factories (often), and with identical parts. If they are half the price, and perform similarly, does it really matter if they last half as long. And who's to say that they won't? What if the parts are compatible (like the Bonzer is with the Tamiya Wild Dagger).

But, is it wrong to buy what are essentially stolen/pirated copies of the originals? These companies did not do the R/D to make a great rig, Traxxas and DuraTrax, and Tamiya did. Shouldn't they get the profit?

Render your opinions, links, experiences, photos and $0.02 below.

I'll start with the Heng Long Mad Truck that has recently appeared on eBay. It seems to be a very impressive set of features for $150; aluminum oil shocks, metal gearing, full ball bearings, esc, and aluminum skidplates. While not an exact knock-off of anything I can figure, it seems to be an assemblage of other trucks. I asked this guy selling a used one on ebay what he thought:

"Hi, glad to answer, The quality is quite impressive and they definetly did R/D when making it. Hard to tell what it is supposed to copy, maybe the Ofna Monster Pirate but in smaller scale?? The drivetrain spins like silk and appears very strong. The shafts and bones are thick and strong, pins are hardened and all outdrive are metal. I looked at the diffs and they are meshed fine and are great quality, full metal gears impressed me too...." and "The hexes on it now are a perfect match for the HPI Star 2.2 wheels. As for replacment parts, you can pretty much revamp the electrics (no need, maybe metal gear servo if this one ever fails), the shocks (the included ones are great shocks and I've had many!) pinions, maybe new spur but I do agree finding Heng Long parts may be a challenge if something breaks. Some Assiciated, HPI and Ofna 1/10th scale parts should fit. I looks to be built to take a beating so unless something tragic occurs it should last for a long time. Well hope this helps! Thanks for asking Stan"

So, Stan seems to know what he's talking about. What do you think?

Chinook

Auslide

I own and Run a HBX Bonzer...
It looks like a Twin dagger but actually is Just a Normal TL-01 Single Motor on road chassis on Twin Dagger Tyres and rims..

All TL-01 Hop ups will fit the Bonzer.
Gearing through to Body posts. there is Very little difference..

The Bonzer isnt as well planed as the Twin Dagger.
They are great stock, but go to mod them and they are too over Geared..

As far as I can Tell, HBX is an Individual Company that has either Bought the rights or Buys Bulk Tamiya Over Stock Spares and re-releases them with their own brand Electronics..
They seem to use a poorer quality plastic then Tamiya.. They have complete Parts support for their Own vehicles and the parts are a whole heap cheaper then Tamiya's.. They even use the same Product codes for most of their parts as Tamiya...

gunnut

Stay away from chinese knock-off airplanes! lol they don't fly!
Through my experiences with airplanes-- if it looks too good to be true, IT IS!
But hey that's just my honest opinion!

Phelansa

I own 5 HBX Bonzers, all in various states of modification. Must add my voice to what Magnat said. These are brilliant little entry level cars . But when you start modifying you start seeing the limitations. My HBX's have convinced many friends and family that RC is an affordable fun hobby. And if only for that, they have paid themselves many times over.

So for those people who knock the " cheap chinese rip offs I can say only this. If you do not like them, then dont buy them. For everybody else out there who is looking to get into the sport without breaking the bank I say you could do a Heck of a lot worse with your $70

PS 5 truck, many many complete novice drivers..... and not one dead truck YET, that has to tell you something.

Nitro212

Hah i would never buy those cars have had bad experiences with cheap ones aka smartech what u buy cheap break fast id rather buy Name Brand and not cheap stuff anyways thats what this world is about reverse engeneering take ur idea rip it make it better for less money or in this case Wprst less durable..

boltech

I bought a Smartech new for a great price and aside from a melted clutch it has held up very well and still runs perfectly after 2 and a half years. it has seen it's share of curb hits and rollovers. IMO if you are gonna buy a smartech there are a few things that need to be replaced right off the bat. The clutch, and the electronics. Those alone makes the car handle much much more better. I even swapped out the engine for a speed boost.

These knockoffs are very attractive to RC and Nitro Newbs who often know nothing about Nitro or RC's in general. thus they have a lot of problems right off the bat, simple things like tuning or checking everything on a RTR before starting they neglect to do.

IMO the cheap knockoffs have developed the stigma that they have for a few reasons,
1. they are bought primarily by newbs who have little experience,
2. Those that have spent waay more on a brand name RC want to insure their investment.

Auslide

I only buy the HBX gear as I know they have aftermarket support.

E-bay boats have to be bought with Extreme Cauition.
They look the same as their clone but the Electrics and prop work is all cheapened with next to no aftermarket support essentially making them good looking toys.

irishdrifter

as the saying goes.. u buy cheap, u buy twice

Nitro212

Yeah in the end u will end up spending more money than if u would of bought an expensive one

SAVAGEJIM

I dont know much about Chinese knock-off cars and trucks, but I do know that the Chinese nitro engines such as SH and STS are beginning to make a positive name for them selves. STS engines are really cheap as compared to the Japanese OS and the Italian 'Rossis but can make power that are not too far behind these reputable engines. SH is such a sucessful design for a cheaper engine that it has spawned many derivatives such as LRP, XTM, etc. These engines are what I actually consider mid-grade right now and I personally use an STS D28M in my daily basher monster truck. If I had the the money, I would actually buy an SH derivative engine; they have a positive reputation.

Phelansa

How long ago was it that people knocked everything out of Japan? Now they are acknowleged to make some of the best equipment out there?

You may laugh now, but watch the Chinese in a couple of years. These guys are awesome!!

When you buy one of thse cheapies do try to remember what they are in the first place. A CHEAP alternative. Do not expect everything of the best.

rcxboy

Well, i don't see where they are going to get just putting big wheels on a copy of another company's onroad car.

chinook1

Thanks for responding everyone! Good discussion, here. I think Boltech has it right, and says it well. I am newbie enough not to have brand loyalty, I've had a Venom Mini Giant, and a Losi Mini LST. The Mini LST is good example of paying for a name brand rig, only to have it sit on a shelf due to poor engineering (diffs). I got sick of spending three hours dissasembing it for every 2 minutes of run time. So what good did it do me to pay full price? I think the point of newbies buying these, and then flaming them later because of poor maintenance is a good one.

So, do any of you pros know what the hell that Mad Truck is supposed to be, or what parts could be used on it?

dfreshrc

Just got 1 of the Bonzer trucks, Was looking for something cheap to start. Quite impressed so far, I'll update after I spend some more time with it[8D]

125cchyperman

Huh

I think that mad truck looks kinda like a 4wd ST and they just put some larger tires on it and called it a MT. I wounder if they thought about putting smaller tires on it and calling it a on road car yet. Opps may have given them an idea, Ohh well.

Personally I think there a knock off for a reason, the originals are good and they try and make some people think there the original. Some appear to be very similar in design and some are just something they dreamed up in one night, and some of those you can really tell that they did it in a short period of time.

Now I'm not saying that there all bad, but there cheaper for a reason. If your a newb then I wouldnt exactly suggest to get one as they might get a sour taste in there mouth and not be able to get it out. And thats ashame that that happens but it does. Now if you have a very limited budget or you just wont to get a taste of what it's like without spending a whole lot then it's ok. As it's just to see weather you like it or not and if the budget is your reason then it is what it is.

But if your serious about RC then I highly suggest that you get a name brand, there cheap for a reason and as I said before it looks like the only difference between a MT and a ST is the different tire size. And I for one really dont like that, but thats me and my opinion.

dude7422

YAYAYAYAY CHEAP KNOCK OFFS IS ALL THEY ARE YOU CANT FIND PARTS ANY PLACE EVER THE HOME SITE WERE YOU BOUGHT IT IS IN CHINA AND SHIPPING COST MORE THEN THE THINGS WORTH IMO REMBER WE ALL BRAKE AND BEAT THESE TOYS LIKE A RED HEADED STEP CHILD AND HYPER125CCMAN QUIT GIVING THEM IDEAS CHEAP ROAD CAR LOL

Yub, yub, cmdr!

Yeah, the Chinese knock offs can be of rather low quality (speaking objectively here even though I am native Chinese)

But I agree, the SH engines (I run a .21 off road) made the guys at the track with WS7IIs marvel that I got such a fast engine for $150. IMPE it's really not that much slower that other fancy name $400 engines.

Phelansa

And that to me is the whole point. ALMOST as good for a lot cheaper!!

Yes I agree that if you are serious rather look at a NAME brand. But for plebs like me on a tight budget.... IF you can live with the obvious limitations....

I can only say go Chinese!!

mindwreck

they aren't bad. they're cheap knock offs so treat them accordingly. they seem to be stepping it up quite a bit, that mad truck looks decent enough for a 150 beginners truck.

me and boltech have been working those smartechs. really bad electronics but after a basic electronics upgrade it was much better. mine has a moded and ported the engine and now it flys.

these are knockoffs but with some work they can be average hobby grade cars, not really worth it, but newbs do need a place to start. worse part is the replacements are hard to find and hop-ups are nonexistent unless u have cloned ones like the bonzer tl-01 wannbe

dude7422

ok so when the real rc makers go out of business then the cheap knock off companies will copy hows car then????? you will be stuck in the mud holding your p*d you dudes just dont get the cheap knock offs could improve the rc cars they dont so i see not need to buy one imo ya china pays what 30 cents a day for labor (slave labor )and have kids as young as 3years old working ya you should go buy a 1000 of those cheap cars

125cchyperman

I didnt understand one thing that you have just said at all. About the only thing I got was china pay's there people 30 cents an hour and have slave labor, which they do. But thats all that I understood though.

But I do understand that the STS and SH engine are pretty good. But there an engine company and I dont really think of them as a copy cat or a knock off. As there kinda a name brand as far as I'm concerned, not known as well as O.S but still in there own right. But I'm more or less talking about the RC's they make. As I said earlier look at the RC in the second link provided above. If you where to slap on some smaller tires it's a ST and if you slap on some smaller tires it's a on road car. But the battery placement is that of a cheap wal-mart or K-mart (there's nothin wrong with K-mart or Wal-Mart rc's there just not hobby grade) Rc's do. The first one the mad truck or what ever it is you could do the same thing for. I sat and looked at it for some time and all they would have to do to make it look all most exactly like a on road car is put some smaller tires on it, take the top a-arm off and switch it with a turn buckle and put on some smaller shocks. Doing all of this would lower the truck significantly and you would have a on road car with a mt body.

And you would have an on road car thats 4wd, that you couldnt tell was actually a mt to begin with at all if you got a car body that fit on there. But if thats all that money allows you to get then by all means go have fun but dont expect to replace the broken parts or be able to hang with people that have the hobby grade RC's.

i8tweety

My Feedback: (11)

The Tamiya TL01 chassis was used for both on-road and off-road vehicles by Tamiya. The difference was the length of the suspension arms. The "knock-off" has the long suspension arms (just as the tamiya did). To convert it to the on-road version, they swap out the suspension arms, drive shafts, shocks, wheels, and shock towers.

carmatic1

i own a mini lst, and i hear that its made in china despite its name brand.... so yeah its got poo quality , but being a losi brand it has aftermarket support to fix its problems (like the diff gears)

by chinese knockoffs do you also mean the blatant copies of other monster trucks ? like they are totally identical to a name brand truck ... at least with those, you get to replace parts , with these unique chinese cars you end up with whatever it ships with....

dfreshrc

OK had the Bonzer truck for a bit, Looks like TL01 parts will fit it. I'll find out for sure ordered some hopups. I wanted to get an RC truck without spending a lot, to see if I would be interested in this. Couldn't see dropping 3-4 hun on an Esavage unless I knew it wasn't gonna collect dust. this thing is pretty quick out of the box and also pretty durable. Hit a bolder head on at full speed and only split the bumper. Couple weeks of running almost every day and no issue. Waiting on the hopups I'll let you all know how that goes

chinook1

I suppose I was not differentiating in my original post between the blatant knock offs, and originals. I think the Mad Truck is a copy of the tt-01 chassis with longer arms and turnbuckles. It may also be just a unique design, which means you would be S.O.L. if you break anything...ever!

The fact is almost all these cars from the name brands are made in China. With a name brand I think you get quality engineering to begin with, which may not be the case with the Chinese brands. The MLST is a perfect example; the problem with the diffs was not manufacturing, but rather the use of Mini-T parts on a larger more powerful vehicle. Another case in point is the Bonzer thingy; almost review I have read says the think is well made and very durable. That one is a copy of the TLo1 and the part do fit it. No real failing on the part of the Chinese there, they made a copy of a tested chassis, and it's standing up to the challenge.

The bigger question may be whether it is RIGHT, or MORAL to buy a knock off made by 5 year olds making $.02 per day by a company that steals the design. Who's to say that Tamiya is not using the very same factory, and the very same 5 year old, but putting more profit in it's pockets?