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Electric Vs. Nitro
I need some pros and cons about electric and nitro buggys. thanks.
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RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
CONS on electric :
Constanly have to rebuild motors need many stick packs spendy esc spendy motor spendy cleaners spendy chargers short run times no realistic sounds high pitch motor Diagnosing shorts suck with out voltmeter. PROS Nitro: Fast Fastest growing between the two Longer living engines More userfriendly engines Live over 5 gallons before a rebuild is needed minor maintainance required on engine. Ez to diagnos issues |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
ok thanks.
what are some cons on nitro and some pros on electric? |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
Nitro Cons
Constant Carb Tuning Require Clutches Messy & Loud (Your neighbors may not appreciate it) Flipping over and running out of fuel or stalling out Still need batteries Require Glo Igniters, pull starts & Starter Boxes Drink feul like its water Glo plugs go bad. Priming the tank (nitro tastes bad) Brake Discs Wear Out Run times on 1 tank of gas is usually under 10 minutes (unless you have montster truck with one of those huge gas tanks). Electric plusses: Cleaner Quieter Simpler Easier to brake & reverse Plug in your battery and go convenience Require only 1 servo Motors are less expensive than engines and brushed motors can last a surprisingly long time if properly maintained. Nitro is more popular right now, but, new electric technology is on the way which may turn things upsidedown. Breakthroughs in lipo batteries combined maintenence free brushless motors will result in 20 - 30 minute run times and incredible performance. The technology is already out there, it's just taking longer than it should getting it into the mainstream and making it affordable. When lipo batteries and brushless motors are perfected, my nitro truck will sit on my shelf. |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
thanks.
i was looking at some Nitro Buggies. i found one that looks good. what do you think of this one? its a 1/10 scale Smartech Buggy. 4wd http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...1/offroad6.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...1/10343p2d.gif |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
I am sure they are endless and it depends on what you call a pro or a con.
Electric Pro: Minimal maintenance if you go brushless (oil bearings once every month.). More if you use brushes. Runtimes can be up to 12 mins in Mod brushless on 3300's. (Lipos much higher. Approx 25 mins I have seen posted.) Cleanup - Car cleanup is usually not bad Low Noise - I can run my car in my neighborhood 24X7 Realistic future car sounds when they all go electric. Get used to it? Batteries can last several years depending on if you are bashing/racing. Indoors racing - Most indoor racing does not allow Nitro in my area. Cons: Run time: Brushed Motors 5-8 mins. Motor maintenance - Brushed can be from daily to every so many runs. Maint is usually less than 20 mins for me. !QUOT!Engine Noise Grunt!QUOT! factor - Many people like to hear the sound of a combustion engine. Batteries - If you race you need 3 initial sets in my opinion. You can charge them 2 times per day. Cost : Not comparing to nitro but the cost of this hobby in general could get high. Battery Charger - You need a batter Charger for the race batteries. You need power for it. AC/DC available. Brushless - It is not mature and Roar sactioned yet. Lipo Batteries - Cutting edge Tech. Research if you want to run it. I am not a Nitro person but I have seen some of them at the tracks. They are always working on the cars and many of them are rushing to make the races. I can't believe this should be the norm. But you still have items like Glow plugs and batteries, The smell of the fuel you will like or dislike, The oil and cleanup of the car you will like or dislike. Noise will be good or bad for you. Fuel Cost - Based on the packs I have run through my car I have already paid for my batteries 2 times in fuel cost. ( I run brushless). Some cons to consider is your experience in the hobby. I have seen people burn up engines in both types of cars. It cost you more in nitro than electric normally. These types of things should not happen though. Ask for help to avoid the mistake cons. Hey wait can we all pick and defend different items? Heck yes. There is a guy that has an 8th scale electric he is running with the gas guys. Do you want money in at the front or over time? It can be expensive for either class. My opinion is you should look up some local on-road and off-road tracks. Go watch them race even if you will just bash. Ask them questions. Ask what they do to keep up the vehicle. You will get a wide range of answers for each type of car gas or electric. Figure out where you stand in life. I am one that cleans my car after every race weekend from top to bottom. Some people throw them in the box and bring them out dirty. Based on that you should be able to see the maintenance level you will keep and maybe some basic keep it running cost. I did this for several weekends and it helped me decide. If you haven't check out the local hobby shops. Some of the people in them can be a wealth of information. Be aware that some of them may be out to just sell you something also. But most important when you are at the tracks which type of car makes the heart race while you watch it. Which type of driving on-road or off-road makes the heart race. Pick the one that is right for you. If you want to race and the only place to race is indoor electric do you want a Nitro? What about if everyone is racing Nitro and no one is in electric in you area? Also if you do searches on may of the discussion boards you can find this has been debated many times. Every car has pro's and cons. Bottom line - Both type are awsome fun and I am not sure I could not recommend either over the other even though I chose electric. |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
what are you guy's input on the Tower Hobbies ST-15? i am new to nitro rc cars so would this be a good one for me?
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RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
Hell no! Get something nitro eh? Towerhobbies only has ONE good racing/bashing truck that comes rtr... the RC10GT.
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RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
why do you think the St-15 is bad?
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RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
I am a nitro guy at heart. I raced a Losi NXT and XXX-NT for about four years on a budget of about $15 a week. They only costs I had were a $5 race fee, $25 every fifth week for a pair of tires, $20 a month for fuel, and a $6 glow plug every other month, new engine every 6 gallons or so. That's it.
My good friend and his dad race modified trucks. Our laps times were nearly identicle. Here are his costs: A $5 race fee, a $5 set of brushes every week, cut the comm (lathe $200 or so) and replace it every few weeks at about $30, they have two chargers running over $100 a peice, about 15 matched batteries at about $50 each. Every season they would buy about 6 motors ($300) and 6 new batteries ($300). That's $600 just for new motors and batteries. My new motor was $150, maybe $20 for glow plugs, and $100 for gas. That's $270. Wow would sum that up nicely. $600 vs. $270 for the same lap times... |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
I should also say you don't need to spend the kind of money they do on racing. If you spent half the money they did you wouldn't be too far of the pace.
My point is you don't have to spend as much on nitro as you do on electric to acheive optimum performance. Nitro will cost less if you go all out but electric is less expensive to start out with. |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
ORIGINAL: gubbs3 I am a nitro guy at heart. I raced a Losi NXT and XXX-NT for about four years on a budget of about $15 a week. They only costs I had were a $5 race fee, $25 every fifth week for a pair of tires, $20 a month for fuel, and a $6 glow plug every other month, new engine every 6 gallons or so. That's it. My good friend and his dad race modified trucks. Our laps times were nearly identicle. Here are his costs: A $5 race fee, a $5 set of brushes every week, cut the comm (lathe $200 or so) and replace it every few weeks at about $30, they have two chargers running over $100 a peice, about 15 matched batteries at about $50 each. Every season they would buy about 6 motors ($300) and 6 new batteries ($300). That's $600 just for new motors and batteries. My new motor was $150, maybe $20 for glow plugs, and $100 for gas. That's $270. Wow would sum that up nicely. $600 vs. $270 for the same lap times... With that said, if I was not racing I wouldn't own a nitro vehicle of any kind. I raced electric before I was forced to go to nitro to be able to get a race with more than 2 other cars in it, and if it was not for that I wouldn't put up with the hassle that nitro is when compared to electric. In short, if you are wanting to race off road, nitro is the only real game in town (at least in my part of the world), but if you are just looking to have fun electric is the only way to go. |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
Too bad these nitro guys don't get out much.
Different stuff gets raced in different areas; where I live nitro has all but died out, but I have a bunch of friends in ventura county (CA) where both nitro and electric are going strong. ...but monster trucks are really popular down there, and no one races them here (well, now we have 2 revos, but they should keep out all the others) Most of the ventura co. stores don't carry anything from duratrax, but where I live I generally see about 20 evaders at each race, and my LHS can't keep them on the shelf. REAL ELECTRIC INFO: Electric cars are much easier and more reliable, you don't need new brushes for every race, the com only needs to be cut every month or so, and if you don't overgear it, a motor can last over a year. Most shops will cut your comm for you for $5-10. Of course, that is 27 turn (stock) motors, which are slower than gas. Mod motors, which are faster than gas, cost more and need more frequent work. Brushless, on the other hand, are faster than gas, nearly maintenance free, last a very long time, run longewr than gas on the same batts as the brushed motors. The prices on them are falling, 1/2 today what they were 2 years ago, and you only need to buy once (When I say no maintenance, I'm serious) As for batteries, a good battery pack can be had for $32 assembled ($27 diy), and a lot of people aren't racing on good packs. An old race pack that a serious racer is getting rid of for $10 will beat the pants off a $15 cheapo pack. Also, LHSs seem to have ridiculously overpriced batteries, not $5-10 over internet pricing, but rather 2-3 times the online price. And we have lipos on the horizon, and their prices are starting to become doable. Electric has brushless and lipo on the horizon, with 30 min run times with more power than most people can handle... what is coming up for nitro? and oh yeah: screw roar. really. it's roar's damn fault we are still running with brushed 7.2V motors... you can have a cheap, fast motor that lasts a long time if you use higher voltage. |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
ORIGINAL: couldbemage and oh yeah: screw roar. really. it's roar's damn fault we are still running with brushed 7.2V motors... you can have a cheap, fast motor that lasts a long time if you use higher voltage. It's good to hear that electric still turns out well someplace. here in the east it's nitro or bust for off road. As far as that goes, it's just about down to 8th buggy or MT, we have been having a hard time getting enough gas trucks for a class this year. We still get some decent turnout for electric sedans, but on road just does not blow my dress up at all. I've tried it a couple of times and the thrill is not there for me. |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
Roar needs to take a page from the SCCA and allow some open classes, at autocross you can race anything you can get to the event. Of course, that means a turbo civic with a stripped interior gets to race against a 360 modena, but that is better than being told to go home.
How about starting with an open 1/10th off road class? Any truck, buggy, nitro or electric... an ss5800 will keep up with nitro... but an open class would encourage innovation like: bigger nitro engines? 2 by 3 lipos? (4000 mah at 11.1 volts) race truggies? we don't need 30 minutes of runtime, so why not get 11.1 or 14.8 volts from packs that weigh the same as todays gp3300s? |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
"And oh yeah: screw roar. really. it's roar's damn fault we are still running with brushed 7.2V motors... you can have a cheap, fast motor that lasts a long time if you use higher voltage. "
I don't even run electrics, so it really doesn't pertain to me. However, considering the cost to run better equipment, it kinda makes sense to me. Not everybody has the budget to get better stuff. If they changed the rules, alot of people would be left out of this already dwindling hobby. You just can't convince a newbie he needs to spend hundreds on an RC car, they'll laugh at you... I'm into nitro, and one of my team mates has one of each. It cost him ALOT, just to get the electric car going, and guess what. It catches dust on his work bench, while he's racing and turning wrenches on the nitro car... "Roar needs to take a page from the SCCA and allow some open classes, at autocross you can race anything you can get to the event. Of course, that means a turbo civic with a stripped interior gets to race against a 360 modena, but that is better than being told to go home." Open classes don't last long around here, when the depth of your pockets is what wins the race, it's just no fun... I'm not doggin either class, I just prefer the sound and feel of nitro. Each has a long list of pros and cons, it just comes down to personal preference. I agree with one of the previous suggestions, ask around, and like I must have said 50 times on this site... Go to your local Hobby shop and see what they have the best support/most parts for. If you race, see what the bigger class is. More than likely the LHS will supply parts for what's most popular... |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
I think it depends on the person and what they consider they need. To be competitive in Nitro it would have cost me over 1/3 more than electric with the cars they are running down here. I run a brushless and have very little cost. 3 battery packs were just over $90 and a single charger $100 for a nice one. I could have gone cheaper. There are cost in nitro and electric. Depending on the level you want to keep your car at. Anyone that cuts coms every week is on the high end. There is the cost of gas in nitro which is no worse than my initial battery cost and I only replace 1 pack per year. Batteries can last well more than a year and a used pack from a top end racer is more than good enough for club racing. Either type of vehicle can be as expensive as you want to make it. I spend about $25 per week to race. $10 for entry and the other 15 for food and parts(If i don't need a part it goes into the fund when I need a bigger part.). Its a load of crap that electric is more expensive. If you are in a class that you have to have everything perfectly tweaked to run it will be expensive in Nitro or electric. The problem is you pay for your power source up front in electric.
I find it interesting that people people will complain about a motor and ESC costing $200 in electric but will buy an engine worth that or more in Nitro and say electric is more expensive. They say batteries are expensive but don't mention the cost for a years worth of fuel running every weekend(It was here). What is the cost of an electric starter? That is the equivalent of a battery charger. Goods chargers can be had for $50. What about cleaning supplies? Is there anything you have to use to cut through the grease? I wouldn't even dream of running a brushed setup. It makes no sense. Yes running a mod motor will cost you more. But getting the right mod motors can cut down on maintenance levels. Some require more than others. If I have to replace my brushless motor it will be around $70. Otherwise a new set of bearings for $12. $300 in batteries every year? They think about selling the old ones? (You should also subtract the resale cost from your total cost.) Plus very few people in dirt need a $50 pack. Go buy a used one from the top end guys. Bottom line in my book is that if you do the right research in Electric or Nitro you can get a good dependable setup and run it relatively cheap compared to many people in the hobby. The right setup will also be fairly competitive so that you have chances of making it into the A-main races and actually be up in the front. |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
ORIGINAL: RG501 I need some pros and cons about electric and nitro buggys. thanks. FG has buggies that run on an oil/gas mix much like a weed eater. Their initial cost may be high, but it is still cheaper than a quality nitro buggy. Why? There is no expensive nitro. There are also no real tuning issues and the weather doesn't hamper the engines since the Zenoah and Solo engines don't use glow plugs because they uses spark plugs. FG is also releasing a 2WD Monster truck that has an upcoming 4WD option that dwarfs the standard 1/8th scale. And before anyone posts their derogatory response, I also own a Traxxas T-Maxx 2.5 with a Sirio 3.0, a Mugen Sieki mbX5 with a P5, a 1/5th scale FG, a 1/4 scale gas/oil mix, and a lot of electric R/Cs. A quick trip to the Traxxas message board will also show a post by Traxxas itself regarding tuning issues and how the ambient temperature effects nitro motors. Consequently, if it's 105F I wouldn't even bother to run my nitros, but I would run my gas/oil mix or my electrics. |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
Nitro racing is the only thing alive in minnesota... electric racing has died out... except for the kiddies at the TCHR track... nothing but evaders. Whats coming up for nitro? the fact that we are spreading a 12s ability OVER 1.5 hp!!! We are able to run over 8 gallons now... and we can run 1 hr long mains while keeping a constant temp! Electric motors overheat after about 15 minutes.... and a modified hardly lasts longer than 8 before kids draw smoke here. Yeah Lipo... big deal... make a motor that can go the distance... a stocker almost can! But even he overheats. It will be a while before electric comes back... if it ever does.
ORIGINAL: couldbemage How about starting with an open 1/10th off road class? Any truck, buggy, nitro or electric... an ss5800 will keep up with nitro... |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
ORIGINAL: rccars411 Nitro racing is the only thing alive in minnesota... Edit: Here is one of the US Importer's links whose owners are members of this forum and if I recall correctly, also live in MN. There is another US Importer in California. http://www.molzermoweryracing.com/dealer.html |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
Yeah i know molzer... i race with the main guy! Andrew i think his name is. He races 200mm and F1... and always wins at Ramsey. They sell parts for the cars at ramsey... nothing more. That is also another place I hang out...new offroad track and mine is next.
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RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
If you note: I didn't say anything bad about nitro, other than that they take more effort, while the niro guys bashing the electrics mostly just complain and about things they just don't understand.
Higher voltage systems do not cost more, rather they are a cheaper way of getting a fast car, that is why all the toys use 9.6V systems, they are the cheap way to go fast. As for falling off the pace after 3 laps, well they must have broken something, since even brushed motors will stay strong for at least 6 min with a GP 3300. If a brushless ran down after a couple mins then they either forgot to charge it, broke something, or just are not as good at driving as you are. On that note, why do people think it means something about the cars you are talking about when you say you can beat it with you (insert fav here)? I saw a mini-t beat a XXXnt the other night, and I know the mini-t isn't that good; driver is the most important part. and the novak is only as fast as the nitro.... and not really that.... much faster off the line, but not as high at the top end, great for tight courses..... As for minnesota, it's a small part of the world, but is it actually that small that you personally race everywhere in the state? I live in a tiny town in the mojave desert, and we have 2 tracks, but the LA area has dozens... Motors that can go the distance? HELLO? BRUSHLESS? " It will be a while before electric comes back... if it ever does. " There is an outside world, try visiting it. Nitro is NOT the new kid. NOT the hot NEW thing. Electric isn't something from the archaic past, it's something that is just now becoming worthwhile. 3 years ago NIMH batts were exotic items used in expesive planes. 6 years ago most people didn't know about them. Does anybody actually run a 30 min main? We frequently lose half the cars in a 5 min race. Broken arms, outdrives, belts pop off, all sorts of crap. A 30 min race would be won by an aluminum billet with wheels.... |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
ORIGINAL: couldbemage Does anybody actually run a 30 min main? We frequently lose half the cars in a 5 min race. Broken arms, outdrives, belts pop off, all sorts of crap. A 30 min race would be won by an aluminum billet with wheels.... |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
ORIGINAL: couldbemage There is an outside world, try visiting it. Nitro is NOT the new kid. NOT the hot NEW thing. Electric isn't something from the archaic past, it's something that is just now becoming worthwhile. 3 years ago NIMH batts were exotic items used in expesive planes. 6 years ago most people didn't know about them. Does anybody actually run a 30 min main? We frequently lose half the cars in a 5 min race. Broken arms, outdrives, belts pop off, all sorts of crap. A 30 min race would be won by an aluminum billet with wheels.... Have I been beaten by a BL before? Heck no but I would love to see the challenge pop up. And as for 30 minute mains... I do them every other week at the races like ER Speedway and the shoe. Whats the last thing I broke? rear shock tower... landed on by a Tmaxx off a 5 foot table :P I am not saying electric sux... because thats the babysitter that got me out of trouble and into the hobby. Oh and back to the 30 minute mains... only 2-3 cars drop out due to engine issues or just battery issues. Rarely is there a big break.... but sometimes we DO get fires. This thread is starting to get outta hand... the guy just wanted advice between an electric buggy and nitro buggy. Hook up with the majority... and race nitro. BUT find out what your local area drives most! For most offroad tracks, its mainly Nitro Stadiums... some might allow buggies in the same race. |
RE: Electric Vs. Nitro
hey rccars, have you raced at brookyln park? (twin cities raceway) i want to go there bad, but im in eagan and its a bit far to go to race..(its the closest place to me for on road though)...and the st 15 is actullay pretty good, i saw some vids of people bashing it, it get pretty good air.
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