Problems at the track
 

Me and my wife practiced for the day we could finally go to races. We fInally found the right day to race. We told them we had never raced nor did we have any experince at racing. 1st qualifer we came in the last two places. Second qualifer my wife jumped up to 5th place. We were told no rules (example not backing up once off the track) Then all of a sudden people started yelling at us during the second qualifer. While spotting for the next race after we again yelled at bt other racers (not getting there fast enough, Not getting one car over another). So during the finals we were both so nervous we went from 5t and 6th to dead last. This happened at Rotunda Raceway in Rotunda Florida. So I have many questions.

1) what general rules are there while racing. IE If you go out of bounds can you drive back on the track, what happens when you jump over to the next lane, why can't you back up if no one is behind you, Is hitting another car part of racing or cheating.

2. What is the right way to grab a nitro to put it back on the track. Front, back sideways. I noticed some kept thier car at full throttle while upside down. Couldn't this hurt the person picking it up.

Any help would be usefull. My wife is very upset as she was the only female racing and was afraid to break the rules. She drives very well and I think with more practice she could be a contender. As for me I had beeen up 24 hours my record with my wife is we split winning while practicing.

Is like this at all races? We love our rc cars but if this is how races are normally run my wife is rady to forget about it. I will show all responses to her. Please guys can you help us?

RE: Problems at the track
 

no reverse. rule of thumb at almost any track

if they are still reving it, regardless of what the driver says or does, dont touch it, if they want to pull that crap let them suffer, thats the rule at the track i go to, its a major safety issue and if the racers dont like it they can talk it over with the track owner. the best way to pick them up though is by the wing or front bumper, nose, etc, the sides are going to be hot from the pipe depending on the chassis and if its a 2wd truck or buggy avoid the tranny, also because of heat. if the car has a broken peice and is a hazard the driver may signal you to pull it from the track, also if its reving out of control you may need to stop the engine this can be done in an emergency by blocking the pipe or by stoping the flywheel

come on over to palm beach county, im sure its a heck of a drive but the track i go to is very friendly, we have a policy of "attitudes at the door"

i know a number of guys who quit racing at bigger tracks here in fl because of ppls attitudes, its a utter discrace. either way id talk to the club owner or president, that is bs that i would not stand for imo. and if someone is particularly nasty talk to them about it in the pits, they may not realize how poorly they are acting because they are so involved in the race.

heres the link to the track i race at we are all smiles and dont deal with the crud youve had to go through
http://www.southfloridadirtovalrc.com/

its a shame that you had to go through that, dont let it deter you from racing though. its a great way see what your cars made of (asside from plastic) and can be very challenging, in a good way;), dont give up.

as for the misses racing, dont let her get detered, we have a number of female racers of all ages who race with us and are right there in front with the best of them! we have for example one woman who's a grandmother of 2 and races a brushlesss losi 8t, a slash, and a baja 5b!

RE: Problems at the track
 

Unless they are a paid/sponsored driver at a Major race a driver has no reason to be yelling at another driver or marshal. Even then, it is in poor taste. If you've got a local guy at a weekend fun race who is screaming his fool head off, feel free to offer him a number of options as where he can stick it. Though, if you keep showing up to race and practicing like you are already doing, at some point you two will beat him on track. Then you can ask him, in a calm fashion, that if he sees you coming up to lap him, if he would politely move out of your way...

RE: Problems at the track
 

I hate people like that that are so dedicated and whatnot, that every little thing ticks em off ad they have to yell and fight with the new people, or people not that serious about racing.If you go to pick up someones truck and they have the throttle pinned, just leave it alone until they get off the throttle.One of those tires hitting you can do some damage.And generally your not supposed to back up during a race,

RE: Problems at the track
 

Wow that sounds like a terrible experience and very much to the contrary of my experience (1 race at WCRC here in SoCal). Here, people were very courteous and helpful in the pits with set-ups. It is frustrating to be a driver when the turn marshal is sitting there doing nothing while you're on your roof, so I can almost understand trying to get your attention if that's the case. But that's not usual. Definitely don't pickup a car, Nitro or electric for that matter if they've got the throttle pinned. Let them sit and if they yell, tell them to get off the throttle. Sometimes with Nitro cars, the throttle could stick and they didn't realize it, in which case they'll need to be pulled from the track anyway.

 As for no-reversing in races, to me it's an archaic rule and just another example of ROAR's inability to change with the times. Back in the day (80's) ESC's didn't have reverse, so to keep them from having a disadvantage over the manual speed control (much less reliable) cars, they simply disallowed cars to use reverse. In the 90's ESC's finally had the ability to use reverse, but the top of the line Racing use ESC's still did not. With the advances in technology, even the very best race dedicated ESC's have reverse now. Many of the times you need a turn marshal can be remedied by the use of reverse. Honestly, ROAR needs to get their heads on straight and take a serious look at this because with it, marshals would be less taxed and more likely to get to a car in time who really needs it and it would be MUCH safer for the turn marshals as well. I know turn marshaling isn't exactly the most dangerous thing in the world, but when they're busy turning someones car over or getting them from a wall that they could simply reverse from, their attention is taken away. If that happens near a large jump, a 10+ lb 1/8 scale Truggy hitting someone in the head can be VERY dangerous. From a safety point it just makes sense to allow reverse nowadays. But, since most tracks DON'T allow it to be used during a race, then don't use it. Most ESC's have "race" mode which doesn't allow the use of reverse so you don't even hit it by accident or out of habit.

 I used to race on-road for years and that type of mentality is really one of the things that drove me away from RC. I was very happy to see when I got back into it (this time OFF-ROAD), people were much nicer. Don't let it get you down, you guys did the right thing by telling the organizers the lack of experience that you and your wife had. THEY made mistakes by not informing you guys of pertinent rules because they take them for granted that all racers already know them, when infact it's just not true, everyone has to learn at some point. Go back, try again, if the same type of thing happens, then talk to the track owner and express your concerns and let him know that being ridiculed by other drivers most certainly wont make you a return customer and you'll go to another track (helps to use names) that you hear people are more helpful. Just like back in school when teachers had to real in the class because it got too rowdy, sometimes owners have to start "enforcing" rules that are already in place as drivers get more and more competitive. Good Luck!

RE: Problems at the track
 

I'm extremely sorry you had this experience but I can tell you that I have seen this many times before and it was the major reason I stopped racing back in early 2000. People became obnoxious and I got into more than a few arguments with stupid people. I don't know what kind of trucks you have but I can tell you that in most stock classes pretty much anything goes but your track might have different rules. Every stock race I've ever run You can back up. If you go off course you can drive back on etc. In MOD classes these things are typically not permitted. Check with the track for the class rules and live by them.

To answer your questions

1) In most stock classes yes you can back up. Yes you can drive back on track. And YES hitting another car is racing to a point. Don't run full throttle into someone but the occasional nudge is perfectly acceptable. Be aware that if you are running with people that have "race" level trucks like Associated and Losi tend to get a little bent out of shape as those trucks don't like being banged around.

2) Pick up a Nitro car by the front or rear bumper only. Don't grab the wheels as it could stall the motor and dont grab the sides or bottom as it could be hot or have a spinning flywheel. It is common for the wheels to continue to spin on a Nitro when it's on it's roof but gunning the throttle should not be tolerated. When this happens simply stop, put you hands in the air and look toward the drivers stand. They'll get the message. If they don't then let it sit.

As for spotting. Just fix the cars as fast as you can in the order you get to them. If there is mutiple trucks wrecked and one driver is yelling at you then skip his truck and come back to it. He'll get the message.

There will always be jerks at every track but in general most RC guys are laid back. What you experienced is not the norm at every track. I would suggest you talk to the race director and explain you issues. If he doesn't take action then simply tell him you're finding another track and walk away. I do suggest you stick to the stock classes for a season and perfect your skills.

RE: Problems at the track
 

Happens to nearly all beginners... basically the only rules (besides specs) are that you try not to run into other peoples cars, and try to move out of the way when passed, just be courteous. You can backup if reverse is allowed in that class (if not, you would be asked if you have reverse turned off), ignore whoever yells are you. Generally the people that get so agitated by that kind of thing are wannabe pros. You can pick a car up however you want, I grab the the front bumper around the a-arms... most of the lids on my tanks suck so it keeps gas from spilling all over my electronics. I find joy in irritating people like that, all they want to do is act experienced... a few "love taps" will generally put them in line. Talk to the manager, same thing happened when I took my girlfriend racing for the first time, I had already been doing it a while so I knew to ignore them... but the jerks yelling out her number in anger shook her up pretty bad and she didnt want to race after that. I talked to the manager. He had some errands to run that night so he left the shop and track open for us to run on alone for a few hours, he totally sympathized with us about the whole situation. I would suggest running in a stock or outlaw class... usually the stock class is just kids running into car and making the spotters work extra hard, outlaw class is guys that are sipping on a flask all night having a good time.

RE: Problems at the track
 

My advice would actually be "don't let it get to your head". Kinda the ugly side of racing. Many of the more established tracks / clubs have a kinda 'hazing' type ritual they put first time racers through. Having your wife beat at least a few guys on the track might have had something to do with it too. Think of a 'good ol' boys' club and suddenly a newbie shows up and beats or shows up a few on the track. They start to feel very threatened and have to do the mind games, etc. to regain their own composure. Best thing to do is to ignore it all.

Blaming the marshalling or yelling at the marshalls is actually pretty standard, it's just part of the sport. Just shrug it off, make it obvious you're being as nonchalant as you can as to not encourage them. 'Bad' marshalling isn't going to hurt the contenders b'cos the contenders aren't going off the course a lot to begin with.

Hitting the other trucks is basically part of the game, especially for the newer races like SCT trucks. But don't overdo it, hitting the other trucks isn't the way to win the race b'cos it hurts both of you. Learn the 'mind games' yourself, learn to use the threat of collisions to your advantage, ie. if you can get a strong start, get in front and take the optimum line, anticipate passes and dare others to hit you. But don't sacrifice yourself during the quals, save it for the race when anything goes.

You're not supposed to be able to 'get ahead' by jumping over track barriers or going off and on the track. Some tracks have an honor policy here, others have a rule of letting the truck you were behind and then one more truck pass you before you pull back in the race. Some tracks just don't care (but this isn't an excuse to flaunt it or test / abuse the policy).

No reversing is mostly just for safety, it keeps the trucks moving in predictable ways and keeps the marshals or others from getting injured mostly. Some tracks care and some don't.

RE: Problems at the track
 

must admit i didnt read the entire thread. BUT why didnt the the track give the new people a sheet of paper with the rules ect? blame the track owner not the new people.

RE: Problems at the track
 

 i guess there is snobs everywhere. this i a hobby not life or death.  this hobby is here for fun.  when i turn marshal  i turn other peoples cars like i would want them to turn mine over. after a while when you learn things it gets better.  you will learn about run aways.  i got a big thanks  and the driver bought ma a coke a cola when i stoped his 500.00 moter when the throdle servo got stuck wide open.   i got to it soon enought to shut it off before it did any damage..  always remember turn marshals is not perfect  they do make mistakes. when there is 10-20 cars going around  they can not keep up with all at the same time.  the other week i was turn marshling the sportsman buggy race  a drivers pit guy started to get mad at me because i picked up th car shut it off  till he seen why i shut it off  the left rear  a arm was broke totally into.  he apoligized politely, in the heat of a race things will happen,   dont stop racing in this hobby because of  the inpolite people.  before you yell at a turn marshal find out why he or she done what they did  they probally are doing the right thing.  saving you from furter damage.  guess im very fortuniate to race withthe ones that are here. i have had no problems    and i am new to racing also. i have only raced in 2 events.  the one that helped me set up my sct  i race against  and i did finish ahead of him 2 weeks ago.  that will happen  all he said was  to me   good race.  he was also running one of my batteries   his charger messed up.   im going to be moving up to the sportsman buggys soon    all those guys are helping me get started.   i was practicing the other day  then the guy that usually always places  1st or second got there  and he worked with me   for about 3 hours  showing me the ropes.he is not scared of competion.  he helped me improve the handling of my buggy and showed me how and why he made the changes to my buggy.  and told me if i ever need any help  just let him know.    we started racing each other and i was able to keep up with him.  when we first started out he could lap me easy.  it is true there is no replacement for experience.  but everyone was a newbie  a t one time  always remember that.  like i said before this is a hobby   have fun.

RE: Problems at the track
 

In over 20 years of racing, including national and international events, I have never once been given a "sheet of paper with the rules ect".

Realistically, it's the obligation of the racers or wanna-be racers to know the rules. New people seemingly never ask, yet always get baffled by them in the beginning.

RE: Problems at the track
 

As I read through your complaints it seems to me that your biggest problem was that you just showed up, as it is my opinion that the best thing people that are interested in racing can do is to spend a couple of race days at the track overviewing what goes on and how things work, ask the experienced guys, and learn the ropes before jumping in with both feet. It's kind of like swimming, you generally don't show up at the pool the first time and jump in the deep end with the sharks which is pretty much what you did.

Your first mistake appeared to be while you were "turn marshalling" (what you called "spotting"), and while it may not seem like a big deal now I will just suggest that the biggest aggrevation to racers are unattentive or slow or lacksidasicalmarshals/spotters. My advice would be to do it like you would want your own car attended to after a wreck, and if you want to get marshalled slowly then proceed with whatever it is that caused the drivers to yell, and if you want to not get yelled at to be attentive to the task at hand and do it quickly as possible. Part of it is that you're new, and going through a learning curve, and right now you probably looked like a couple of deer in the headlights while out there marshalling.

<div id="TixyyLink" style="border-bottom: medium none; text-align: left; border-left: medium none; background-color: transparent; color: #000000; overflow: hidden; border-top: medium none; border-right: medium none; text-decoration: none">Relative to your specific questions:
1) No, you can not drive back onto the track once your car has left the boundary of the track, you have to wait to get marshalled. The problem with driving back onto the track is that chances are you may jump right out in front of or wreck a fellow competitor. Not cool at all if you think about it happening to you, and why it's against the rules.
The longtime rules for RC racing, since the early days of RC, includes "no reverse" on the track. Think of it like if you were driving down the street in your real car. Would you be pleased at all if suddenly the car in front of you flashed on it's backup lights and it started backing up to go into the BurgerKing parking lot they just drove by? Same principal applies to racing.
About "is hitting another car part of racing or cheating," watch any other form of racing on television and think about what the other driver's reaction is if another driver hits them. Simple enough to figure out.

2) There really is no good way to grab any car, let alone a nitro, other than in the middle so as to avoid the wheels. So you understand, nitros do no have fuel pumps, so if a driver does not keep the throttle pegged while the car is upside down it will stall out from lack of fuel. Now, the considerate thing is for them to let off the gas when a marshall approaches or gets ready to reach down and flip over their car. If they don't, then don't touch it.

There are plenty of online resources so as to study up on The Rules, http://www.roarracing.org/is the national ruling body and a good place to start.
Otherwise I would suggest walking around the pits and becoming friendly with the other drivers, apologize to the ones that may be angry or may have yelled, and tell them you're a rookie and would appreciate their input on helping you and your wife learn the rules and proper on-track behavior.

Keep in mind that RC racingcan bea very mentally taxing, pressurefilled,and stressfull hobby, so some people handle it better and some don't. Some get angry at the least little thing, and some stay cool under the pressure. It's part of racing, I don't care what kind of racing you're talking about be it RC racing or real car racing. Racing can be serious business, and some people have several hundreds if notthousands invested and don't appreciate being crashed. The thing that aggrevates me the most at the track is a new person that drives like a crazy person, all over the place, with no care about anybody else or any other cars on the track.
Remember, just like driving on the street, there are "rules of the road" you have got to follow. Everybody does. If not, all you're left with is anarchy.


Have fun at the track, I try do :)
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RE: Problems at the track
 

I don't know where you get your info, but reversing back into the racing line or track is either specifically against the rules, or highly frowned on, in EVERYform of racing. Not just RC racing. It's all about not backing into the race lane or race line and blocking a competitor or causing a wreck doing it. Back before we had ESCs, all themechanical speed controls we used at the time had reverse. Even the early 1980s era ESCs had reverse. The only ones that didn't were the race-specific ones since using reverse was/is against the rules. There was no sense in including the needed circuitry, or added weight and cost, needed to make a reversing race-quality ESC. The ONLY reason more of the top of the line ESCs today have reverse is for the bashers that also buy them, and because of the advances of micro circuitry has made it so it doesn't require extra circuit boards - but ALLrace-spec ESC on the market has a "reverse lockout" option still in place for the racers. You really should study up on your rc history and understanding of racing. ;)

The whole idea of racing is not crashing and wrecking, and if drivers were doing their jobs there'd be no need to use reverse. Ever.
Reverse is for backing your car out of the driveway, period. :D

RE: Problems at the track
 

i agree with mrgoodbar     wrecking isnt racing.      but  it happens with the best of drivers.  some tracks here hare a class for beginners which helps new racers learn the rules and be better drivers. i watched  about half the season last year before i started racing.  it helped me learn the ropes of the tracks.    where i race at  we help each other, doesent matter what class we race in.   i have loaned out parts  and i have had to borrow parts.      heck  i loaned out my tires last week  to a pro buggy because  his tires busted.           ive only been in this hobby for around 6 months and have made  a lot of friends.       on my 2 races ive had  i only got my truck bed to use in the pits    both times  my competors has let me use their tables to use in the pits  we share    and help each other  when we get on the track its better racing for all of us  no matter who wins or looses.   heck where we race at   the pay out is the same for 1st  to last.   we race for fun and to promote the hobby.  there is money races at our tracks  but we treat eatch other with respect no matter if its a money race or a fun race.3 weeks ago we had a money race  and the pro truggy winner got 100.00   he ordered 100.00 worth of pizza for all of us.    we had a good after race get together.     i havent won a race yet  the closest i got was 2nd  but   both races was fun.yes i turned over some   made mistakes  but i am still learning.        to the original post   please dont quit racing because of  the first experience.      we are trying to get the wifes of the driver at our track to race   we have talked about trying a ladies class  to race their husband  of boy friends cars.     but anyone can enter the races  here.       when i first started turnmarsheling   several drivers showed me how to turn over and handle the cars to avoid having problems. and getting hurt.  on the buggys  and truggys  to turn them over by the wing mounts  and what to look for  while turning over     ask questions  learn.   always treat others cars as you would want them to handle yours  you will never go wrong doing that.    i have spent lots of tiime looking for parts for other drivers that broke  and lost parts on the track.

RE: Problems at the track
 

this happens at every track , you race period. do what ever it takes to get to the finish line first that is what i have learned , there is no nice guy or gal at the track , if they scream at the turn marshal tell them to f off or dont crash . when i started racing 2 years ago i was the same way , but now if they yell at me i flick them off and take my time turn marshaling its pretty obvius that they suck at driving if they are up side down . there a bunch of toys and no one is getting 100,000 to win the race . lighten up or quit and sell your toys

RE: Problems at the track
 

You of all the replies did not understand the post. 1st we clearly made known we had never raced, did not know the procedures. and no we did not even know about transponders. I had to poke a hole in our lids with a pen I had in the car. I personally asked at least 10 people for help but they were too busy getting their cars ready. Me and my wife knew how to get around the track without going crazy. Because when we race each other we learned fast that flipping over means walking out and getting them ourselves. We also stayed out of each others way because broke cars ment no more racing which we love. As i said in my post my wife was in 5th ahead of much more experinced drivers on her first time out. When we marsheled I know I hustled for each and every car but I was on a corner that at least every driver hit the post or needed to be turned back over. I do not care what anyone says picking up a car with the car at ful throttle is idiotic. You might as well put your hand in a blender and hope you do not get cut. As for ROar rules. No help at this track. I could have had a mamba on my slash and they would not have known. The whole point of the post was if you know someone is new give them a hand, point them to someone who can help them. Have a little empathy. This race had no awards, it was not for money. In the greater scheme of things it ment absolutly nothing yet despite our pleas for help, despite us telling them we were as new as could be, not one person out of 50 people offered help. WHOamong us wants that kind of treatment. I doubt my wife will ever want to race at an event again. And me like an idiot thought we could getsomeone to help us. Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do09qYKzYvAand watch how I drive. Except now I can do it on the race profile on the slash. By the way thier novice class was was 7-10 yo kids who would race withe kids as we would have been 1st with out even trying. So the next time you see a novice offer a hand or advice. That was the whole point of the post.

RE: Problems at the track
 

One final question, I had to change a shock after the first qualifer. How are you supposed to correct your stearing if you make a change to your setup if your not supposed to turn on your transmitter betwean races. I did not know this rule and did correct the stearing as it was going way tword the side i changed. Had I not did that I would have went off the track for the whole race.

RE: Problems at the track
 

Oh, I know you. You're the guy that never makes the A-Main and everybody talks about you behind your back for your unsavory behavior. And when you wreck, which you do quite often, I "conveniently" ignore your car/truck and turn and look the other way and everybody intentionally makes sure you get marshalled last. You're not good for racing, and you get treated accordlingly. :) lol

RE: Problems at the track
 

I understood your post just fine, I remember the first times I went to the track, but instead of whining or complaining how things operated or ignoring properon-track etiquette I actually went out and asked people at the track so I wouldn't look like an idiot and then cry about it later and so I wouldn't look stupid and get yelled at. You apparently have chose otherwise, and why I posted so as to help you out. I suppose the best thing for you to do is to not race, because you don't get it. Otherwise, I don't believe you or that it was as bad as you're making it out to be, and instead your complaints seem like those of the geek in highschool that whined when the cool kids wouldn't allow them in the club. You newbie slash racer wanna-bees are messing up the racing at tracks all over the country, it's quite an active topic on many discussion boards, because of your poor driving and wrecking other racers, bad behavior, lazy ways, and entitled attitudes. I seriously doubt you could even beat the 7-10 yo kids, you just think you could.:Drofl

RE: Problems at the track
 

You are nothing. Your comment shows your ignorance. I'm willing to bet you are compesating for your many shortcomings. Go post on something you have knowlege on. I laugh at your moronic post.

RE: Problems at the track
 

I tried to help, but you're one of those whose ears don't work and doesn't pay attention when they do. Typical current generation kid behavior. LOL
Little wonder you had "Problems at the track." :D

RE: Problems at the track
 

I'm sick of garbage like that. There's a handful of us who don't tolerate a lack of sportsmanship at our track, and we'll get vocal about it if someone is being a dink...especially when they are being a pain in the butt to people who have never been there before and don't know the ropes as well as everyone else.

Other people who were regulars at your track really need to grow a pair and learn how to tell people to shut up sometimes. i used to have more patience about it, but we're talking about the difference between growing someone's passion for the hobby, and completely turning them away from it.

RE: Problems at the track
 

Did you even read this guy's original posts? No, you weren't even a member of RCU when the discussion came up. This guy is being an absolute gentleman about things, and simply wanting to know what he did wrong and how to fix it. He tried to talk to people at the track but got ignored by people who should have been there to at least make it a welcoming experience for him and his wife.

It's fools like you who make RCU and the RC community look immature and childish. Learn some social skills, and actually lend a helping hand rather than trash talk your way to 70 posts in one day, and then following up by saying it's just everyone else being dumb.

RE: Problems at the track
 

:D please your car never finishes i seen it on its lid , you should put tires there since its there so often , try a new car your speed like a newbrite.

RE: Problems at the track
 

Did YOU even read my initial response to the guy's original post?No, of course you didn't, you were in too big a hurry to reply with something rude. IWAS an absolute gentleman about things, and tried to lead him down the path to how things actually work at the track. If you had bothered reading my in initial response you would have know that, but instead you used the forum just how it shouldn't be. I have raced at tracks all over this country, and the world, and I have never been anywhere where the locals acted as he said - EVER. But I still tried to explain things, meanwhile you added nothing.

It's fools like you that make a mess of discussion forums and make the RC community look like a bunch of confrontational idiots. Learn some social skills, and maybe learn to READ, and actually add something to the forum instead of using it as a way to vent your excess anger and hostility. Its makes you look a lot less dumb that way and less immature.