RE: Is combat dead?
 

I think the solution is lasertag. The reason I haven't tried combat is I don't want to risk a midair. Put some sort of lasertag system on the planes, transmitters where the guns would mount and receivers on various spots of the fuse, wings and engine area, and rig it to release smoke when hit*. Grey smoke = damaged, black smoke = you've been shot down. It also allows you to integrate FPV and much larger models into the fun. I, for example, would absolutely love to use lasertag on a 40-60 size FPV-equipped P51 or P47. It would make for an amazing dogfight methinks, not to mention the footage would be bloody awesome to watch.


*I do realize that this would mean electric flyers would need to use pyro equipment, which goes against the AMA. But I'm sure they'll figure something out. Doesn't bother me, if it isn't ICE powered it isn't in my hangar.

Your country isn't several thousand miles across either. Matter of fact, your homeland is smaller than my home state, and TN is nowhere near the largest in the union. Your gas may be eight bucks a gallon but you can run border to border on a single tank in a bog standard family car, something you just simply can not do in America. The most you can do is make it across a single state, though if you hit one like Texas even then it's not likely unless you imported a supermini or something. Even the likes of the Prius or Jetta TDI would struggle, if you hit traffic or something you're going to be refueling soon.

Stop for a minute and think just how bloody enormous the States are. There is not a car on this planet that can run NYC to LA on one tank. Just running Canada to Mexico requires serious customization and an engine so puny and underpowered it barely makes the speed limit. Hell, most of our states are bigger than the Netherlands! So while our gas may be considerably cheaper than yours, it still costs more, significantly more, to drive across America, and this is assuming the same machine is used both times and driven by the same person.

Now stop being a smug pain in everyone's backside, you give Europeans a bad name when you say things like this.



Also, it was $2.98/gal last time I filled up.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Why would you want to avoid midairs?  They're BEAUTIFUL.  Specially if the planes involved are made of beaded styrofoam.  The snow will come down for minutes.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

That's it Bill!
Combat is just an excuse to has an AUDIENCE to watch a spectacular mid-air!
I truly enjoyed getting as well as giving! It is all part of the show and part of the risk.

@378 let's not bash someone for pointing out facts. Really, how often do you drive from the east coast to the west , or Canada to Mexico? If you do it a lot then my hats off to you. It's more common that we stay in our regions which is the equivalent of a European combat pilot driving from Sweden to Germany for a meet. What is impressive is that for several years we've had Russian combat pilots come to Muncie to participate in the NATS.
I've flown with some of the Australian combat pilots who have long drives to get to meets. It's great to fly in the summer heat in January!

Let's do some flying!

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Combat is not raelly gone, but you wont see as much at the flying field. People nowadays get their combat fix on the realflight simulators combat mode. There is also a streamer cut on RF so you dont have to put your planes on the line to get in some combat.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Look, I hate to have to be the one to tell you, but you were going to find out sometime.

Video Games, including Real Flight, Suck. You'll spend hours and hours on your butt doing NOTHING. No accomplishment whatsoever.

Combat on video games? That's like the Kobayashi Maru on Star Trek. There is no real threat. No real chance of damage. If you can't really lose you can't win. The decline of this nation, I'm afraid, didn't start with long hair, or drugs. It started with Battle Zone. Was hastened with Donkey Kong. And sealed with Duke Nukem. We've done nothing but sit on our butts and play games ever since as the only people who actually knew how to be productive got old and died.

Put it away. Go out and buy yourself some fanfold and build 6 or 7 planes equipped and hand 2 of them to some buddies and make them use their receivers. Then have them come over and help make replacements. You'll be playing REAL combat in the REALworld and having REALfun. Not paying some nerd 150 bucks for an idiotic program to sit in front of.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

I've maintained a fleet of RTF 1/2A combat planes for the last 10 years with very little behind the scenes involvement besides simple airframe repairs. Most planes get tossed into the burn barrel due to fuel soakage before they are considered total losses unworthy of simple repairs with some scrap balsa and packing tape.
I've never had any engines destroyed, servos ruined, or any other "high dollar" casualties other than the time it takes to patch things up.
Mid airs suck. They cost us pleasure seekers who have limited free time to devote to this hobby in wasted time that you can never get back.
Never get that time back. Flying slow and light limits your exposure to the risk of ruining the fun.
Time is our most precious asset, once it is spent, you can never get it back.
Several guys who woulda, coulda, shoulda been life long combat flyers got burned out and "off putted" by the endless battle to keep a fleet of planes ready to go because of the mentality that bigger and faster is more fun.
Bigger and faster IS more fun. If I was wealthy enough, I'd find a group of guys who would like to fly combat with full scale retired jetliners, like 747s.
As an average guy with limited time and money, I've sought out the most intelligent and practical way to get the most combat time with the least invested.
I'd say that so far I've done pretty good. I'll bet my ratio of prep time to actual combat time beats the "high speed jousters" and "chicken players" with their 90 mph set ups, 2 to 1.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

So in short you want the desk jockeys to "GET REAL". Works for me:D
If that ticks any one off well I'll meet you at the field and don't forget your plane;) LOL
Yep, they be missin the REAL FUN[8D]

RE: Is combat dead?
 

OzMo, I'll bet we would have a great day of flyin, either at your place or mine... ;)

I don't know why I bother with this forum. The track record of hundreds of "combat minutes" with no serious mishaps has already been flown and will continue to be flown, regardless of what others who have never tried it will think.
Lou Melancon told me that he tried 1/2A combat once and all they did was "rub wing tips".
Whatever that means, it sounds more like like he needed more practice or lighter planes.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

He needs more practice . . . :D

RE: Is combat dead?
 

The proof is in the pudding. How is "your sport" doing as designed as we speak...??
The RC Combat wisdom that I was "reared on" dates back 20 years before the RCCA was even a slowly burning coal in the fire box. Guys back then had already experimented with the usual stuff and come to the conclusion that RC combat needed to be engineered for as low impact as possible with the maximum amount of streamer chasing as could be had for the time and money invested.
You don't have to be too smart to see the wisdom behind this line of thought.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Combat Dead?
No Way !

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" :D
(Quote from John Belushi from Animal House.;))

All you need is two planes and two streamers !
Then keep the planes even performing,(and cheap) and others will join in...

CP, I respect your opinions, but, Pursuit (80mph)Maac WW2 Scale Combat is not "High Speed Jousting". It is a learned Art.
Proof:
Final Round, 10th Onslaught over Ontario Dec.11th 2011: 8 planes up. (click on video 2011 bottom left)
http://www.cobblehillsfightergroup.ca/

(Any video of Combat is crap. I love the 3-D sound of the 8 engines, plus the 2X.15 Me 110 [8D] !)
Maac WW2 is an easy sell.
We will be 'selling' our WW1s at Funflys and Scale Meets to make a big Event, starting 2014 !;)

WW1 is freaky cool !

Coro constuction is amazing and I am just following the trend here. (I am actually 10yrs behind finishing off my balsa/ply/foam planes !;)

I just realized, I am Lucky.

To have someone to Combat.

My Goal is to fly WW1 Combat, and get spectators to watch.


Take care,
Have fun,
Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
Maac 6437
Unabashed Combat Team




)

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Call it what you will, but the proof is in the aftermath.
When you are spending more time flying combat than you are building and repairing, then I suppose you have found a class of combat that makes some sort of sense to you and to others.
It is those "others" who we need to keep the sport alive, since it is pretty boring if all you can find to fly combat against is a pile of tethered helium balloons.
Be honest with yourself and tabulate all the hours that go into getting a fleet of your planes ready for battle versus the actual combat time you and your buddies get out of flying that 80 mph stuff and then tell me for certain that a lighter and slower type of combat wouldn't get you a better return on your investment of time and money.
In 1 weekend I typically get 6 to 8 hours worth of actual combat air time with planes that do not have the kinetic energy to break crank cases, obliterate servos, bury engines so deep you need a shovel to dig them out, etc.
I've flown Big, Heavy and Fast and I've also flown Small, Light and Slow...both with control line and RC.
The subject of this thread is pretty simple and hard to deny. All I've done is demonstrate a format that is easy to do, costs very little in terms of time and money and also happens to be the most successfull, action packed days I've spent with the least amount of damage.
You can talk about your "Learned Art" as if it is some sort of Holy Grail...but you aren't kidding anyone but yourself.
Until you've flown what I'm talking about, you won't have a clue.
Have fun doing what you do...I've done similar, back in the 704 days and moved on from that...knowing that there had to be something with a better return on the time and money invested.
That event never came close to 1:1 work to fun time ratio...probably more like 10:1 if you were lucky with some planes.
I'm talking actual "combat time"...not time "jaw jacking" in the pits, unpacking your car, or refueling.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Hi CP,

If you want 1hr 'work'=1hr flying time for a goal... Try a Stryker electric pusher RTF.
Get a portable generator and call a Match. Pilots will show up. It will be fun. There will be some "Jaw Jacking' in the pits while recharging/repairing.;)
(Make sure to count the time you have to work to afford buying in)
But... Easy Come,Easy Go.

Personally, I like building model airplanes. My spare time creating a cool flying machine is a joy for me.
RC Combat is a chance to fly the bags off them ! I do not care about winning. If I toast a plane, there is more room to build another.:D
I also have many friends I have met over the years. And learned allot ![8D]

The RCCA Safety Rules are Great. A big Thank You to whoever came up with them. They work flawlessly here and make it 'easy' to put a Match on...

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
Maac 6437
Unabashed Combat Team

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Hi CP,
I (we) hear you on the "Light is Might/Low Kinetic Energy".

Has anyone come up with a practical/cheap electric version of a Cox .049?

It would be easy to create a class from there.

And very easy to sell !

Our 'impractible' WW1s suffer on windy days. (It is fun though!)

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
Maac 6437
Unabashed Combat Team

RE: Is combat dead?
 

CC,
The guys did a great job creating the rules.
I'll have to get my SSC's and Open B's together and fly with my buds again.
Clean never comes this far north so i'll have to head south for some action!
Scott
Pappy
RCCA #108

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Hi Scott,

R/C Combat is the most fun you can have with a model airplane.

It does not matter what type of plane. (Scale,Open, SSC, etc...)

It is getting out flying with good friends and meeting new ones.


The Who/What/When is easy !

The Why is the Fun Part to figure out !:D

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
Maac 6437
Unabashed Combat Team

RE: Is combat dead?
 

This year at our club we will be sponsoring 10 CL combat events. I am not sure what class this is but they do not have to wear helmets, and use 35 ft lines, maybe you guys can tell me what class that is...
I know at least one of them is a eastern regional event with guys up and down the east coast attending.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

I think a rectangular winged foamie with a pusher motor could get guys involved with limited time and money......and who don't like to build.?

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Sounds like a good low stress type of setup!

I found out what type of combat events we host, just got an email regarding the dates. There are actually two types of events, F2d combat and GX combat...

CP as an aside just started building a SD, LS version...

RE: Is combat dead?
 

OK,

I'm a CL Combat flyer from way back when...
(Anyone remember McCoy .35 Redheads and hand flipping them?;))

I would ask at the electric forum here on RCU for an electric version of a Cox.049.

But,
I'm a dedicated 'slimer', and proud of it.
And prefer running engines, rather than motors...:D

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
Maac 6437
Unabashed Combat Team

RE: Is combat dead?
 

As a public note to Mr. Crosscheck.  There are still a few guys doing the control line combat thing in Dresden Ont. and Centennial Park in Etobicoke. That is close to you.  The 80 mph combat is mostly F2D planes($50) with an LA .25 (the new McCoy.35) and is fairly popular.  Check the Balsa Beavers site for dates. (I hope I can say that here)   Some local guys do Stryker combat/pylon racing, as well as the electric jets.  The props don't do damage but usually they break and that is the end of things for a while. A 400 electric is about the same as an .049.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Strykers are just high speed jousting until one of them gets totalled with an ill timed "herk, jerk, zig or, zag".

Highly tapered wings don't pick off streamers too well.

What I do like about the idea of electric combat is the speed can be perfectly governed and the motors could be run at a fraction of their max output. No oil to interfere with quick repairs
is an obvious plus.
Slow, tight and light furball activity invites moving the action in closer. I've always wanted enforcable limits to a real tight flight box to keep the action turning and burning.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

...

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Again with the shooting the light beams crap?

Oh, I forgot, it's an original idea only found one place.  Which of course has at least 6 versions posted in this forum itself.

Good luck to you, I hope you find a magic bullet that makes it feasible.  It's wonderful enough trying to figure out how far out and how far behind a persons airplane it is required to get your plane on his streamer.  I can only guess how easy it will be to line up a light beam.   People will be ramming each other just to end the match.

I haven't heard much from the guy who was going to build a giant flying runway to launch and land electrics off of lately either.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

he disapeared Clean, I havnt seen him in quite a while

RE: Is combat dead?
 

The only way the light beam idea works for me is if there is POV flying and a way to determine distance between target and shooter for maximum effective range. There also needs to be a very limited amount of "ammo" to shoot.
Somebody will come up with an entertaining and fairly realistic way of doing this with actual models instead of just a video game....it's just a matter of time. How to package it into an economicaly feasible package is the key. I'd also like to see an invisible fence set up to keep the action confined to whatever sized combat box I desire. Stray outside the box and lose points by the second.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

With all the negative publicity on FPV flight I think this is dead unless you can do it in your living room and keep the weight to less than a Vapor. If you can do that, great , otherwise there is another thread for Fantasy Island. . .

RE: Is combat dead?
 

I'd be comfortable doing it with models of limited size and speed. It would possible to see indoor electric planes rigged up like this someday.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

</p>

RE: Is combat dead?
 

If you use small planes its nothing to look at.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

...

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Sorry it comes out harsh, but I can't count the number of times someone has 'come up' with the old shooting each other out of the sky concept. CP is right, you really need point of view AND you need to be able to look around at the same time. That technology is getting closer and closer every day but is still a chunk of money to put down for airplanes that can very well smash into each other loosing everything even when they're light like those in CP's description. The first time I heard of it was someone that had just run into the Koola Fran and Olie show where they shot a diamond smuggling trainer out of the sky with Dart shooting Spitfires. That was back in the day when if you DIDN'T get 6 radio hits a day it was a miracle (the KFand O show not when the idea was brought up here). There were those little electric systems with the sonic shooters on them about 5 years ago, those worked pretty good I heard for low powered, wide beam, more coincidence then intent play though I won't sell short others vastly better capabilities then mine. I have always rated my abilities as the average sport pilot with a bunch of practice and with a lot of combat experience it is just obvious how little feel for depth perception one has at any distance that the average combat range is.

So when you come into this thread "is combat dead" pimping your new "old" idea I reply with the same, less then hopeful response. Did you even do a search for this idea on this forum itself? If you did and your idea is something totally different and feasable unlike the others, why not start your own thread and explain how your system would be different? Instead, you direct us to a different link, using spaces to keep from making a link to another site from this site, a site that for all we know is just a bug vault waiting to load trojans onto our machines.

In short, your message was spam. You creatively laid a link in there and you are all too offended that we, or at least I, have seen this idea so many times that it's like listening to a 5 year old explain Santa's magical sleigh to me as if THAT was a real option as well.

You got a system that works, post a thread with a link and maybe even some demonstration photos/vids in it and if it's a better mousetrap, well then we'll all probably come. Try to slide it in on us and my 'You're about to be screwed' monitor goes off.

But yes, I was a little gruff with you on this idea for the above reasons. I'm also very brand sensitive in the SPAD forum when someone comes up, says SPADs suck I built one, yada yada and when you get right down to it somebody has gone out, picked up some coroplast, manipulated it so that it looked something like an airframe and then points the blame at everyone elses work when it's NOT a SPAD, NOT really and Airframe and the total NOOB doesn't even know the first thing about flying, lift vs weight, thrust vs drag, how to make a living because they're still living like they're 13 in their parents house even though the final age could vary well be in their 30's.

Gotta remind myself to be a kinder, gentler Clean.

So, if you are none of the above and I've totally misjudged you, you have my apologies. Elsewise, the egress is on your left through the souvenir shop. I hope you've enjoyed your time in Combatland. We hope all your future Combat missions end with acres of streamers around your wingtips. Good day.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Gotta love it! :D

RE: Is combat dead?
 

...

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Well if you can't dazzle em with diamonds.....

Like Isaid, start a thread if your something is just so special that us combat guys will want to do it ORadd it onto one of the other dead links that discuss your ideas, requires a search function to be used. Just quit hijacking someone elses thread for your puposes. It's not like you desinged a Flipper or sumptin.

I've no doubt that when technology finally gets to the place where I can put a unit on an airplane that costs so little that Iwouldn't mind throwing it away, folks will try the air to air combat. Till then you'll find my conversation on Twitter at #Stillapipedream

RE: Is combat dead?
 

No no, wait, I read your patent.  You can read my thoughts on that at #TheyreallyWILLletyoupatentjustaboutanythingwon'tt hey?

RE: Is combat dead?
 

...

RE: Is combat dead?
 

Welcome to what we call RC combat.  You see, it's a simple little thing that grew out of CL combat really.  Take a couple planes, maybe more, of the same type, tie a piece of string around the tail and a piece of streamer to that and try to cut one with the other.  They don't have to be the same class plane, but it's better if they are competition wise.  It's really kinda fun to put just anything up there against anything.  You'd be surprised how many times a trainer can get the advantage of a Fun Fly airplane.  As for the types there are little bitty weight nothings that really can take running into each other because there's little kinetic energy involved.  There's faster planes that are built a bit more rugged to take the hit and there's other planes that go fast but won't take any hit whatsoever.  Folks spend as little or as much as they want on their planes realizing that the mere fact they are trying to get the airplanes into the same area increases the chance of a midair.  But all in all it's quite fun and requires little to no special equipment.  Somebody came along about 10-15 years ago and though maybe, just maybe, we ought to have a safety set back and some hard hats.  Just in case several of us actually had a brain cell or two left in their heads.

Electrics showed up and now we're chasing quite airplanes around and either going after little streamers OR just knocking the other guy out of the air altogether.  Like slope combat there generally isn't enough kinetic energy to harm the planes save a prop tearing it up and all damage can usually be repaired with a hot glue gun, some time and maybe just a little ingenuity (read that as more hot glue!)

This has pretty much been combat since the dawn of Control line flight and it's a HOOT.

Now, if you've developed something that you want to bring to the masses, START YOUR OWN THREAD!

In it, give us some pictures, some description, some feasabiltys.  Costs, design, the whole smear.  I don't go to the AMA forums especially anything that is members only.  Doesn't do me any good to keep my ideas to myself if I'm going to go play with other people that may not use the AMA as an insurance carrier.  While I am a Contest Director for the AMA, there are things that they do that I either don't agree with or flat out rub me raw.  Nevertheless, you're not going to get to many people by just posting things on one forum then going to other places and saying they need to go there.  Provide the information here and at other forums.  You can cut and paste most of it, but don't use this silly tactic to drive people from this forum that we love to another forum that we really don't care about.

And if you're not willing to do that basic bit of foot work, ta hell with your idea.  I'll not do your footwork for you!  But I will read your thread in this forum OR over on SPADworld or maybe even RCGroups.  Where is your thread on RCCA's forum?  Seems that if you were going to do something with combat you'd focus on the AMA's SIG forum.  You getting the picture sparky?  SHARE, don't just trick and get all pissy when I don't fall for it.  Put in some effort advertising or keep it to yourself.  It actually IS a matter of I don't have the time to chase down your hinted at links.  Put it here or forget about it.  YOU are the one that isn't sharing.

I can keep typing analogies OR you could just make a thread.  Won't you please contribute something besides I am too lazy?<br type="_moz"/>

RE: Is combat dead?
 

By the way, after typing all that garbage up above to show my discontent, I did just go check to see if he had made a thread yet.  It'd really have errked me if after typing, editing and retyping for 15 minutes if he had already done what I was chastising him for.  Tells us it's over on the AMA forum but doesn't give us a link.  Doesn't care to post any of it here either. 

grmble grmble.  See, I try being nice and they just don't take the hint.

RE: Is combat dead?
 

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