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Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

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Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

Old 06-01-2004, 10:55 AM
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Mike01
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Default Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

My question, I suppose, is why do people need plastic tires that have no grip when real drifters use rubber?

It seems to me that using plastic tires to drift is like using a helicopter to rock crawl.

I can drift my Super RS4 using hard rubber tires and a powerfull motor in a dusty parking lot. It's hard, and I can't always do it right, but isn't that the point? Isn't that why drifting is a sport? Because it's hard?
Old 06-01-2004, 12:24 PM
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Vroom_Pssst
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

the point is that most drifting is done with electric motors.......and most electrics cant break rubber tires loose.......also........drifters use rubber tires yes, but they have alot more power than we do
Old 06-01-2004, 03:17 PM
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Mike01
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

If you were to take a 1/10 scale electric car and enlarge it, somehow magically keeping all of it's scale properties, it would be a hell of a lot more powerful than a full scale car...any full scale car.

Keep in mind that a 1/10 car travelling at 30mph is the same as a full scale (1/1) car travelling at approx 300mph.

A 10 turn motor would rip rubber tires loose on asphault with a blip of the throttle. Soft rubber tires would hook up eventually, but hard rubber could be kept slipping. Also, using the wrong compound foam tires would work as well.

The trick would be to keep them loose...hense the sport of drifting.

I guess I answered my own question...using plastic "cheat" tires makes it easier, plus it allows the use of cheaper equipment. A 20 turn motor would probably have a hard time drifting with rubber tires.

Sorry to waste the bandwidth...I was just curious. I think I'll go rock crawling with my helicopter now.
Old 06-07-2004, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

ORIGINAL: Mike01

If you were to take a 1/10 scale electric car and enlarge it, somehow magically keeping all of it's scale properties, it would be a hell of a lot more powerful than a full scale car...any full scale car....
if you scale an rc car to full size it would only way around 50 lbs.
Old 06-07-2004, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

HAHA, helicopter to rock crawl, good one

Just like the gy above me said. 1/10 nitro we'll say has like 1hp avg. On a full scale car that would be only 10HP! So to counterbalance that, you should use a tire with 1/10 the grip of a 1/10 tire. That will be pertty much equal....get it?
Old 06-07-2004, 02:10 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

Think power to weight, instead.
OK, so the 1/10 scale has only 1HP, and weighs 6 pounds. Scaled up, that's like 750HP in your average car

Trust me that the 1/10 scales have a far greater average power/weight ratio than a full size.
Old 06-07-2004, 02:22 PM
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dgmorr29
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

Hmmm...that is true, power:weight.
What is the approx. weight of a cheap low end electric car? about 4lbs fully loaded?
Old 06-07-2004, 03:06 PM
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WhiskyVR-4
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

Its not quite that simple, you also have to factor things like weight distribution and, more important than hp, TORQUE. I can telly ou that the hp in my 240 may not be impressive, but the fact that its a 2.4 liter gives me enough "grunt" to drift with realtive ease. The simple fact is that 1/10 cars do not closely resemble 1:1 cars in many respects, so the comparisons don't quite work either.
Old 06-07-2004, 03:34 PM
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C_Watkins
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

I know... there are a lot of traits that don't translate up or down on a linear scale between 1/10:1 and 1:1.
It's still fun to make the comparisons and play "what if" sometimes.
Old 06-07-2004, 03:54 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

hm. i never knew that using pvc pipe as 'tires' was a common practice in drifting. that just took away a little of the cool factor there.
Old 06-09-2004, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

I think it adds to the cool factor because it looks more scale up until a certain point. (the recent vid with the green nitro car drifting around that maxx) Maybe it was just the body....
Old 06-10-2004, 01:41 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

it just makes it seem way too easy
Old 06-10-2004, 05:53 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

the main reason an rc car needs abs (plastic) tires to drift is weight. yes your nissan 240 drifts relativly easy because the tires need more grip to move all that weight around.an rc car requires much less grip to drive properly because they are so light. and your 240 isnt awd is it. it is much harder to drift an awd car than just rear wheel.
Old 06-11-2004, 09:15 PM
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mini_t boy
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

hey a good idea is to start manufactureing plastic tires for drifting if it hasnt already been done i dont know ....it dont seem that hard to make them...
Old 06-11-2004, 09:24 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

no its so cheap and easy it wouldnt be worth it for $8 and an old set of rims you can make like 56 sets
Old 06-21-2004, 02:34 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

gay
Old 06-22-2004, 01:41 AM
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Shadow102
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

its kinda like just asking the reverse...y don't full size nascars use foam tires instead of rubber it all comes down to how the chassis reacts to it and everything
Old 06-23-2004, 03:53 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

Just to clear up afew things, nascars don't use foam cos they wouldn't last 5 seconds. and r/c cars need plastic tyres because they can't put as much weight and power into making tyres slip as full size cars. You have missed one big factor although the power etc translates down o.k ish both rubbers have vaguely the same amount of grip and i have never seen an r/c car with 100's of horxepower to make rubber slip (though i'd like to!!!)
Old 06-25-2004, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

By the way.. we arent accounting for HALF the factors that come into play..

Aerodynamics.. A 1:1 car's side view mirror faces more aerodynamic resistance that our typical 1:10 CAR!!
LOTS of power is lost there. Then we have INERTIA to think about.

Drifting involves a LOT of "Feeling"..
You feel the weight transfer and you can apply various techniques to drift correctly. But when your having an out-of-car driving experience, you have to rely on visual clues a LOT.
And why is drifting a sport??? Why is BASKETBALL a sport? Isnt it stupid to dunk a ball in a basket over and over again? lol
Were humans.. I guess thats the only answer!


I dont agree with the statement:
Keep in mind that a 1/10 car travelling at 30mph is the same as a full scale (1/1) car travelling at approx 300mph.
Aerodynamics and energy are NOT linear!! So there is no way you can say that.
Lets say my 1:10 TC3 has 1HP (UNKNOWN TORQUE) and weighs 5 pounds.
My full sized weighs 3000lb and has 300HP.(~ WRX STi).
Lets make a few comparisons:

Power to weight ratio(HP/lb):
WRX: .1
TC3: .2
Its important to note that since the R/C car doesnt have a clutch.. power application is quite different when drifting..

Momentum@ 30Mph:
WRX: 90,000 lb*mi/hr
TC3: 150lb*m/hr
It weighs 600 times more!


Cornering ability:
WRX: ~.9x? (GUESS)
TC3: I dont know but I'm gonna guess this is WELL over 2Gs.

Erodynamic drag:

Standardized equation:

Drag = 1/391 x Cd x A x Vsquared
This equation shows that to calculate drag you need to know three things: Cd, the drag coefficient; A, the frontal area of whatever you’re driving through the air; and the speed of air past it. This equation shows an important point—aerodynamic forces are proportional to the square of the speed. That means you quadruple the drag or lift when you double the speed.

A typical sedan has a Cd of about .29.. but I'm not sure of the frontal Area (A).

But as you can see.. this area compounds the square of the speed along with the drag coefficient.
Lets take CD=.29 and A to be .3m^2.
A= 300cm^2
V= 45m/s (100Mph)
D= .29
Drag is: 450.5

A= 10cm^2
V= 45m/s (100Mph)
D= .08
Drag is: 4.1

This is a VERY crude example with some crazy units.. but the point is just that there is a HUGE difference in drag..

Well my little show is done..

Hope this makes sense to you guys!! If you think any of the above is wrong.. or if you have valid data.. please post!

ram
Old 06-30-2004, 07:24 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

Wouldn't the big thing be weight/momentum???
Old 07-01-2004, 02:24 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

hmm this is pointless.no ofence its like saying.......oh lets make a rc shuttle that could do that same whing as a real one come on now these are just rc cars you cant expect them to do the things like the real ones
Old 07-02-2004, 07:33 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

If I can just put my word in here regarding a comment above that makes a 5lb 1/10 translate to a 50lb 1:1;

1/10 scale refers really to the length scales. A 1/10 car is say about 40cm long. A full size car is 400cm long. However, when talking about the mass of the object, every dimension is increasing by a factor of 10. So, the actual weight from a 1:10 to a 1:1 is really more like a 1000 times. So a 5lb 1/10 would translate to a 5000lb 1:1. Think about it, the engine in a rc car in relation to the overall size of the car is rather large compared to a full size car, this would be where the scaled-up mass would appear from. Also, although the engine sizes still only seem to rise up to a 1000 times bigger (let's say 2.5cc for your average r/c car, goes to 2.5L in the 1:1 scale), we must remember that on 1:10 the engines are typically 2-strokes with massive air intakes and huge tuned exhausts. On a real car, they are 4 strokes and the exhausts are tiny by comparison. Also, our little 1 cylinder engines in 1:10 have been tuned sky-high - because it is cheap and easy to do with a small engine. Doing that to a 6 cylinder race engine that has to abide by noise and emission regulations and you cannot develop anywhere near the same power.
Sorry, that's my little babble about scale conversions.
Old 07-11-2004, 09:07 PM
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Default RE: Real (full size) drifters drift with rubber tires...why can't you?

dude, its simple...all it takes to drift on rubber tires is a properly built diff....you have to eak out every last bit of power from the motor...I have never had an electric or nitro car that wouldnt drift on rubber tires and the subtle drift charistics of rubber tires actualy make it much easier to drift...I use to race rc in the 80's and the cars that I ran in the stock class couldnt keep the tail glued to the road for nothing (tip if building a car purely for drifting use buggy type rear end and custom chassy, it allows for better torque and weight transfer and can still be just as fast as a standard road car.)

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