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Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

Old 09-24-2010, 06:17 AM
  #1  
howie63
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Default Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

Hello all,

I'm new to this forum. I've posted on the tank section of RCUniverse, but have recently become more interested in RC cars and trucks.

I have the HPI Crawler King, HPI E-Savage, and my most recent purchase is the HPI Savage Flux. Any tankers out there, I have a Panzer III and am building the Tamiya Leopard.

During the first real outside run of the Savage Flux, I was running it up and down my sidewalk, getting the feel of it. During a slow U-turn, the Savage lightly (really!) bumped a tree. It stopped running, and started smoking. I ran up (as fast as I can at age 63!), turned off the receiver, and unhooked and removed the batteries. I immediately found the bottom of each battery was burned. The batteries are 5000 mah, 7.2V NiMH, Duratrax. Before running, I did switch the Savage electronics from Lipo to NiMH, and ran through the setup routine. After digging into the Savage more, Ismelled a strong burnt smell from the ESC.

I contacted HPICustomer Service, and returned the ESC and receiver. HPI Customer Service did not answer my questions via email (Could the motor have been damaged? Is the receiver damaged?), so I sent both ESC and receiver for evaluation.

Now, I don't know what will happen on HPI's end, but I'm wondering if anyone else has had this problem? My first run with the Savage wasn't record breaking, so I'm wondering what happened. Obviously, too many AMPs went through the system. The system is supposed to handle 5000 mah batteries, so what gives?

Thanks guys and gals,

Howie



Old 09-24-2010, 08:24 AM
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MountainMotor
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

Are you running a Flux HP or 2350?
Old 09-24-2010, 09:31 AM
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mazdaprotege4
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

I am guessing that it was not too many amps, but too few amps. NiMh are not able to put out nearly as many AMPS as Lipos are, and seeeing that the Flux can handle 6S lipo, I don't see this as the problem.
Old 09-24-2010, 10:49 AM
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Freezetron
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

Yep, Nimh simply arn't capable of putting out enough reliable current to feed the MMM on the Flux. When the motor is demanding more current then the lipos can provide through the MMM, *poof* goes the MMM.


http://www.hpieurope.com/manuals/upd...ate_060309.pdf


This thread is good albeit long read

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...ighlight=zippy
Old 09-24-2010, 03:37 PM
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

^^ if that is true, why would hpi say you can use nimh batteries if it causes a problem? since nimhs obviously cause the esc to burn up according to you, they should put lipo only.

the link to the manual says damage to your batteries, not the esc.


and the link to rcm second post says Batteries do not kill speed controll's

Old 09-24-2010, 04:42 PM
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up


ORIGINAL: Freezetron

Yep, Nimh simply arn't capable of putting out enough reliable current to feed the MMM on the Flux. When the motor is demanding more current then the lipos can provide through the MMM, *poof* goes the MMM.


http://www.hpieurope.com/manuals/upd...ate_060309.pdf


This thread is good albeit long read

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...ighlight=zippy
The ESC would not be damaged by that. The batteries would be. Do I have to tell you this more than once?
Old 09-24-2010, 04:45 PM
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

apparently, it even said that in the links he posted
ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA


ORIGINAL: Freezetron

Yep, Nimh simply arn't capable of putting out enough reliable current to feed the MMM on the Flux. When the motor is demanding more current then the lipos can provide through the MMM, *poof* goes the MMM.


http://www.hpieurope.com/manuals/upd...ate_060309.pdf


This thread is good albeit long read

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...ighlight=zippy
The ESC would not be damaged by that. The batteries would be. Do I have to tell you this more than once?
Old 09-24-2010, 05:38 PM
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TheyDontWantMusic
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

undersized batteries shouldn't kill an esc, I don't know how this rumour was ever started.

the MMM esc is known to fail regularly, even when used within specs, and even in lighter weight vehicles.

its a feature.

Old 09-24-2010, 05:52 PM
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

ORIGINAL: TheyDontWantMusic

undersized batteries shouldn't kill an esc, I don't know how this rumour was ever started.

the MMM esc is known to fail regularly, even when used within specs, and even in lighter weight vehicles.

its a feature.

that they charge a premium for

Seriously their failure rate is the only reason I can figure out why they cost so much more than most.

Got a MM and honestly I'm all but impressed with it (thankfully it hasn't let out any magic smoke yet). On the other hand I do like the NEU motor that came with it. Honestly its frightening how many things you read about MM's going up in savages.
I had a 120A in my savage and it was getting damn warm (over 110F) Popped a 150A HW ESC (that cost a fair bit less than the CC) in and the new ESC doesn't even get over ambient temps while being pushed harder than the MM was.
Old 09-24-2010, 06:40 PM
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Freezetron
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA


ORIGINAL: Freezetron

Yep, Nimh simply arn't capable of putting out enough reliable current to feed the MMM on the Flux. When the motor is demanding more current then the lipos can provide through the MMM, *poof* goes the MMM.


http://www.hpieurope.com/manuals/upd...ate_060309.pdf


This thread is good albeit long read

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...ighlight=zippy
The ESC would not be damaged by that. The batteries would be. Do I have to tell you this more than once?

Then you explain Einstein why peoples hundreds of owners with MMM's have had them smoking and yet, the batteries are untouched. Why the hell hell do you think they put heatsinks on ESC in the first place? Thats right, because of the amount of current that flows through them as well as the resistance as the ESC controls the current to the motor creates heat as a byproduct. As you increase the voltage, you increase the amount of current and when more resistance is applied, more heat is generated, thus larger heatsinks and even fans are becoming normal on todays brushless systems.

By your acid inhaling damaged mind, ESC's should remain as cool as ambient temperatures, no matter what is connected to them. Well now, that ISN'T the case now is it Mr. Rocket scientist?
Old 09-24-2010, 06:44 PM
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Freezetron
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up


ORIGINAL: Krazy Chicken

^^ if that is true, why would hpi say you can use nimh batteries if it causes a problem? since nimhs obviously cause the esc to burn up according to you, they should put lipo only.

the link to the manual says damage to your batteries, not the esc.


and the link to rcm second post says Batteries do not kill speed controll's



Do you drive your Ford Focus at 100mph continuously? Just because you and the manufacturer think and say so, doesn't mean you should.
Old 09-24-2010, 06:48 PM
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Freezetron
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up


ORIGINAL: TheyDontWantMusic

undersized batteries shouldn't kill an esc, I don't know how this rumour was ever started.

the MMM esc is known to fail regularly, even when used within specs, and even in lighter weight vehicles.

its a feature.


Go away troll, your not helping
Old 09-24-2010, 06:52 PM
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Krazy Chicken
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

lol i wouldn't trust any ford to go that fast(my personal feeling). but again what you were trying to proove was wrong with the links you provided.
ORIGINAL: Freezetron


ORIGINAL: Krazy Chicken

^^ if that is true, why would hpi say you can use nimh batteries if it causes a problem? since nimhs obviously cause the esc to burn up according to you, they should put lipo only.

the link to the manual says damage to your batteries, not the esc.


and the link to rcm second post says Batteries do not kill speed controll's



Do you drive your Ford Focus at 100mph continuously? Just because you and the manufacturer think and say so, doesn't mean you should.
Old 09-24-2010, 07:05 PM
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Freezetron
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up


ORIGINAL: Krazy Chicken

but again what you were trying to proove was wrong with the links you provided.
No.... try again


http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24142
Old 09-24-2010, 07:16 PM
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TheyDontWantMusic
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up


ORIGINAL: Freezetron


Then you explain Einstein why peoples hundreds of owners with MMM's have had them smoking and yet, the batteries are untouched. Why the hell hell do you think they put heatsinks on ESC in the first place? Thats right, because of the amount of current that flows through them as well as the resistance as the ESC controls the current to the motor creates heat as a byproduct. As you increase the voltage, you increase the amount of current and when more resistance is applied, more heat is generated, thus larger heatsinks and even fans are becoming normal on todays brushless systems.

By your acid inhaling damaged mind, ESC's should remain as cool as ambient temperatures, no matter what is connected to them. Well now, that ISN'T the case now is it Mr. Rocket scientist?
it appears that you are an idiot

i have no idea what you're even trying to argue anymore... lol



Old 09-24-2010, 07:21 PM
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Krazy Chicken
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

lol there is the correct link
ORIGINAL: Freezetron


ORIGINAL: Krazy Chicken

but again what you were trying to proove was wrong with the links you provided.
No.... try again


http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24142
Old 09-24-2010, 07:50 PM
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up


ORIGINAL: Freezetron

ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA


ORIGINAL: Freezetron

Yep, Nimh simply arn't capable of putting out enough reliable current to feed the MMM on the Flux. When the motor is demanding more current then the lipos can provide through the MMM, *poof* goes the MMM.


http://www.hpieurope.com/manuals/upd...ate_060309.pdf


This thread is good albeit long read

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...ighlight=zippy
The ESC would not be damaged by that. The batteries would be. Do I have to tell you this more than once?

Then you explain Einstein why peoples hundreds of owners with MMM's have had them smoking and yet, the batteries are untouched. Why the hell hell do you think they put heatsinks on ESC in the first place? Thats right, because of the amount of current that flows through them as well as the resistance as the ESC controls the current to the motor creates heat as a byproduct. As you increase the voltage, you increase the amount of current and when more resistance is applied, more heat is generated, thus larger heatsinks and even fans are becoming normal on todays brushless systems.

By your acid inhaling damaged mind, ESC's should remain as cool as ambient temperatures, no matter what is connected to them. Well now, that ISN'T the case now is it Mr. Rocket scientist?
The only thing that's damaged my mind was reading this post. Why don't you go learn about electricity and how it works before arguing with people?
Old 09-24-2010, 08:15 PM
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

Don't know about anybody else in this thread, but unless ThunderbirdJunkie is running way overgeared his ESCs have, historically, never gone much more than 5 or 10 degrees above ambient temps.

Not even his Novak Cyclones or Tekin G12s that had no heat sinks to speak of.
Old 09-24-2010, 09:17 PM
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

ORIGINAL: HJJFFFAA


The only thing that's damaged my mind was reading this post. Why don't you go learn about electricity and how it works before arguing with people?

Fvck you azzhole
Old 09-24-2010, 10:01 PM
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

Freeze, perhaps you should take a good hard look at your behavior and your actual knowledge of electrical things before you tell people they're wrong, or even assuming you're right.

It's a known fact that the stock Flux has too big of a pinion on it from the factory. Guess what? The only reason for THAT is if it was geared PROPERLY it wouldn't hang with the Savage X 4.6 on 2S.
Old 09-25-2010, 12:13 AM
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

hang on, the popcorn isnt done popping yet
Old 09-25-2010, 02:07 AM
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

Freeze you just don't stop making retarded posts on too many forums do you? And making a thread on RCM saying you want it settled once and for all does you no good. Why don't you do some major research, learning, and reading about electricity and brushless systems and lithium battery technology and make a post with quality citations to prove that the source of your information is 100% reliable, and prove us all right or wrong. In the meantime, stop making retarded posts about "theories" and quit with your continuous bantering. It's getting rather old. Obviously, I don't have to read the topic, but when you seem to pop up on a bunch of different forums, it's difficult to avoid you.

Also, don't read me the riot act for this post, I'm not saying you are right, but I'm not saying are wrong either. Follow the above advice and maybe so many wouldn't hate you on a bunch of forums. Actually being intelligent gets you much more respect than acting like you think you are intelligent when you really aren't.
Old 09-25-2010, 06:15 AM
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howie63
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

Hello again,

I'm still wondering what went wrong, since I don't expect an answer from HPI. First off, what is "MMM?" I've been racking my brain, and can't come up with an answer. Second, what about the batteries? The Savage Flux HP manual says to use batteries with soldered connections. I couldn't find a 5000mah Nimh battery with soldered connections. The batteries I bought had welded connections. It seems to me that soldered connectors are more likely to melt and save other components, but again, the system should handle the amps. So, could the welded connectors have too much resistance? The first thing I noticed was that both batteries were burnt on the ends. Not the end with the connectors, but the flat end. It appeared that one battery almost burnt thru the bottom connector.

I don't think I'll try to use the burnt batteries again. I've since purchased 4600mah Nimh batteries with soldered connections and Deans plugs. If I get satisfaction from HPI, I'll use those batteries with the Savage Flux.

I am familiar with Ohm's Law, and have been thinking about this problem with Ohm's Law being the culprit. I'm not familiar with ESC's, but imagine that they slow the motor by dissipating heat.

Anyway, thanks for all the responses. Input like this is how we learn.

Howie


Old 09-25-2010, 10:56 AM
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up

MMM =  Mamba Monster Max = ESC (speed control) used in the Flux

I would be scared to use NIMH batteries in the Savage but a guy I know used NIMH's for the longest time in his and never had a problem. He has since gone to lipo's after seeing how fast ours was. The ESC on our Savage, on the other hand, went up in smoke after running a couple 3S lipo's for less then 15  min. HPI did warranty it, even got a phone call a few months later to ask if there was any issues with it. Good customer service.

We have now stuck to our 8000Mah 2S lipo's.
Old 09-25-2010, 11:10 AM
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Default RE: Savage Flux ESC Burned Up


ORIGINAL: howie63

Hello again,

Well, seems like I ignited a ''Firestorm!'' I just was trying to figure out what went wrong with my new $600 toy. I didn't mean to ignite all this nastiness. I don't see these kinds of responses on the tank side of things.

I'm still wondering what went wrong, since I don't expect an answer from HPI. First off, what is ''MMM?'' I've been racking my brain, and can't come up with an answer. Second, what about the batteries? The Savage Flux HP manual says to use batteries with soldered connections. I couldn't find a 5000mah Nimh battery with soldered connections. The batteries I bought had welded connections. It seems to me that soldered connectors are more likely to melt and save other components, but again, the system should handle the amps. So, could the welded connectors have too much resistance? The first thing I noticed was that both batteries were burnt on the ends. Not the end with the connectors, but the flat end. It appeared that one battery almost burnt thru the bottom connector.

I don't think I'll try to use the burnt batteries again. I've since purchased 4600mah Nimh batteries with soldered connections and Deans plugs. If I get satisfaction from HPI, I'll use those batteries with the Savage Flux.

I am familiar with Ohm's Law, and have been thinking about this problem with Ohm's Law being the culprit. I'm not familiar with ESC's, but imagine that they slow the motor by dissipating heat.

Anyway, thanks for all the responses. Input like this is how we learn.

Howie


MMM is Mamba Monster Max by Castle Creations, it is the ESC they slapped a new sticker on and slapped in the savage
You can easily find 5000+ NiMh, hell just ordered a 5300mah NiMh for my tank
(before people start saying use LiPo I planned to but the board is know to fail from 7.6V+ in the tank I got and no room for a lipo LVA)


And the tank forum can get like this, its just not as bad seeing there are only a handful of RC tank manufactures, whose tanks pretty much NEED the electronics from the manufacturer to move, vs the piles of different electronics, aftermarket parts, and vehicle manufacturers that parts are able to work together . Hell I asked about a $70 HL tank and I had ppl telling me how much better a $600 tamiya would be.


BTW I would recommend lipo for the savage flux. Turnigy 2S 5200mah 30C hard cases are $23 at hobbyking, I use them with my Savage I popped a 150A BL system in, and on truggy with a 120a MM BL ESC in it fine. In comparison a 5300mah NiMh costs $20 where I ordered it from...

In theory if what is stated is true from those links freeze posted a NiMh battery can cause the ESC to fail, but most of that sounds like theory craft from people without degrees in electronic engineering . If the ESC's use regenerative braking that is the NiMh might not be able to soak up the slight charge fast enough (but a simple diode and resistor in theory could have sank the power depending on design). The stuff about the FETS and caps leaking sounds more like CC being cheap and using under rated parts, or over rating their ESC's.

Now the post I saw about zippies being the issue IMO is BS to get out of repairs, the battery would go boom if that was the issue .

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