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Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

Old 12-25-2012, 08:38 AM
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Default Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

Currently I have a Revo racer that I haven't ran in over 3 years.. It's fast with the .18TZ O.S. bumpstart engine and my lightweight racing setup.. But I'm looking to go a step further in performance and I think a truggy is my next venture. After having a Savage Flux on 6S and the ease of brushless.. I want to go BL with this. I like how simple it is to get going and all the tuning options via computer.

I'm seeking your guys help because I have been MIA in this hobby for 3 years. I first started in 2003 before the savage was even out.. So I'm no rookie, just out of the loop with the latest and greatest stuff. I've been trying very hard to catch up on everything but I can't seem to find any solid BL Truggy info. I see HPI has one but its limited to 4S. I would like a system that could handle at least 5S. Can anyone point me in the right direction. I have the rest of the winter to sell my current stuff and switch to a BL Truggy set-up so I'm in no rush. I would like to have something I'm happy with

Merry Christmas
Old 12-25-2012, 09:00 AM
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HerrSavage
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

You want something to race with, or more just for fun? If the latter, then Thunder Tiger MT4 G3... Read up on them - great rep for toughness and value for money. I just got one after doing lots of research and thinking about it. Today was supposed to be the maiden outing, but it fxxxing rained.....

If you want to race you're gonna' need some pro kit(take your pick..), and to build it up, which will cost you MINIMUM double what the MT4 G3 costs, before batteries, etc.. AND it will be outdated in six months....
Old 12-26-2012, 08:34 AM
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

There are lots of very good truggy kits available but very few of them are brushless. But you can get conversion kits for themfor a brushless swap. This is probably the way to go for what you want. What is your price range? these thing can get pricey real quick especially if you are set on getting one brand new and building it your self. I have built 3 brushless truggies and a buggy using used kits and have been able to keep each of them right arounf $500 a peice. I built a Mugen MBX5T using a Tekin RX8 system and a Mugen MBX6T with a Castle system. I currently have a Losi 8ight-T 2.0 which I converted using Losi's conversion kit and a castle creations Mamba Monster system. Unfortunantly I can recomend Castle ESC's anymore. I have had to many of them fail prematurely. Castles customer service is very good but the best customer service is the one you don't have to use. Castle Motors are the best I have used but the ESC's IMO are unreliable. I have just sold aff the last of my Castle ESC's and bought a couple HobbyWing XERUN esc's and they seem to be very good so far. Tekin is also a very good system with alot of tuning option via the Hotwire setup that plugs into laptop.

some model to look at:
Mugen
Losi
Kyosho
Associated
Xray

These are all quality kits that will perform very well but I think all of tem need a conversion kit (accept for maybe associated I think they have a brushless ready kit)
Old 12-26-2012, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

Buying new will put you over $800 easily.. Kit, converstion kit, motor/ESC, receiver at least - if not also a radio, steering servo, tires (most kits have no tires), etc.. Before batteries and charger. Add $300 for that.

If you want a race truggy you have to be prepared to spend big. Period.. To be in the mix for serious organized racing, if buying new you'll need $1500 all up, pretty easily..

Mugen kit, for ex.. (Hell, take a HB D8T, won't make much difference in the big picture...)
Hobbico CS-170 servo, for ex..
Hobbywing Motor/ESC
Two sets of rims/tires
conversion kit
receiver and/or radio with "
2-3 sets of batteries
charger
misc. little stuff for the car
misc. little stuff for the electronics

Yes you can do it cheap with a used kit etc.., but you have to know what you're doing. Buying used is a crapshoot even if you do know what you're doing.

Just ran my first ever lipo pack through my MT4 G3 today. Awesome RC.. Will never be the best racer, but yeah...., screw racing... And even when I do want to run on a track, truggy tires on, and there you go - it is a truggy after all...

Whatever the case, don't kid yourself for one second: whether nitro or electric, organized 8th scale racing is MASSIVELY expensive. Especially truggy, given tire prices..., to name just one thing...
Old 12-26-2012, 03:07 PM
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.


ORIGINAL: HerrSavage

Buying new will put you over $800 easily.. Kit, converstion kit, motor/ESC, receiver at least - if not also a radio, steering servo, tires (most kits have no tires), etc.. Before batteries and charger. Add $300 for that.

If you want a race truggy you have to be prepared to spend big. Period.. To be in the mix for serious organized racing, if buying new you'll need $1500 all up, pretty easily..

Mugen kit, for ex.. (Hell, take a HB D8T, won't make much difference in the big picture...)
Hobbico CS-170 servo, for ex..
Hobbywing Motor/ESC
Two sets of rims/tires
conversion kit
receiver and/or radio with ''
2-3 sets of batteries
charger
misc. little stuff for the car
misc. little stuff for the electronics

Yes you can do it cheap with a used kit etc.., but you have to know what you're doing. Buying used is a crapshoot even if you do know what you're doing.

Just ran my first ever lipo pack through my MT4 G3 today. Awesome RC.. Will never be the best racer, but yeah...., screw racing... And even when I do want to run on a track, truggy tires on, and there you go - it is a truggy after all...

Whatever the case, don't kid yourself for one second: whether nitro or electric, organized 8th scale racing is MASSIVELY expensive. Especially truggy, given tire prices..., to name just one thing...
I think this guy would preffer you to get into a cheaper hobby because you can't afford this one



Of course its going to be expensive. thats why I asked what the OP's price range was. Buying new is prefferable but buying used is a very viable option that can save you alot of money if that is nessassary.
Old 12-26-2012, 11:14 PM
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robg68
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

The mugen mbx6t, serpent 811-t, team durango dnx408t, losi 8ight t, ssociated rc8t 2.0, hardbodies d8t are what you want to look at. Non of there come electric (except for the losi for a short time) so you will have to convert the one you get. The thunder tiger is the only current rtr BL truggy worth anything on the market but it is more marketed towards bashers.

Personally I think the mbx6t is the way to go with the factory conversion kit. I'm in the middle of building one as we speak. Find one used since you are basically going to throw away (or sell) the chassis, tank, radiobox, motor mounts, servo holder and esc holder if you use the factory or tekno kit.

For esc look at hobbywing 150a or the Tekin rx8, for motors of you want to look at the cc 2200 1515 if you just want crazy 6s power but I am experimenting with one on my mugen buggy and it really is a little unrefined. By this I mean that if I want to go slow, it goes slow for a second and then goes to like 1/8th throttle no matter how little I press the trigger compared to my sensored tekin t8 1900kv that is buttery smooth from start to finish.

If you want to go the sensored route look at the tekin t8 4038 motors, I think the 1700kv is perfect for truggies and lets you run 6s.
Old 12-27-2012, 05:58 AM
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

Thanks for all the fast and helpful replys!! I knew I came to the right place.

I've looked into some of the options you guys listed for me and to be honest I'm leaning towards the ST4 G3. I don't really have a budget but I'm also not a pro racer. I have a Hobby town USA and a few nice local tracks to play around on. I don't really like the idea of converting..I see how it's probably by far the best performance with the best aftermarket to convert..but I don't want to go through the hassle of selling all the old nitro stuff I won't need on the kits..at least not just yet. I've done some research on the ST4 and it seems like a pretty good deal for the price. It has a low CG and looks to be laid out well. It's different thats for sure..I really dont like the body either. Knowing it comes with a 80A ESC it will only take 4S which is not what I originally wanted..but thinking back on my Savage Flux 4S, that was really fast still on 4S (much more manageable than 6S) and that was a 13+lb truck with the CG of a skyscraper compared to the ST4.. Since I have to re-buy a lipo charger + the lipos, I like the price tag too. Buying used isn't a route I'd like to take. I've done that before and it was hit or miss. I'm very meticulous with these things and getting a R/C with things like stripped screws was frustrating. Buying used was also a hit or miss unless it was a reputable member I talked with from time to time.

I've never Delt with Thunder Tiger before but I did once own the original Associated MGT with the flag body. I did like the truck after a few minor upgrades..If I remember right, Thunder Tiger was a lower quality branch of Associated? The ST4 seems to have most of the adjustments to get it going around a track well stock. Aftermarket wise, I'm not big into changing things unless its a night and day difference. I could see future upgrades (regardless of the kit) being things like: wheels/tires, shocks, gearing, diff/shock fluids, st servo, body, and maybe a few other very minor things. A pro kit is not something I really want and it seems my only options are to convert something high end and expensive or get the ST4.

More on the ST4 since its what I've done the most research on. I watched countless review videos and a few running videos. Do any of you guys own one of these or know anyone that has. I'm having a hard time finding anything really bad about it other than the typical 'you pay for what you get' Which I totally understand, TT is not a high end company from what I remember. Keep the info flowing! Oh and thanks again! I'm really excited to get back in the hobby!
Old 12-27-2012, 07:45 AM
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

TT is not "a lower quality branch of Associated", but rather the OWNER of Associated.. TT is a huge and old company with a long tradition. The MGT has always been sold outside the US under the TT name (MTA4).., not Associated. Associated is more the racing arm of TT, I guess you could say..(except for the MGT, which actually is really a rebadged MTA4 if anything..., for the US market, for whatever reason..) TT makes planes, boats, and here anyway is famous for helicoptors..(big ones..)


I also considered the ST4, but went for the MT4 because it just seemed more proven, takes 6s, etc.. Like I said, depends what you want to do, but the ST-4 is surely a good truck too. TT makes good solid RC's. It's not a Mugen or Serpent or Durango - but it's a third of the price.
Old 12-27-2012, 09:37 AM
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

I think The ST4 is a great option. Its not low end quality either. I really haven't heard anything neative about anything Thunder Tiger makes/sells. I had a ST1 which is the their nitro truggy and that thing was a tank I have not run the ST4 but I have no reason to believe it is an inferior rig. As far as only being able to handle 4s... upgrading electronics is easy to do. since the motor is a 2000kv it should have no trouble handling 6s the ESC is what you would need to upgrade. I would pull out the stock ESC before even running it and sell it as brand new and drop in one of these. http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e-ezrun-150a-pro-esc.html
Old 12-27-2012, 11:44 AM
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

Thanks for clearing up the information on TT and Associated! I knew they were related somehow, its just been awhile. Forgive me!

I've decided to go with the ST4!! Tower hobbies had some really good coupon codes that ended 12/31 plus free shipping.. After it was all said and done I got the trug for $400 even shipped to my door! woooOOoo

I was looking into the ESC that the MT4 came with thinking of doing exactly what you said.. Is that the same one in the link you posted? I'm actually tossing the idea around of doing that, but the more and more I think of it..I'm not sure I want more than 4S anyway. 6S was just insane in my Savage Flux even with the castle creations tuning link.. I turned everything down as much as I could and made a nice curved throttle curve. It shredded the 13lb. truck and destroyed bodies like no other.. It was fun for sure but more work than anything keeping control of it. I couldn't even begun to think what 6S would be like in a 8.5lb truck. Crazy.

The videos I've seen of the ST4 stock on 4S seem fast enough for me. I also ordered some new lipos that are supposed to pack something like 15% more punch and last twice as long as the standard lipo technology. No idea how true this is but the reviews were all positive and people said it was a noticeable difference. Below I'll post the specs. Now I need to try and dig up old threads on the truck so I can figure out what the stock diff fluid weights (mostly interested in center weight) and the shock weight oil. I've seen the videos and it seems stock the center diff could use a little thinker fluid as well as the shocks. Any input on your thoughts with this would be helpful too. Also the pinion size, I'm reading stock is 13T? I may gear up to a 15T since on the MT4 is uses the same gearing setup but taller tires. Putting on a 15T from my research should make it about the same gearing as the MT4 and temps should stay cool enough. The only major difference being the ESC. I'm assuming that having the 150A ESC wouldn't make the motor run cooler giving all the same condition on both trucks though. Thats just a guess since I'm still learning. I'm thinking it may even run cooler than the MT4 if I can get the gearing spot on the same since the ST4 is lighter and the motor/ESC would actually be doing less work to push it.

***
Spec.
Capacity: 5000mAh
Voltage: 2S1P / 2 Cell / 7.4V
Discharge: 25C Constant / 50C Burst
Weight: 279g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 173x49x16mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Max Charge Rate (C) 5

-Nano-tech lithium polymer batteries are built with an LiCo nano-technology substrate complex greatly improving power transfer making the oxidation/reduction reaction more efficient, this helps electrons pass more freely from anode to cathode with less internal impedance.
In short; less voltage sag and a higher discharge rate than a similar density lithium polymer (non nano-tech) battery.
For those that love graphs, it means a straighter, longer curve.

The nano-core technology in lithium ion batteries is the application of nanometer conductive additives.
1) The nanometer conductive additives form ultra strong electron-conducting networks in the electrodes which can increase electronic conductivity.
2) These additives create a super strong ability for imbibition in the carrier liquid to supply more ion channels. This improves the ability of ion transmission and ion diffusion.
Through improving electronic conductivity and ion transmission, the impedance is reduced and the polarization of high rate discharge decreases greatly.

Advantages over traditional Lipo batteries:
-Power density reaches 7.5 kw/kg.
-Less Voltage sag during high rate discharge, giving more power under load.
-Internal impedance can reach as low as 1.2mΩ compared to that of 3mΩ of a standard Lipoly.
-Greater thermal control, pack usually doesn't exceed 60degC
-Thickness swelling during heavy load doesn't exceed 5%, compared to 15% of a normal Lipoly during heavy load.
-Higher capacity during heavy discharge. More than 90% at 100% C rate.
-Fast charge capable, up to 15C on some batteries. These are 5C.
-Longer Cycle Life, almost double that of standard lipoly technology.

^Thoughts on these lipos? The reviews are all fantastic, sounds good to me.
Old 12-27-2012, 01:07 PM
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

Stock pinion on the MT4 is a 12..
Old 12-27-2012, 02:22 PM
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

That's a great deal for that truggy! Even if you deicide to only run 4s I would still recommend upgrading to a 150 amp ESC or 120 amp at a minimum. I believe you will be pressing your luck with that 80 amp stock unit. It will.burn up much easier in a heavy truggy.


as far as the Nano-Tech batteries go, I'm not sure if I would believe all the marketing hype regarding lasting twice as long as other Lipos. having said that, they are good batteries I have a couple of them myself and they do a great job for the price.
Old 12-27-2012, 02:41 PM
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.


ORIGINAL: yakfish

That's a great deal for that truggy! Even if you deicide to only run 4s I would still recommend upgrading to a 150 amp ESC or 120 amp at a minimum. I believe you will be pressing your luck with that 80 amp stock unit. It will.burn up much easier in a heavy truggy.


as far as the Nano-Tech batteries go, I'm not sure if I would believe all the marketing hype regarding lasting twice as long as other Lipos. having said that, they are good batteries I have a couple of them myself and they do a great job for the price.
The 80A ESC should be fine if you don't gear up

You have yourself a solid choice with the st4, tells us how it runs when you get it.

One more thing, locktite all the screw to metal stuff, wheel nuts, wheel pins and check the gear mesh, thunder tiger don't know to assemble for crap. Also make sure your front and rear cvd are not mixed up and your camber settings are good.
Old 12-27-2012, 03:19 PM
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

Ahh ok that makes sense! I wonder if the st4 has a 13t pinion then. Herrsavage how is the 50,000 wt in the center diff doing? Do your front tires balloon like crazy or is it more balanced?

I'll sleep on the esc swap and continue to research on it and the trug. I thought the lipo technology might of been hype but they weren't to much more money, jut a few bucks per pack. How much runtime will 5000mAh give me in a stock st4? That's marketing for ya. Lol.

I'll have some time to go through a few things and lock tight some of the screws you mentioned.

I think we're getting some snow this week and I'm not risking getting it wet. In the meantime today I started to tear into my Revo topping off fluids and completely tore apart the engine. It was pretty gummed up from sitting, but still nice and shiny inside (only has a 1/2 gallon through it after break in so it's like new). Since I sold my Digital radio I don't have a receiver in the Revo anymore. I was thinking of getting another receiver that the st4 comes with if I can sync it to the radio. I would like to hold off until summer to drop the money on something like a radio.

You guys have been helpful, I'll be sure to post vids and pictures as time progresses.
Old 12-29-2012, 11:27 AM
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Default RE: Back in the hobby. I want a good BL Truggy.

I'm still thinking about that esc you posted. The truggy won't get here until mid next week and I won't be ready to run for about another week or so..so I still have plenty of time. What's the problem with the 80A on 4s? I've only seen about 2 reports of the stock stuff failing and that was after 70 packs. O_o

I'm taking all the advice I've been given into hard concideration. [8D]

I've already ordered an advanced hobbywing esc programmer so I can set my lipo cut offs higher and other little adjustments I was picky about on my savage flux. I need to get another receiver that I can bind to this radio so I can get my Revo back up and running too.

The amount of research I've done in the past few days makes me dizzy haha I have some pretty cool ideas to address some of the issues people mention about this kit but in my own 'race' minded way. I can't wait to start contributing to the information flow

Cheers

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