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Huge Debate on MM

Old 01-20-2008, 12:53 PM
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Takedown
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Default Huge Debate on MM

Well I figured out that the guys at my LHS might be banning the use of MM ESC's in races because it is an unfair advantage. They are complaining that since the MM is PC programmable that you can set throttle curves and brakes curves and a bunch of other setting's so that you will race a little better. I dont blame the guys, if they want a fair race then the MM has to be banned. What do yuo guys think of this?
Old 01-20-2008, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM

They don't have to get rid of the MM in their races altogether. They should have some sort of on-the-side MM only races. Then it would just be MM vs MM, may the best programmer win! [8D]
Old 01-20-2008, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: J-Cube

They don't have to get rid of the MM in their races altogether. They should have some sort of on-the-side MM only races. Then it would just be MM vs MM, may the best programmer win! [8D]
Ha! Thats not a bad idea. Ill talk to the guys about that.[&:]
Old 01-20-2008, 01:01 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM

they shouldnt have to ban them... i means its part of tuning the car. just like adjusting the camber and all that other stuff so your car can handle better. modifying the throttle curve and brake curve with the MM wont make your car anyfaster, its not like it supplies the motor with more voltage and cranks up your RPM... its just another thing to tune. I dont know. just my two cents. Its all part of racing, its all about who can drive the best and who has the better setup
Old 01-20-2008, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM

One popular opinion around here and other boards, is that the MM sucks because it cogs, and it does not have that censored control.
So common sense would tell you, that they would let the MM guys race, as it is not as good as censored anyway. It still has me confused.
The technology is not that far off, the other guys could offer the same features, but they don't. Eventually an end user will find a way to reprogram one of the other brands, by hooking it up to their computer. The end user being able to reprogram their ESC's is coming, it just may take a few years, or whenever 'the other brands' decide it is OK for ROAR to allow it.
Old 01-20-2008, 01:07 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: Takedown

Well I figured out that the guys at my LHS might be banning the use of MM ESC's in races because it is an unfair advantage. They are complaining that since the MM is PC programmable that you can set throttle curves and brakes curves and a bunch of other setting's so that you will race a little better. I dont blame the guys, if they want a fair race then the MM has to be banned. What do yuo guys think of this?
I think they a bunch of freakin' whinning babies that can't stand to lose.....................
Old 01-20-2008, 01:09 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: MT

One popular opinion around here and other boards, is that the MM sucks because it cogs, and it does not have that censored control.
So common sense would tell you, that they would let the MM guys race, as it is not as good as censored anyway. It still has me confused.
The technology is not that far off, the other guys could offer the same features, but they don't. Eventually an end user will find a way to reprogram one of the other brands, by hooking it up to their computer. The end user being able to reprogram their ESC's is coming, it just may take a few years, or whenever 'the other brands' decide it is OK for ROAR to allow it.
I haven't heard of any issues with the MM cogging. Maybe the problem is the gearing or they are trying to make it due something it can't.
Old 01-20-2008, 01:09 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: t9dragon


ORIGINAL: Takedown

Well I figured out that the guys at my LHS might be banning the use of MM ESC's in races because it is an unfair advantage. They are complaining that since the MM is PC programmable that you can set throttle curves and brakes curves and a bunch of other setting's so that you will race a little better. I dont blame the guys, if they want a fair race then the MM has to be banned. What do yuo guys think of this?
I think they a bunch of freakin' whinning babies that can't stand to lose.....................
Well it is sort of an unfair advantage. Its gotta be fair to all of them...[sm=tired.gif]
Old 01-20-2008, 01:13 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: Takedown


ORIGINAL: t9dragon


ORIGINAL: Takedown

Well I figured out that the guys at my LHS might be banning the use of MM ESC's in races because it is an unfair advantage. They are complaining that since the MM is PC programmable that you can set throttle curves and brakes curves and a bunch of other setting's so that you will race a little better. I dont blame the guys, if they want a fair race then the MM has to be banned. What do yuo guys think of this?
I think they a bunch of freakin' whinning babies that can't stand to lose.....................
Well it is sort of an unfair advantage. Its gotta be fair to all of them...[sm=tired.gif]
How can that be an unfair advantage. I guess they should ban the tunning of the car all together then it will be fair for the newbie and give them a chance to win the A-main race...................... Just because someone can fine tune the MM doesn't mean it gives them any type of advantage. They still need to be able to drive.
Old 01-20-2008, 01:15 PM
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Takedown
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: t9dragon


ORIGINAL: Takedown


ORIGINAL: t9dragon


ORIGINAL: Takedown

Well I figured out that the guys at my LHS might be banning the use of MM ESC's in races because it is an unfair advantage. They are complaining that since the MM is PC programmable that you can set throttle curves and brakes curves and a bunch of other setting's so that you will race a little better. I dont blame the guys, if they want a fair race then the MM has to be banned. What do yuo guys think of this?
I think they a bunch of freakin' whinning babies that can't stand to lose.....................
Well it is sort of an unfair advantage. Its gotta be fair to all of them...[sm=tired.gif]
How can that be an unfair advantage. I guess they should ban the tunning of the car all together then it will be fair for the newbie and give them a chance to win the A-main race...................... Just because someone can fine tune the MM doesn't mean it gives them any type of advantage. They still need to be able to drive.
All their basically trying to get across is that its an unfair advantage to the racers who dont have PC programmable ESC's.
Old 01-20-2008, 01:19 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: t9dragon


ORIGINAL: MT

One popular opinion around here and other boards, is that the MM sucks because it cogs, and it does not have that censored control.
So common sense would tell you, that they would let the MM guys race, as it is not as good as censored anyway. It still has me confused.
The technology is not that far off, the other guys could offer the same features, but they don't. Eventually an end user will find a way to reprogram one of the other brands, by hooking it up to their computer. The end user being able to reprogram their ESC's is coming, it just may take a few years, or whenever 'the other brands' decide it is OK for ROAR to allow it.
I haven't heard of any issues with the MM cogging. Maybe the problem is the gearing or they are trying to make it due something it can't.
I don't have that problem either.
It just seems to be rumored by the guys that don't really use them, the same ones that don't want to see them on the tracks. The racing crowd has another brand, and they stick together tigheter than a ducks ass in 33 degree water on this subject.
There was another thread on this debate, and it seems that Castle will not cater or talk to the ROAR people, therefor their MM does not get approved. I can hear the argument of not wanting people to have to spend money on laptops, but you and I both know the thousands of dollars of equipment people bring to the tracks.
We see how people copy video games, and modifiy their game systems by soldering in chips to fool the system to play hacked games. This stuff is real and is done hourley.
Again, it is only a matter of time before some nerd hacks in to another one of the ESC's and reprograms it.
Then what are they going to say? Who has the unfair advantage if this happens?
Old 01-20-2008, 01:21 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM

if its such an unfair advantage then why dont they use the MM. its kind of like my situation. I personally cant afford new bowties every race like some of the serious guys can. Should they ban getting new tires every race? No, its just one of those things. racing is 50% budget and 50% driver. thats racing and theres no way to change it. I mean even in the stock class(meant to be affordable) there are guys running high dollar 27t motors.
Old 01-20-2008, 01:23 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: MT


ORIGINAL: t9dragon


ORIGINAL: MT

One popular opinion around here and other boards, is that the MM sucks because it cogs, and it does not have that censored control.
So common sense would tell you, that they would let the MM guys race, as it is not as good as censored anyway. It still has me confused.
The technology is not that far off, the other guys could offer the same features, but they don't. Eventually an end user will find a way to reprogram one of the other brands, by hooking it up to their computer. The end user being able to reprogram their ESC's is coming, it just may take a few years, or whenever 'the other brands' decide it is OK for ROAR to allow it.
I haven't heard of any issues with the MM cogging. Maybe the problem is the gearing or they are trying to make it due something it can't.
I don't have that problem either.
It just seems to be rumored by the guys that don't really use them, the same ones that don't want to see them on the tracks. The racing crowd has another brand, and they stick together tigheter than a ducks ass in 33 degree water on this subject.
There was another thread on this debate, and it seems that Castle will not cater or talk to the ROAR people, therefor their MM does not get approved. I can hear the argument of not wanting people to have to spend money on laptops, but you and I both know the thousands of dollars of equipment people bring to the tracks.
We see how people copy video games, and modifiy their game systems by soldering in chips to fool the system to play hacked games. This stuff is real and is done hourley.
Again, it is only a matter of time before some nerd hacks in to another one of the ESC's and reprograms it.
Then what are they going to say? Who has the unfair advantage if this happens?
Never really thought of it that way MT.
Old 01-20-2008, 01:26 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM

in modified classes, the rules should be simple, as far as power systems are concerned. the guy who turns the most laps fastest, wins.

i can tune my mm till the cows come home, but still, if your going to be fast enough to win in mod racing, you have to control wheelspin with your left index finger, and have the instant power on tap to make time in a pinch.

sometimes , more often than not in my case, my corner speed , and approach to certain jumps is never the same. i might have a good enough run at a given obstacle to practically coast over it. other times not. sometimes i need the extra traction provided by the suspension preloading on the jump face, and a fist full of throttle to clear a section.

i say let them run in mod class. if i couldnt compete, i would move down to stock, or beginner class or something.


ps, i have mm systems and gtb systems, and i race with my novaks, because im better with the throttle with them.
Old 01-20-2008, 01:26 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM

I don't get it? By saying that the MM has an unfair advantage aren't they saying that the MM is so much better than anything else that they should be in a class of they're own?
Old 01-20-2008, 01:27 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: MT

I don't have that problem either.
It just seems to be rumored by the guys that don't really use them, the same ones that don't want to see them on the tracks. The racing crowd has another brand, and they stick together tigheter than a ducks ass in 33 degree water on this subject.
There was another thread on this debate, and it seems that Castle will not cater or talk to the ROAR people, therefor their MM does not get approved. I can hear the argument of not wanting people to have to spend money on laptops, but you and I both know the thousands of dollars of equipment people bring to the tracks.
We see how people copy video games, and modifiy their game systems by soldering in chips to fool the system to play hacked games. This stuff is real and is done hourley.
Again, it is only a matter of time before some nerd hacks in to another one of the ESC's and reprograms it.
Then what are they going to say? Who has the unfair advantage if this happens?
I do take my laptop to the track with me to fine tune my ESC. The main reason I went with the MM was it because it was cheaper then the others and I don't have the extra cash for motor lathes and all the other stuff that goes with using the brushed motors.
Old 01-20-2008, 01:29 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: t9dragon


ORIGINAL: MT

I don't have that problem either.
It just seems to be rumored by the guys that don't really use them, the same ones that don't want to see them on the tracks. The racing crowd has another brand, and they stick together tigheter than a ducks ass in 33 degree water on this subject.
There was another thread on this debate, and it seems that Castle will not cater or talk to the ROAR people, therefor their MM does not get approved. I can hear the argument of not wanting people to have to spend money on laptops, but you and I both know the thousands of dollars of equipment people bring to the tracks.
We see how people copy video games, and modifiy their game systems by soldering in chips to fool the system to play hacked games. This stuff is real and is done hourley.
Again, it is only a matter of time before some nerd hacks in to another one of the ESC's and reprograms it.
Then what are they going to say? Who has the unfair advantage if this happens?
I do take my laptop to the track with me to fine tune my ESC. The main reason I went with the MM was it because it was cheaper then the others and I don't have the extra cash for motor lathes and all the other stuff that goes with using the brushed motors.
Ya theirs really no sence in using a brushed motor when brushless is better in everyway shape and form.
Old 01-20-2008, 01:30 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: Phelansa

I don't get it? By saying that the MM has an unfair advantage aren't they saying that the MM is so much better than anything else that they should be in a class of they're own?
Yep, everyone else is just afraid to admit that Castle Creations got it right with the MM. If it is so unfair that people can fine tune the MM then why doesn't Novak make theirs programmable. Since Novak has been around longer you think they would have already had that feature on their ESC's.
Old 01-20-2008, 01:32 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: t9dragon


ORIGINAL: Phelansa

I don't get it? By saying that the MM has an unfair advantage aren't they saying that the MM is so much better than anything else that they should be in a class of they're own?
Yep, everyone else is just afraid to admit that Castle Creations got it right with the MM. If it is so unfair that people can fine tune the MM then why doesn't Novak make theirs programmable. Since Novak has been around longer you think they would have already had that feature on their ESC's.
Its all about $$$$. If novak threw that feature into their ESC's then they think that they'd be throwing away money.
Old 01-20-2008, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM

My opinion, it's silly to ban the MM esc for racing. Racers don't win because they are better speed control programmers---they win because they are better drivers. I know of factory drivers who have never learned to reprogram their GTBs. They adjust their driving style, not the electronics.

Modified should be opened up to all electronics---let the better product win. Opening up mod racing would have another significant benefit: we wouldn't have to hear racers whine about how the big, bad, sensored manufacturers banned poor little CC and other SL companies.

If the SL products are so superior, let them prove it on the track.
Old 01-20-2008, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM

ORIGINAL: Takedown


ORIGINAL: t9dragon


ORIGINAL: Phelansa

I don't get it? By saying that the MM has an unfair advantage aren't they saying that the MM is so much better than anything else that they should be in a class of they're own?
Yep, everyone else is just afraid to admit that Castle Creations got it right with the MM. If it is so unfair that people can fine tune the MM then why doesn't Novak make theirs programmable. Since Novak has been around longer you think they would have already had that feature on their ESC's.
Its all about $$$$. If novak threw that feature into their ESC's then they think that they'd be throwing away money.
Lol, I was being facetious. My statement was made purely tongue in cheek. As a dig at everybody who gets so serious about what system is best. I have seen people just about get into fist fights about whose BL/radio/car/tyres are best. I personally think the whole situation quite laughable.

Edit: Look at Novak2's post as the perfect example of what I am talking about? I agree with everything he says about opening up the "Open Class" BUT MOST DEFENATLY NOT the last part of his post.
Old 01-20-2008, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM


ORIGINAL: Novak2

My opinion, it's silly to ban the MM esc for racing. Racers don't win because they are better speed control programmers---they win because they are better drivers. I know of factory drivers who have never learned to reprogram their GTBs. They adjust their driving style, not the electronics.

Modified should be opened up to all electronics---let the better product win. Opening up mod racing would have another significant benefit: we wouldn't have to hear racers whine about how the big, bad, sensored manufacturers banned poor little CC and other SL companies.

If the SL products are so superior, let them prove it on the track.
I also agree 100%
Spoken like a true competitor! I would also add, "let the better racer win" as said above equipment is only half the race.
Thanks Novak2
And in the end, with the companies competing, it is the regular end users like you and I, that also benifit in lower prices and better products.

I don't want to hold hands, but can we all sign cumbaya
Cabin fever is really getting to me with this cold weather [X(]
Old 01-20-2008, 02:16 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM

I just picked up a sphere TC esc, and while not being "computer" tuneable, it does have 8 different throttle curves you can select which I would bet one of which would closely approximate the ideal throttle curve if you spent hours with a MM and laptop test/tuning

you can also adjust the drag brake, initial brake strength and something else that I can't remember right now

in addition to being smoother than the MM due to being sensored, I'm not sure where mamba would still have the advantage


unless the track's getting full of people running 3s or other high voltage that the high end esc's can't handle
Old 01-20-2008, 03:06 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM

what a load of bollocks!

even if you just set your mamba to have a linear (straight line) throttle response you could still put a modifiable curve on it in your handset

what are they gonna do? ban computer handsets too [:'(]


i ran with my MM today & i was the fastest car at the whole meeting! nobody complained though as i drove like an ass & broke my car anyway LOL
Old 01-20-2008, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: Huge Debate on MM

Very good point!

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