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1/8 Xcelorin vs Mamba Monster

Old 03-02-2009, 04:18 PM
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y7deluxe
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Default 1/8 Xcelorin vs Mamba Monster

I currently own the 1/8 Xcelorin system with the 2100kv motor. My ESC's brakes were not working, so I sent it back to HH for replacement. The ESC is on back order.

In the mean time, I've been looking at the Mamba Monster 2200kv motor/ESC. It'll cost me $270 to get this item. If I ever get my Xcelorin ESC back, it'll be a brand new one, so I could sell the thing for $190. Then I'd imagine I could sell my used 2100kv motor for $80 or more.

Assuming they both cost the same... which is better to own?
The MM system allows up to 6cell battery packs. The Xcelorin only goes up to 5cell battery packs. I'd imagine this would be a huge difference, but I'm curious about the AMP rating on the ESC's. The MM system has an AMP rating of 120 and the Xcelorin has a rating of 160. I'm not completely sure what those numbers mean as far as maximum input from the battery or maximum output to the motor. I was hoping somebody on here could tell me or point me to another thread that already has this information available(I searched on here and on google, I couldn't find anything).

Thanks in advance for all replies!

EDIT: Also, any additional input on which of these sy stems is better and why it's better would be very helpful. Thanks.
Old 03-02-2009, 05:02 PM
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Lilredmachine
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Default RE: 1/8 Xcelorin vs Mamba Monster

The Excelorin is overrated.

Escs have fets in, they are what handle the power. Some manufacturers take the direct amp ratings of the fets and use them as a continuous current rating. The fet rating is often taken at a low temperature, say 25 degrees c, which no system runs at no matter how cool running it is. When fets heat up they lose a dramatic amount of their amp handling capability, say 35%. This means you get an unrealistically rated esc that may be able to theoretically take 150 amps, but in the real world will struggle with anything over 100 amps when at normal operating temperature. The MMM on the other hand, is only rated to 120 amps, but that is not only realistic, but conservative. The MMM has taken huge motors, even seen a Neu 1527 run on one without problems. All the issues with the various versions of the MMM have come from trying to make it too small, components too close to each other, the switching BEC, pressure on the wrong parts of the PCB, heatsinks touching motor/battery outputs/inputs and now those are all fixed in the V3. The MMMs amp handling capability has never been in doubt.

The other point is voltage, as you mentioned the Excelorin can take 5s and the MMM can stomach 6s. This means that the MMM, when compared to the Excelorin, has to deal with less amp spikes at it's maximum voltage. To give you an example, a 6s controller in a 1/8th application really needs to be able to handle 150 amps comfortably to give head room, a 10s controller may only need to handle 110 amps due to the efficiency of the system being higher.

As for maximum input from the battery and maximum output to the motor, the ESC these days tends to be the bottle neck. Good lipos are capable of supplying 200a continuous and high end motors are capable of pulling that out of the packs during heavy use, not to mention the stress that braking all that puts back through the ESC. Don't worry about the MMM not having the guts to give the motor what it needs, it will.
Old 03-02-2009, 05:11 PM
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FoamyVictim
 
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Default RE: 1/8 Xcelorin vs Mamba Monster

Better is pretty much personal preference. I have both systems, and they're pretty much the same. I like the fan on the Mamba better, because it's very well protected and thermostatic(only comes on when it's hot). I would suggest you wait until the Xcelorin comes back, that won't cost you any more $$. Don't worry about amp ratings unless you plan to use a different motor. Most people are running this system with a 4S battery. 5 and 6S is faster, but that's not the primary reason racers would go that high of voltage. Higher voltage means it requires lower amps to do the same job. That means the system runs cooler, as long as you use/gear it appropriately. In other words, if you go from a 4S setup to a 5S setup, you'll want to go to a smaller pinion gear. That way, even though the motor is now turning higher RPMs, it requires less force, or effort to do it, and all your components run cooler.

As far as the Xcelorin is concerned. You should be able to play with the settings in the software. I would suggest you set your drag brake to zero, and brakes to 50% Then, use the EPA(end point adjustment) in your transmitter to turn the brakes down until they do what you want them to do. You can also use Exponential to make them feel a little better.

If you have any more questions about the Xcelorin, ask this guy:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/members/rocketron.html
Old 03-02-2009, 07:10 PM
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y7deluxe
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Default RE: 1/8 Xcelorin vs Mamba Monster

Thanks for the great answers guys. That helps me a ton.

Can I use my Losi 2100kv motor with the mamba monster ESC? If I can, are there any issues that will pop up along the way? IE: Can I use a 6cell lipo pack with the mamba monster ESC and Losi 2100kv motor? Thanks.
Old 03-02-2009, 08:32 PM
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Default RE: 1/8 Xcelorin vs Mamba Monster

The main reason to get the castle is for the motor, their 2200KV 'Castle-Neu' motor is a world above any other similar sized motor, from Losi, Novak, etc. The ESCs, the main difference is in the voltage.
Old 03-02-2009, 08:34 PM
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Lilredmachine
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Default RE: 1/8 Xcelorin vs Mamba Monster

The 2100kv motor is only rated up to 5s according to Losi's site, but that may be because it's meant to be used with the Excelorin controller which is also only rated to 5s. 6S puts it around 45,000rpm which should be below max RPM for what is really a quite high spec motor. I'm gonna say the MMM and that motor with 6s should be okay, but as ever, frequent temp checks throughout the run are key.

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