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Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

Old 07-18-2009, 02:36 AM
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ryansiki
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Default Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

Planning on picking up a BL system for my SC10.Has anybody have one of these.Is quality good? Any weak points. I was planning on getting a Mamba Max Pro with a LRP Vector X-12 6.5Tmotor, or the Novak system mentioned above. Price is not a factor either, but I would like to save a few bucks to buy some high quality Nimh batteries(Promatch). Thanks.
Old 07-18-2009, 06:16 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

Novak Havoc has been just fine for me, the only problem I had was that with one of the traxxas digital servos (in my slash) and the fan running, BEC would occasionally drop out (overcurrent?) and cause the whole thing to reset. But when I got rid of the fan everything worked just fine.

MM Pro, try posting in that thread, there is a guy who says he got it for the beta. Tower says mid-August so hopefully it's out in time for XMAS if that is the timeframe you are looking at.
Old 07-18-2009, 08:58 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

Mamba Max or Mamba Max Pro and a Medusa 36-50. End of story. So much more adjustable than any Novak crap, more efficient, better quality, and just as smooth if not smoother than Novak crap. Sensorless brushless FTW!
Old 07-18-2009, 09:07 AM
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Matt_Gruizinga
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

sensorless arn't allowed at some tracks.
Old 07-18-2009, 09:53 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....


ORIGINAL: Matt_Gruizinga

sensorless arn't allowed at some tracks.
Good point, however if your local track doesn't follow ROAR rules by the book you should be fine.
Old 07-18-2009, 10:00 AM
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NovakTwo
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

The Novak "crap" is plenty adjustableway more programming possibilities than most users want or need:

Nine Programming Parameters

Fully programmable, on-board, user-friendly interface with nine adjustable parameters:

~Minimum Brake (10 settings from 0-27%)
~Drag Brake (10 settings from 0-27%)
~Dead Band (5 settings from 2-6%)
~Minimum Drive (5 settings from 1-5%)
~Throttle Curve (Linear and Expo)
~Brake Frequency* (7 settings from 1-8 kHz) ~Reverse*
~Motor Rotation*
~Li-Po Cut-Off
Sensored is still smoother at low throttle than non sensored. Racers use sensored setups for the precision control needed for competition. Even a slight hesitation at start-up can lose a race.

Our Havoc Sport 8.5 system can be purchased for $129 to $139, the Havoc Spec systems (with ROAR-approved motors) for $139 -$149. Our build quality, for both our escs and motors, meets or exceeds the competition.

We don't see switch harnesses falling out of our PCBs or cases flying apart when hitting a bump or un-replaceable, burned-out power capacitors, glued motor cases, etc. All signs of poor quality design and manufacturing. All of our products are made here in Irvine, CA.

You can easily locate repair/replacement parts for all of our escs and motors (on line) to do simple repairs yourself. And, we maintain the most comprehensive service replacement/exchange program in the R/C industry.
Old 07-18-2009, 10:37 AM
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Wild YFZ 450
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....


ORIGINAL: NovakTwo

The Novak ''crap'' is plenty adjustableway more programming possibilities than most users want or need:

Nine Programming Parameters

Fully programmable, on-board, user-friendly interface with nine adjustable parameters:

~Minimum Brake (10 settings from 0-27%)
~Drag Brake (10 settings from 0-27%)
~Dead Band (5 settings from 2-6%)
~Minimum Drive (5 settings from 1-5%)
~Throttle Curve (Linear and Expo)
~Brake Frequency* (7 settings from 1-8 kHz) ~Reverse*
~Motor Rotation*
~Li-Po Cut-Off
Our build quality, for both our escs and motors, meets or exceeds the competition.

So your saying your motors are built better than Medusa and Neus wich have over a 90% efficiency? Also BTW: The Castle link has all of those settings plus more.
Old 07-18-2009, 10:45 AM
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Willystylz
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

pretty much baffled how Novak can be classified as "crap"
Old 07-18-2009, 10:50 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

Wild is right, Castle systems have much more adjustability, and about broken parts, please specify which brand you are talking about.

Glued motor casings? You must be talking about crappy Feigao motors. CCNeu's and Neu's have a screw on endbell, and Medusa's only have 1 endbell and its the rear endbell. I have yet to see anyone have an issue with this, considering you dont mount the motor on the rear endbell. And even though the Medusa's rear endbell is glue on, there is a reason for that. They are high quality motors, you should never have to remove the endbell because they wont break down and need replacement parts like Novak motors.

Most Novak 1/10 ESC's requiring a fan? Talk about poor design and poor quality and poor efficiency, they need a fan to run a measly S (540 sized) brushless motor. An MM can run any Novak motor without a sensor just fine and doesn't require a fan and stays cool.

And I have yet to see a Novak system cog less at low speeds than a high quality sensorless system, again, talk about poor design and poor quality and poor programming.

Novak is also way behind, all Castle systems can be programmed 2 ways, 1 way is like programming a Novak, via transmitter, and the other way is via computer with tons of parameters, probably 3 times as many as Novak systems.


I cant wait to hear about the Mamba Max Pro becoming ROAR legal, once the MMP is ROAR legal, most smart racers would switch to the MMP for adjustability/tuning. Also, notice how sensorless systems dominate the 1/8 brushless scene, again Novak is lacking, and again Castle and Tekin and Neu and Medusa and other high end companies are dominating in quality and performance and adjustability and great prices.
Old 07-18-2009, 10:55 AM
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Wild YFZ 450
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

ORIGINAL: Krawlin

Wild is right, Castle systems have much more adjustability, and about broken parts, please specify which brand you are talking about.

Glued motor casings? You must be talking about crappy Feigao motors. CCNeu's and Neu's have a screw on endbell, and Medusa's only have 1 endbell and its the rear endbell. I have yet to see anyone have an issue with this, considering you dont mount the motor on the rear endbell. And even though the Medusa's rear endbell is glue on, there is a reason for that. They are high quality motors, you should never have to remove the endbell because they wont break down and need replacement parts like Novak motors.

Most Novak 1/10 ESC's requiring a fan? Talk about poor design and poor quality and poor efficiency, they need a fan to run a measly S (540 sized) brushless motor. An MM can run any Novak motor without a sensor just fine and doesn't require a fan.

And I have yet to see a Novak system cog less at low speeds than a high quality sensorless system, again, talk about poor design and poor quality and poor programming.

Novak is also way behind, all Castle systems can be programmed 2 ways, 1 way is like programming a Novak, via transmitter, and the other way is via computer with tons of parameters, probably 3 times as many as Novak systems.


I cant wait to hear about the Mamba Max Pro becoming ROAR legal, once the MMP is ROAR legal, most smart racers would switch to the MMP for adjustability/tuning. Also, notice how sensorless systems dominate the 1/8 brushless scene, again Novak is lacking, and again Castle and Tekin and Neu and Medusa and other high end companies are dominating in quality and performance and adjustability and great prices.
EXACTLY what krawlin said +1
Novak doesn't even have anything for 1/8 at all, Yea they have the HV pro or whatever it is called but that thing is worse than trying to run a regular 540 can in there, They use 380 sized rotors for gods sake...
Old 07-18-2009, 11:06 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

I'm not sure about their higher-end stuff......but i've heard nothing but praise about the Havoc systems. For the price they're right in there with CC's Sidewinder systems. And if Novak's making "crap". Must be some good "crap". They've been one of the biggest names in brushless motors for quite some time. They must be doing something right.

Yet another my brand is better than your brand thread. Sad.
Old 07-18-2009, 11:10 AM
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Wild YFZ 450
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....


ORIGINAL: Willystylz

Yet another my brand is better than your brand thread. Sad.
Sad? No sadly YOUR WRONG, Because I own both novak/CC and I have had a havoc system, Honestly nothing to brag about. Just about the same as my EZ run combo. Castle just blows them out of the water. I mean look at the 1/8 Novak uses 380 size rotors? What is that?
Old 07-18-2009, 11:15 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

ORIGINAL: Willystylz

I'm not sure about their higher-end stuff......but i've heard nothing but praise about the Havoc systems. For the price they're right in there with CC's Sidewinder systems. And if Novak's making ''crap''. Must be some good ''crap''. They've been one of the biggest names in brushless motors for quite some time. They must be doing something right.

Yet another my brand is better than your brand thread. Sad.
They used to be the biggest name, then along came Castle and Tekin and Neu and Hacker and Lehner and Medusa and MGM and Schulze and those brands caused some people to realize that Novak really isn't all as good as everyone seems to think.

If Novak were any better than Castle, would I go through the trouble to say things about them like this? No.....


Why is it called common sense when its so uncommon?
Old 07-18-2009, 11:19 AM
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Willystylz
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

Everyone's going to have their own personal preference. So then everyone who likes Novak products must by either ignorant, mis-informed, or never used anything else to compare it with. And not sure how the 1/8 subject has anything to do with this thread. The guy is looking for a 1/10 brushless system for his SC10. If he wants some money left over in his budget for some good batteries then I'd definitely be looking at either the CC sidewinder or Novak Havoc systems. IMO both choices can't be beat for the price.
Old 07-18-2009, 11:22 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

Ugh. here is my take. For the Average rc'er just about any system is fine.. If i had my way i would end up with a Mamba max Or MMP, and a neu 1506 motor in the sc10... but anyways.. If you have to put a fan on your system to keep it cool- it is not THAT efficient- A fan is only a bandaid to make up for inefficiency.

@Novak two, each system has its ups and downs- your systems (not trying to be rude) are not as efficient (currently) as the castle system. but they do have the advantage of sensors and such.. the startup IS smoother, But the way I see it- when (in racing) are you ever going to see that low of an rpm where the sensored system would clearly come into play. I dont know if you test your competitors products, but the castle system with the latest firmware does exceptionally well at low rpm... Still not as smooth as sensored but does it make that much of a difference? The Castle creations castle link is more advanced with more features though:

Voltage cuttoff
Timing
Throttle curve
Brake Curve
Punch Control
Updateable firmware (big plus)
Drive type
Motor type
Deadband adjustment
Drag brake.

@ WIldyzf- The 8th scale novak motors do not use 380 sized rotors.

This all comes down to personal preference- If you think you need the benifits of a sensored system Choose novak, if you want a sensorless system that might run cooler- choose castle

They are both industry leaders in there own right.

-Ben..
Old 07-18-2009, 11:27 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

ORIGINAL: brushlessboy16

Drag brake.

@ WIldyzf- The 8th scale novak motors do not use 380 sized rotors.

-Ben..
This has been gone over many times, It does use a 380 size rotor... Here look at that that doesn't look like a 540 sized to me
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19612
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXXKB1&P=7
Old 07-18-2009, 11:28 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

It uses a smaller diameter magnet. not any different in lenth compared to something like a feigao.
And i know what Im talking about.
Old 07-18-2009, 11:31 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....


ORIGINAL: brushlessboy16

It uses a smaller diameter magnet. not any different in lenth compared to something like a feigao.
And i know what Im talking about.
All it is is a Stretched 380 sized rotor...
Old 07-18-2009, 11:38 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

Novak has been designing and manufacturing electronics for R/C cars for over 31 years-so we must be doing a few things correctly. Doesn't matter what you say, non-sensored escs are not as smooth at low throttle as sensored. It's just a fact. You never see serious racers running non sensored systems.

I think that our 1/10 scale motorsfor the price-are better (and far more user-rebuildable) than any others available. it is silly to compare a $79 motor with a motor that can cost twice as much. Glad you mentioned fans. We include fans (at no extra cost) with all escs-some applications require fans, some don't. But, if you want to use it, it comes (FREE) with our systems-you don't have to spend more money to get an accessory that should have been included. Racers always use fansequipment works much more efficiently when cooled.

All of our items are designed so that users can make most simple repairs without returning the items for servicea real time, and money-saving feature. Last I checked, CC 1/10 motors are basically non-repairable. Motors that are repairable also retain more value for resale.

We are proceeding methodically with our major 2009 product releases-two more releases in our Havoc Series of products, several additional crawling releases and then we will be rolling out our nextgen racing, higher voltage products. The Ballistic motors were the first (well-received) releases of our racing products.
Old 07-18-2009, 11:38 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

which makes it NOT a 380 rotor.
Old 07-18-2009, 11:41 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....


ORIGINAL: NovakTwo

Glad you mentioned fans. We include fans (at no extra cost) with all escs-some applications require fans, some don't. But, if you want to use it, it comes (FREE) with our systems-you don't have to spend more money to get an accessory that should have been included. Racers always use fansequipment works much more efficiently when cooled.
Just as brushlessboy16 said, a fan is a bandaid for inefficiency. If your ESC's were already efficient they wouldn't need a fan...
Old 07-18-2009, 11:42 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....


ORIGINAL: brushlessboy16

which makes it NOT a 380 rotor.
Sorry that what is it ? Surely it can't be a 540 sized because of the Diameter of it?
Its a 380 sized DIAMETER rotor..
Old 07-18-2009, 11:45 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

Our 550 size 5mm shaft rotors have been specifically designed for the HV Pro motors-I don't know what your 380 comment is all about. The HV tuning rotor has a larger dia than the HV replacement rotor and is made from a different mag material to withstand higher motor temps.
Old 07-18-2009, 11:49 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....


ORIGINAL: NovakTwo

Our 550 size 5mm shaft rotors have been specifically designed for the HV Pro motors-I don't know what your 380 comment is all about. The HV tuning rotor has a larger dia than the HV replacement rotor and is made from a different mag material to withstand higher motor temps.
My 380 comment is because the Diameter of your rotor is the same as a 380 sized rotor... Why do you need to make a rotor to withstand higher motor temps? Shouldn't you just make a product that is efficient enough to run without a fan or Different mag material? I think that the efficient route would be better than adding all these things to put a band-aid over the problems.
Old 07-18-2009, 11:53 AM
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Default RE: Novak Havoc 3S with Ballistic 8.5 Motor or.....

A different material WILL improve efficiency....

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