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Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

Old 11-30-2009, 06:23 PM
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shannow
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Default Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

Hello ,

I've reacently subscribed to a nearby club which runs in offroad 1/10 . I bought a B44 with a x12 6.5t motor with a 17t spur / 84 .

The "track" is indoor and it's the bare floor of the gymnasium mostly (sometimes we go to another track outside but it's with very special events ). Usualy the tracks (daily built) are very technical for trainning purposes .

I'm having fun with the B44 especialy since I went with the schumacker mini spikes (had the original tyres on the b44 and it was awfull . It was like running on ice ). But I can't resist to the envy of trying new stuff ...

I'd like to try myself with a 2wd buggy on this track , unfortunaly nobody has one ... plenty of 4wd though ...

I'm looking for more fun , something more simple mechanicaly , something straight foward may give me more satisfaction in driving .It's what I'm hoping . The B44 feels very (too much ? ) efficient , but I don't know a bit cold in feeling perhaps .
It is true that the track is very technical , very very slippery (being a gymnasium it has this oil touch on the floor from sweet of people) .

Would something like a kyosho rb5 be fun to drive ? Do you think I should get a 9.5t in that case (the 6.5t feels overpowered for the track ) ?

Thank you very much for your time and sorry for spelling errors (frenchy inside) .
Old 11-30-2009, 07:02 PM
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rclugnut10
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

bonjour, i'd stay away from 2wd for you but you can try it if you like, i may consider foam tires or as soft as possible street tires, for the rear 2wd spins out VERY easily i'd get a B4 just because you have the B44 and i'd rather stay with one MFG its makes getting parts easier so you avoid hunting around for stuff from one company or another on multiple sites/shops

the lug
Old 11-30-2009, 07:16 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

hi, thank you for your quick answer .

Well actualy I buy stuff online and the shop has a lot of spare parts for many brands it suplies everything rb5 , xxx cr , b4 , b4 ft . The big disapointement i'"m having with the b44 is the head screw sizes ... nothing matches my facom french size set need to get special key for them ... I always get the wrong allen key / screw and tear of the head ... making the car undismountable ...

The rear spining out easily is one issue I didn't though of thanks . The track really has no grip as it is .

What about the 9.5t ? would it be more suited than the 6.5t ? The track has a long straight across the gymnasium but after that is just U turn after U turns ... with straights that goes 10ft max long (today the track had 7 U turns and 3 90° turn and a double jump )

( I proposed the rb5 because it looks very sturdy )

thanks
Old 11-30-2009, 08:11 PM
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rclugnut10
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

i have a 4600kv motor in mine which is about equal to a 9.5 and its spins out fairly easily if i'm not careful on dirt

the lug
Old 12-01-2009, 11:38 AM
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monsterbrad
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

what are you getting 2wd
it is a hole new world driving 2wd stuff you will figure that out real quick
Old 12-01-2009, 12:44 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed


ORIGINAL: shannow

...I'd like to try myself with a 2wd buggy on this track , unfortunaly nobody has one ... plenty of 4wd though ...

...something straight foward may give me more satisfaction in driving .It's what I'm hoping...inside) .
That's a novel idea; I really like the sound of it. I don't own any 2WD's yet so I don't have any real advice, but I hope you find what you're looking for.
Old 12-01-2009, 04:42 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

Thanks Well I really like the idea too lol .

I've made a step ... I ordered the rb5 (it will have iso screw with metric hex head at least !)
I don't know why but when I bought the b44 I was like try being competitive , get the proper stuff , max performance ... but with this one I'm actualy thinking more of a nice toy , not in a basher but in a very funny car ...

Now I need a motor for it ... I already have a Speed passion gt 2.0 that I can switch on it and an orion vortex servo ready for her (lipo+controler etc...) .

I focussing on a 10.5t brushless (our promotion league has limited the motors to 10.5 for 2010 season )

I don't want LRP , my x12 had its rotor loose on it's shaft after one pack of batteries ... locktited back but still not very pleasant ...

I was looking at Either Speed passion v3 or the the Team Orion vortex (in 10.5turn)


Do you have a favorite ? or any idea on the motor ? thanks
Old 12-01-2009, 07:14 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

edit : Not important
Old 12-02-2009, 04:26 AM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

Right I bought the 10.5t from speed passion . Seems very succesful around the clubs in france . And went with a 25t spur . Shouldn't be too much for this motor I hope .

Now I'm waiting for her . I will put pics of her as soon as assembled .
Old 12-07-2009, 09:20 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

Okay so I tried the RB5 today ... the 10.5t motor is on order but out of stock for a few weeks so I tried it with the 6.5t X12 ...
Well everything works fine exept turning ... it just make a huge circle of about 100ft diameter ... then I discovered that the only way to have some form of grip from the front tyres was to break . Now I've found as well that if you break on a 2wd the back goes to the front , so breaking is not a good idea . The only thing I could do was to go very very very gentle on the control and never touch the accelerator in a corner just leting the throttle off and the car going slower and slower until I was out .

The track surface is really bad I think ice could be worse but that's all . Sort of polished vinyl surface where even the B44s are slipering a lot .

I had mini pin tyres front and rear and I think (and been advised) that I should get some mini spike for the rear and staggered for the front . Could you please tell me if it should be better than what I had ?

Also how should I drive a 2wd in the corners in a optimum conditions ? You really never touch the brakes ?

thanks a lot
Old 12-07-2009, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

It seems weird that you are racing on polished tile floors with offroad cars. I don't think ANY kind of spikes are going to help you. I would try soft rubber slicks or soft foam tires.

P.S. - I think the metric system makes more sense too. I'm happy that my car and motorcycles are all metric. Disappointed when I have to go back to fractions of an inch.
Old 12-07-2009, 09:36 PM
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shannow
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

I think you are right unfortunaly even the b44 I have was drifting a lot with mini spikes last time (and the others on the track) . Presumably the club doesn't want carpet because it created problem as to who had to lay it down and get it of at the end of the session ...

thank you for the advice

yes metric is the way to go
Old 12-08-2009, 10:19 AM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed


ORIGINAL: Jeremy Z

It seems weird that you are racing on polished tile floors with offroad cars. I don't think ANY kind of spikes are going to help you. I would try soft rubber slicks or soft foam tires.

Many places in Europe, in addition to snow during the winter months, there is bad weather which turns tracks into mudpits.
So they race on all sorts of synthetic surfaces, gymnasiums to to ozite to astroturf.
It's great, because the cars stay clean.
Old 12-08-2009, 10:24 AM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed


ORIGINAL: shannow

Okay so I tried the RB5 today ... the 10.5t motor is on order but out of stock for a few weeks so I tried it with the 6.5t X12 ...
Well everything works fine exept turning ... it just make a huge circle of about 100ft diameter ... then I discovered that the only way to have some form of grip from the front tyres was to break . Now I've found as well that if you break on a 2wd the back goes to the front , so breaking is not a good idea . The only thing I could do was to go very very very gentle on the control and never touch the accelerator in a corner just leting the throttle off and the car going slower and slower until I was out .

The track surface is really bad I think ice could be worse but that's all . Sort of polished vinyl surface where even the B44s are slipering a lot .

I had mini pin tyres front and rear and I think (and been advised) that I should get some mini spike for the rear and staggered for the front . Could you please tell me if it should be better than what I had ?

Also how should I drive a 2wd in the corners in a optimum conditions ? You really never touch the brakes ?

thanks a lot

Sorry, but tire choice comes down to two things - track surface (which only you would know or be familiar with), and driver preference. Every track is different, and being that this is a U.S.-based forum most guys here are going to have no experience running indoors.
What you need to do is check around the pits and see (or ask) what the fast guys are running.

I probably use more brakes running 2wd cars than running 4wd, but it sounds like you need to work on your set-up as well. Try different springs and oil weights till you hit on a combo that works. Again, see what you're fellow racers are running.
Old 12-08-2009, 11:48 AM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

Thank you for the reply it is very useful .

I think you are right unfortunaly , i seem to have a weird floor that nobody has in usa

The problem is that no one runs a 2wd here lol the ones that did gave up . But I find it a shame because the 2wd is a much better school for learning I think ( more fun too when there's grip ) but this indoor track is putting me off . Pity I much prefer the RB5 chassis layout / body then the B44 lol . I'll try to set the machine as unstable as possible and make it a cornering machine (the caster going from 30deg to 25deg etc) and see what happens ...

Edit: I saw and I really think that the tyre choice is 90% of the car settings (in terms of effect it will have), no ?
Old 12-08-2009, 02:27 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

Yes 2wd takes a while to master, but once you do 4wd is a breeze.
I'm waiting on the hotbodies D2 to come out fall 2010 to give 2wd a shot.
I have a 2wd B4 but it's pretty much in pieces to use as parts for my other 2wd RC's.
Old 12-08-2009, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

I think it is more interesting to drive a 2wd a 4wd feels a lot like a touring car , especialy on our track which is dead flat ...

What I really curse is the fact that the club only opens 2h/week which for a beginner that makes a lot of mistake in buying the wrong stuff etc is a patience killer ...
Like now for example , i've gotten a new pair of tyre and set the caster at 25degrees (30 before) and now I have to wait until next monday to see what happensv... in the mean time I have no way of checking , or having a slight hint because I can't find an open surface with a similar floor ...
Old 12-08-2009, 04:05 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed




ORIGINAL: shannow
I saw and I really think that the tyre choice is 90% of the car settings (in terms of effect it will have), no ?




Yes and no.
If the car is set up properly, then yes tires will make all the difference.
If the car is set up poorly, then there is no tire that will make a difference. The car will still be junk.

As far as your caster settings go, changing to a block with less caster will mean that your steering will be more reactive (it will react quicker) - but it will not give you more steering.
If you want more steering, try adjusting your camber. Lay the tiresIN at 2-degrees to 4-degrees, as this will alow the outside tire to have better bite in the corners (instead of being rolled over on the sidewall).

Old 12-08-2009, 05:37 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

Okay

So I've it put on my DIY bed setting ...

Front camber was 4 deg one side 5 the other (i've changed that on the spot at the club going from 0 to whatever i've found toaday didn't change a thing in driving so left it lol)
-> I've set it at 2deg each

Toe at the front was 0deg right and 1deg left in toe in
-> I've set the Front toe out by 1deg each side

Rear was 2deg camber on the left 5deg on the right
->I've set it at 3deg camber for both

Left the rear toe in STD as is a shimmer buisness

Might make the chassis feel a bit more healthy I guess but I doubt it will change anything to my "it goes straight on in the curves"
Old 12-08-2009, 06:24 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed


Personally, I'd set it up to run way more camber in the front than the rear (I'd suggest something like 1-2 degrees rear)
If you have too much in the rear you'll just wear the tires out on the inside edges.
On the front I'd plan on cranking in more camber, at the track, if you're looking for even more steering. Oftentimes I use up to 4 degrees indoors.

A touch of toe-out is good, it makes the car track straighter on the straightaways.
Old 12-08-2009, 06:47 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

Thanks I will modify it to 4deg camber at the front and 2 at the rear

Don't worry about the wear the track is so slipery that the tyres will last for ever litteraly .

By the way at the moment I have put mini spike/front and mini-pin/rear is it okay ? I have ordered some stagger rib for the front would it be more effective than the mini spike ?


thank you again
Old 12-08-2009, 09:04 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed


ORIGINAL: shannow

Thanks I will modify it to 4deg camber at the front and 2 at the rear

Don't worry about the wear the track is so slipery that the tyres will last for ever litteraly .

By the way at the moment I have put mini spike/front and mini-pin/rear is it okay ? I have ordered some stagger rib for the front would it be more effective than the mini spike ?


thank you again
It's not as much about wear, but about putting down the entire "contact patch" of the tire. You want the rear camber set so that they entire tire wears evenly and comes in contact with the track under acceleration.

Tire choice is going to come down to what works for you and the surface you're running on.
My advice is to have several options to choose from, take the car out with one set, change to another, and keep changing until you find a combination that works for YOU.
Old 12-08-2009, 09:37 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed


ORIGINAL: cool-joe

Sorry, but tire choice comes down to two things - track surface (which only you would know or be familiar with), and driver preference. Every track is different, and being that this is a U.S.-based forum most guys here are going to have no experience running indoors.
What you need to do is check around the pits and see (or ask) what the fast guys are running.

I probably use more brakes running 2wd cars than running 4wd, but it sounds like you need to work on your set-up as well. Try different springs and oil weights till you hit on a combo that works. Again, see what you're fellow racers are running.
Funny, I use more brakes in 4wd because running brakes that hit hard doesnt cause it to spin out as much as a 2wd. 4wd is much more direct. If you can drive a 2wd stadium truck or buggy, you can drive anything.

Electricguy, don't hold your breath on the Hot bodies D2. Rumor is HB has stopped working on the car and has no plans to release it.
Old 12-08-2009, 10:52 PM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed


ORIGINAL: Chris_RC

Funny, I use more brakes in 4wd because running brakes that hit hard doesnt cause it to spin out as much as a 2wd. 4wd is much more direct. If you can drive a 2wd stadium truck or buggy, you can drive anything.
Maybe I didn't say it right, and maybe you misunderstood me.
I meant I use the brakes "more often," not that I use more brakes. Because of the pushy nature of 2wd cars, I have found that you tend to need to use the brakes to help the car rotate through the corners.
Old 12-09-2009, 05:22 AM
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Default RE: Going from 4wd to 2wd advices needed

Well the rear tyre has a little sphere aspect ... what I mean is that on the rear tyre only a thin band in the middle of about 1/3 of the with of the tyre touches the floor . So basicaly no matter what camber I put my contact surface is the same (within +/-5degree at least) . Is it normal ?

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