Access

Just b'cos they are sealed doesn't mean they are waterproof. Maybe water resistant but that's it. Remember quite often in the wild you are not dealing with clean, pristine, or pure water. It's full of things like dirt, particulate matter, salt, ions, corrosion, etc. And then also possibly condensation.

"Tim smith used them to set speed records enough said."
Just b'cos one guy used them to do one thing doesn't mean they are in any way necessary to do the same. The batteries are OEM anyways. How could anyone say with any honesty they are better than Thunderpower, etc. I was at the ISC and there were pleanty of people using Zippys there too and I know one of them did come in first for his vehicle class. The type of batteries you use to get going that fast are really pretty far removed or independent from the problems you have aerodynamics, tires, finding a smooth place to run, etc.

Also how can one explain that the same battery from these guys costs significantly more than it did 5 years ago. Name one other brand where the price of an equivelent battery has risen consistently. By 30%-50%.

overrev

Access I run thunderpowers and they cost just as much as my maxamps and the maxamps are just as good. Like I said if you don't like the don't buy them. And the batteries used to set those records where 5250 for the 2s record and 3250 for the 4's. Look it up in the drag race section of this forum under tim smith.

qoisdhc oqina

My Feedback: (-1)

Seriously who cares if they were used to set a record or two?And who else was in the class?What were the specs on their batteries?What was the speed?What tires did they run?How long was the run up?Ground clearance?Weight of the cars?Motors?Esc's?Wing angles?Show me they were exactly the same, and they used the same batteries and i'll care than. And me and my friends run zippy, or his bandit and my pkz corsair, turnigy and rhino for my detta.They all work great, no problems.I bet if i said i used a zippy to set a record i would be called a liar, because no one can beat max amps super crazy world record.What batteries to nic case use for his world records?? Enough said.

J.D.T

a couple years ago there were very few companies you could trust mah and c rating wise, maxamps was one of them, guys running high dollar airplanes and heli's ain't gonna worry about $50-100 when they run the risk of falling out of the sky so they buy the premium lines. Around here we get lucky, most guys only want to put 100 hours on there brushless motors and lipo batteries, I have bought many a used motor and battery as its not critical to me, 4900 trakpowers for $40, I'll take that all day long.
The boat guys are even worse, they have all been burned (some literally) by cheap batteries in the past, when your smacking down a 200 amp draw on your lipo you better be sure you can trust the c rating otherwise you puff and sometimes burn.
Don't forget just five years ago guys were paying $35 for a set of nimh compaired to racers spending $135 for only a slightly better version of the exact same battery, you could get to the mall in a chevette or a corvette, depending on your needs and perception of the cost to value ratio its purely in the eye of the beholder. Me I'm a mustang guy so I would rather walk LOL.

Access

Have you done any formal / quantitative testing for the maxamps to demonstrate this? ie.
http://access.time.angelfire.com/bat...t_data_01.html

And again can you show me a battery brand where an equivalent battery has risen in price over the last few years? I know b'cos in 2007, I got a 3s, 4000mAH from them $94.99. Now, to buy the same battery would cost me $149.99. I still have the e-mail receipt.

If you want to pay an extra $55. on a battery that used to cost $95. (and the OEM cost is probably lower) then you are the one that is a total fool. All these guys do is re-package and re-label OEM batteries, is that worth $50.+ to you? Their performance is not quantitatively proven (or measured), they refuse to even rate their batteries like others or give out a continuos 'C' rating like everyone else does, it's a shoddy operation in so many ways yet they charge top dollar. They put some money into ads on sites like this, but otherwise they're not notable at all.

plasma 327

+1 ^
Maxamps has nothing showing any validity of testing or otherwise to warrant these prices.. AS stated by Access, THey won't even give ratings "c" or otherwise.. For that kind of money I would expect details, specs, etc...
My locall racers laughed at me for paying the prices I paid for the proteks(1/2 the cost of maxamps) but I wanted the added security of hard shell Lipos..

God Speed

Personall prefence...

Slo-V Flyer

Funny, I bought my 3s 5000 lipo about 2 years ago as well, and at the time it was in the $130+ price range, and it DID show and was categorized by its C rating, which for me 20C was what I could afford. I haven't been back on the maxamps site, but I didn't realize they aren't even showing the C rating anymore. That is definitely not something I'd be willing to guess at. Then again I just thought about it, and maybe they realize that no one would be < 20C battery for 1/10th trucks etc and so that is what they sell and so they don't feel the need to advertise that anymore. Kind of like Nimh batteries, you never see their C rating listed, yet most people who research them find that they are usually good for 10C discharge on average.

Who knows what it is, but I'm not buying from them, for now.

nitrosportsandrunner

i recently got a 2s 30c 5000mah lipo off ebay(hong kong special) for $30 shipped! it arrived in about 2 weeks. what a deal!
as for "C" rating, i am sure that these cheap lipos may not stack up to more expensive brands. while the lipo i bought my be rated at 30c, its true output may be alittle less. but who cares? it only cost $30 and will power my brushed short course truck for a full 30minutes or more! a $30 nimh pack would be lucky to get more than 10 minutes!

Access

And look at how much that pack costs today. $180.

Slo-V Flyer

Hah, yah I am on the site right now. It's weird, they really need to explain what their prices are about. I can understand they customize the packs to whatever you need, like shape, size, etc., is made to match the vehicle, choice of connectors. But really, $170.99 for a 3s 5250 mah and not stating the C rating (so am I to assume it's at least 20C?) is kind of stretching it. Plus with independent tests showing that their lipos are kind of on the low end of the top 10 or so tested - most of which cost less and out performed the maxamps.

I wish someone from Maxamps would come on here and say their piece.

plasma 327

I just e-mailed Maxamps to see if they would come to rcu and try to justify their pricing.
We will see if they do

God Speed..

overrev

If you read it does state c rating and battery size just click on the battery you are looking at. To me there is no need to argue this has been done to many times, buy what you want but there no need to bash other companies just because you do not like it or want it.

plasma 327

There has been no argument... It is a simple case of how they justify there pricing for lipo's that are not any better than most other manufactures.. It is a question of why?

God Speed

strtzpmp

i was new to lipo a few months ago and purchased my first. ive always thought the best batteries had highers mah rating and just went on that. i bout the 3s limit for the vxl system which were venom 3s2p 20c 6400mah lipos i bought 3 of them for $80 eachthinkin i was going to be set...now look at me i have fried more escs and motors than a monkey only to find out it was my batteries not being strong enough...now im on the market looking on ebay, got2gorc has 4s 50-60c 4000mah lipo 120a-200a disharge peaks and only charges 57 bucks and 2s same rating 5000-6000mah for about the same price, should have bought those instead. so now i have to buy everything except for a tx/rx and servo...****ty considering i had money then and now i dont...but i have gained much experience and knowledge on the way....i also want to get a 36v dewalt for a123's and build a 4s or 6s pack and a rx pack for 80 bucks...not bad considering the runtime/charge rates and other pluses on life batteries

austinelse

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Guys!

Austin here from MaxAmps.com

I read through all of your concerns. I understand your concerns and I would feel the same way if I did not know all of the information. I guess the main question here is why are our packs more expensive than another pack on the market. And the second question is why do we not rate our packs by "C" rate. I will do my best to answer both of those questions.

1. Why are MaxAmps packs more expensive?

A. We build the packs here in the USA so our costs to build the packs are much higher than having them built overseas. It literally costs us 20 times as much labor to build a pack here.
B. The quality of our cells are much higher and our wholesale costs are much more expensive. They are not OEM! We are the only manufacturer offering the cells that we offer and they are specifically built to our specs.
C. We offer a 3 year 300 cycle warranty. If you purchase a pack elsewhere and it lasts 5 cycles, you may be out of luck.
D. We water seal all of our packs(this has already been mentioned)
E. We offer 7 day a week USA based customer service for all your technical questions.
F. The components that we use in the packs are all brand name including the deans wire, plugs, and even the kapton tape inside the pack.
G. All cells are balanced and matched before we build the packs.
H. The pack comes fresh from our shop and we get our cell shipments every 3 weeks so your cells are guaranteed to be 3 weeks old or less.

As you know, the amount of time a pack sits on the shelf is a big deal. If you buy elsewhere, your pack could have set for 2 years before you received it.

There are many other reasons and I would be happy to talk to any of you personally about this over the phone. Feel free to give me a call anytime on our toll free number at 888-654-4450.

2. Why we do not use a "C" rate?

We use a surge watt rating, just the same as the motor manufacturers so that you can match up your motor to your batteries. Its a much simpler way to rate the packs and we have a detailed description of how we arrive at that Surge Watt rating. The "C" rate is meaningless because there is no standard for testing it. Other manufacturers just pick a number out of the sky and there is no way to prove it otherwise. Its that simple. We have a section on the website explaining this in great detail.

Thanks for taking the time to read through all of this if you did We also offer a free membership program on the website where you can save up to 20% off of your orders. Give us a shot and you will see the difference in performance, service, and cycle life. Our packs are guaranteed to last 300 cycles. We also received the best battery award in RC Car Action, RC Driver, and RC Car magazines. Castle Creations, Traxxas, HPI, Novak, Tekin, and many other industry leaders all use our packs for testing.

I am confident that we offer the best value on the market. Not the best price, but the best value. Some people buy packs based on price rather than value but it usually ends up costing them more in the end due to short cycle life and lack of warranty coverage.

Best Regards,

Austin Else
www.MaxAmps.com
888-654-4450

Access

I'm telling you I'd bet RC hobbyists are not their primary source of income anymore. When I was at the UAVSI show I saw so many of the hobby companies. Castle. Hitec. etc. Unlike these guys they sell batteries so they have to raise prices across the board. Maybe they grew up on us hobbyists but now they have moved to 'greener pastures' elsewhere.

'low-end', and when I say low-end, I mean under $100,000. UAVs have really taken off. I saw a ton of companies all trying to prototype the same thing, basically unit-level UAVs or UVs based on hobby-grade stuff (T-rex's, E-maxx's, etc.) The money isn't really in the UAV itself b'cos there are too many companies trying to do the same thing (and only a few of these guys will get the big military contract that makes their company viable). Right now its in the vendors that sell the components that go into the UAVs/UVs, the batteries, the motor controllers, the motors, basically every bit and piece of the vehicle. There's a bunch of other stuff in a UAV but no need to get into that here. UAVSI was an interesting show and very insightful about the direction things are heading in. The stories I got talking to people were remarkably similar.

Access

I'll let you guys deal with most of this but here is one quick point. Hobbycity has that 'live stock' feature where you see the stock number go from positive to negative and back and orders are made and then shipped out. For the popular batteries it doesn't seem likely that they're sitting on the shelves for 2 years. It seems more like they are constantly coming in and selling out.

Austin do you have any formal quantitative testing on your cells that you could release? Discharge curves, etc.

http://panasonic.com/industrial/incl..._HHR300SCP.pdf
Normally an industry-level vendor puts out something like the above. This is an older type of battery but just an example.

austinelse

My Feedback: (1)

Access,

Did you take the time to read through my previous post?

We have all the testing equipment here and have tons of discharge graphs. What specific cell and discharge rate are you looking for? It may be best for you to just do a google search for discharge curves. There are quite a few 3rd parties out there that have tested our packs and have the data available. We are constantly testing cells from all different manufacturers and we have found that the curve that comes from the factory rarely matches up with our testing.

Bottom line is that we guarantee the best performance in your vehicle or you get your money back. We offer the best packs on the market and the readers of RC Car Action, RC Driver, RC Car, Traxxas, HPI, Castle, Novak, Tekin, and many industry pros agree. They are not the cheapest, but they are the best.

To address the other part of your post. Some battery retail sites purchase 2+ year old stock packs and scratch/dent cells from some of the manufacturers at a huge discount. Then they resell them as new packs. That is why they are out of products sometimes and have tons of it other times.

To address your UAV assumptions. You would be "betting" wrong. More than 99% of our customers are radio control hobby enthusiasts. Every person that works here races weekly on our track and we really understand and care about the hobby.

Best Regards,

Austin Else
www.MaxAmps.com

redfisher1974

How come you didnt send a pack in for big squids lipo shootout?

JAM MaxAmps

Actually that question should be directed toward Brian of Big Squid RC. It was his decision to not include us in the test because we advertise on his site and none of the other battery companies do. He felt that people in general would think that because we are a paid advertiser that it would influence the test and the testers. We did offer and they declined.

Jason

redfisher1974

This is from big squids site,

First off, thanks for the props Scott, they are few and far between. Now to get to the crux of your email. Having a MaxAmps battery in one of our battery shootouts would be ratings gold. Out of all the emails we get, MaxAmps and Zippy are by far the two most requested brands that people want to see tested. MaxAmps is the biggest name in Lipo, and we’d love to see them in a future shootout. From speaking to the guys at MaxAmps, they put a tremendous amount of time into testing and building their batteries, and their reputation for customer service is a good one, all of which equals a great contender in a shootout. At BigSquid we have a great deal of respect for the crew at MaxAmps and we will not include them in a shootout without their permission. To the people that want to see MaxAmps in a shootout I would recommend giving them a call to let them know. They are good people there and I’m sure they’d like to hear your feedback.

Access

So could you for instance post any direct comparison tests you have done between your packs and, say, Thunderpower packs or another brand? Basically the different top brands on the market today?

Or point us to where we can find such data? Anyone can state opinions but I want to see it documented, ie. a test with the same equipment, same temperature, etc. one of your packs vs. a thunderpower pack side by side.

JAM MaxAmps

Sorry but that's not how it went down.

Jason

redfisher1974

No need to be sorry, Just something I noticed and wanted to question. Well off to work later.

Access

If both sides want to do it, then there shouldn't be any problems with getting it done. The next time Brian does a shootout can you guys make sure Maxamps is in it?